But maybe that's just what he wants us to think!

A vocal minority there think that even though their beloved rebbe is dead, they think he really didn't "die" but is in sort of stasis and will come back to reveal he is the King Messiah. — schopenhauer1

I think the same thing happened to Shia Islam. They're waiting for some guy.

That's interesting. If you mean that they're more inspiring to us for being metaphors, I think I understand. But is their effect on us, or some of us, what makes them "holy"? — Ciceronianus

No, they're sometimes metaphors for what's inside you. Jesus screams on the cross and then asks why God has abandoned him. It's odd that they kept that detail in there after all these years.

And that's just one line. Christianity is amazing.

Perhaps he'll look like a hero to his fans. He looks kind of silly to me at the moment.

The problem is that the more one... treats them as metaphorical, the less "holy" they seem to be — Ciceronianus

I think it's the opposite.

Sure. Most humans are crazy, belligerent, and stupid as hell.

I wasn't attacking you. Sorry you took it that way.

:up: A cult is a new religion as opposed to a sect, which is a subdivision of an old religion. In the NT, Jesus is depicted as bringing his message specifically to Jews (he calls gentiles the offspring of vipers). So it seems like he is initiating a sect of Judaism.

Eventually Christianity became a true cult as its Jewish members had more in common with gentile Christians than with their fellow Jews.

What they actually expected was a warlord who would throw off Roman domination.
— frank

This is what Jesus' Jewish followers would have understood based on messianic tradition. What we find in the gospels is something quite different. — Fooloso4

:meh:

Self-advocacy groups sometimes over-reach — Bitter Crank

Every little thing comes down to money. Companies scramble to present a PC image so as to avoid losing their share of the market. That's why I, a healthcare worker, have been trained to be sensitive to trans issues.

Sniff all you want. There's nothing you can do about it.

You asked about the phrase Kingdom of Heaven. If comes from Matthew. Do you have evidence to the contrary? — Fooloso4

This is what you said:

"The Messiah was to bring about the Kingdom of God (Heaven) on Earth."

What caught my attention was your reference to heaven, as if they expected the Messiah to bring heaven to earth.

That wouldn't have made sense to anyone in the 1st Century. That's your own misunderstanding of the gospel account.

What they actually expected was a warlord who would throw off Roman domination.

Reference to "the Jesus cult" suggests you have a particular theory of the early Jesus movement that you accept. Based on what? — Fooloso4

It's frequently referred to as the Jesus cult.

The expectation of the coming of the messiah does not originate with the followers of Jesus. — Fooloso4

Yea. It's really obvious that your knowledge of the Jesus cult doesn't come from religion scholarship. It comes from Matthew. :lol:

Note that Heaven is in parentheses. Matthew is the only one who who uses the term kingdom of heaven. More common is kingdom of God, which Matthew uses as well. There is no consensus as to what the difference may be. — Fooloso4

This is what I suspected. You're using the gospel account as a source for the expectations of Jesus' followers prior to his death, and then you argue that we can't rely on that same account because it's a post hoc narrative.

You probably just need to stick with religion scholars.

The Messiah was to bring about the Kingdom of God (Heaven) on Earth — Fooloso4

Heaven on earth? Where are you getting that from?

. I don't know about Jerusalem or Judea. — Ciceronianus

The Sadducees were hellenized.

A Platonist take on the teachings of Jesus would be found in the Johannine literature, specifically the Gospel of John. What does everyone else think of this? I think the connections are logical. — Dermot Griffin

He was probably one of a number of preachers who were associated with the Essenes and apocalyptically minded Jews.

The world his teachings spread in was heavily hellenized, so we don't need Jesus himself to have been influenced by Plato.

Schopenhauer suggest that freedom of choice – what we would regard as freedom of will – is a characteristic of inferior entities. — spirit-salamander

Schopenhauer was a hard determinist.

The pandemic is still going. Groan.

I didn't read it all either, but the first part is line with Schopenhauer and neoplatonism. Where you say "death" read "satisfaction.". Same thing.

You say "pretending" and "masquerading" I think that's your take on what's happening.

Everybody else says "trans", to indicate how they self identify and how they want to be addressed.

In America anyway, this is pretty mainstream, if still a little awkward sometimes.

Money is power.

The golden ratio is irrational. This was a heavily guarded secret for Pythagoreans. They would burn me alive or something like that for revealing it.

Yea, it's just important for young black females to see someone like themselves up there among the elder statesmen. The rest of the concerns are minor.

Mind your own business Canadian. :grin:

I'm not seeing your point.

Only with those who want war and have imperial aspirations. — ssu

Who else would you appease?

. If that's appeasement then, I rather that than war. — Manuel

History teaches us that appeasement frequently invites further aggression and war.

NATO's not going anywhere regardless of what should happen. What I fear is that the hawks inside this situation think that using diplomacy to settle this is the equivalent of appeasement. — Manuel

What you were describing is appeasement.

What do you mean?

The R-36 missile was deployed in 1988 and has continued up until now in service with Russia (to be replaced with the RS-26 Sarmat). — ssu

Yea. They still had staff and "in service" equipment, but they weren't prepared to actually use it. Not sure why this is important to pursue, though.

Actually no. The ONLY thing they DID preserve was their nuclear deterrence. — ssu

Not after the collapse of the USSR.

And Russia has had the ability to cause similar harm to New York and Washington DC since 1949. — ssu

Russia's nuclear capability went into decline after the cold war. Whatever capability they have now is recently aquired.

Appeasement is also dangerous, as I think we'll see as this unfolds.

"Those who deny freedom to others, deserve it not for themselves; and, under a just God, can not long retain it."

--Abraham Lincoln

What can one black woman do in a group of ten white people? — Agent Smith

What ten white people? :chin:

There are no "good guys" in world affairs, or it's very rare. There are good people and groups and acts, and many horrific ones too. — Manuel

I think recognizing that is the best way to see the world clearly.

However, I'm fully aware that I could be called a coward or lacking a spine or convictions. It's a matter of temperament. — Manuel

I think it's more a matter of how much a person wants to reduce to the world to a cartoon. Germany instigated war in the 1940s so Germans are evil. Russia killed 40 million of its own people in the early 20th century so Russians are evil.

On the other hand, pointing out real victims of real crimes: that I can get behind.

I don't know, people differ a lot in politics. I tend to avoid thinking in terms of "good guys" or "our side" vs. "bad guys" or "them". It's just a different set of (very often) elite interests. — Manuel

I agree. The mechanics of world events is fascinating to me. I just thought you were anti-American because you said you agreed with one of the more staunchly anti-American characters on the forum.

I think I misunderstood that.

Putin may be many things, but he isn't stupid, much less suicidal. If he invades Ukraine, it's game over. — Manuel

What do you mean? What do you think will happen?

Nevertheless, if he doesn't put troops in the border, Ukraine may feel it could join NATO without consequence, seeing Russia doesn't seem to mind. — Manuel

So you think he's just going to leave 130,000 troops on the border from now on? To keep Ukraine from joining NATO?

I'm interested in why you and I see such a different world, so thanks for responding.

It's not black or white. We can say things clearly: Ukraine has a right to self-defense, Russia has a right to safe borders, what NATO is doing is extremely dangerous and leaves Russia with little option. — Manuel

What is NATO doing that's extremely dangerous? I honestly don't know.

The US military has had the ability to level Moscow for the last 50 years. They could do it any time day or night. They don't need access to Ukraine for that. Why is Putin suddenly feeling threatened?