I'm no medical professional, but maybe you should see a psychologist? I'm not sure your experiences necessarily describe medical depression. — Philosophim

Im already assessed. Bipolar/depression. But it all has passed. Feeling good nowadays.

Ask god maybe? — I like sushi

Again you are suggesting theists are lunatics.

Ask god maybe? It’s clear you cannot read or simply don’t understand what you’re reading (which amount the same thing). I won’t be responding any more to anything you say - other than by reporting it to mods — I like sushi

Ooooh... "Im gonna tell the mods..." You should actually read the links you give before you post. No genes are involved as the cause. For the third time, the expression is involved. That something different as the genes are involved. Its as simple as that. Bye bye!

I guess I shouldn’t be surprised when the same person calls science ‘dogmatic’. — I like sushi

What about the central dogma of molecular biology?

You can do the research or keep spouting crap that will likely get you removed from this forum. Your choice. — I like sushi

Then where is the proof. The link you've shown clearly doesn't provide evidence isn't proof. It, very sneaky and thoughtfull, talks about expression. Just reoeating genes are involved doesn't actually involve them.

If distance doubles every generation you would be right. But it doesn't
— EugeneW
Again I don't know what you mean here. Lo — universeness

I mean if we can double the distance of one lightsecond traveled each generation then we could get there.

Just imagine. We have found some antimatter device or laser energy drive. How much energy it costs to accelerate to say 1/2 to the speed of light. Takes about 5 years to travel to Alpha Centauri. For sure there is an habitable planet there. Say the spaceship has a mass of 10exp5 kg. What's the kinetic energy at half light speed. 1/2x10exp5x10exp5x10exp5=1/2×10exp15 joules. Okay, an ounce antimatter suffices. Costs 62.5 trillion dollars per gram. Thats about 6250 trillion dollars... Not million, not billion, but trillion. Dream on universeness...

Not only are you a big fearty but you are a pessimistic one. I don't subscribe to 'The end is nigh — universeness

Then why you're so eager to go to the planets? We have everything here.

The fact that there are genes that correspond to psychopathic behaviour is OLD news. Very old news. — I like sushi

Yeah... Elementary preons are involved in genes too. Blame it on preons...

Just read: the expression of genes.

Right, I think they didn't inform you of what it was supposed to do. Depression medication isn't supposed to make you high or happy. Depression is usually about not being able to function or do anything about your emotional state. You can be sad or bored, but not depressed. Depression is where doing anything outside of minimal effort is incredibly difficult. If for example you feel you need an emotional high to do anything, that's an overcompensation for depression. — Philosophim

I don't know if you've ever been severely depressed, but being depressed doesn't disable your functioning. The picture of laying in bed all day avoiding people is a stereotype only. I just kept on working pretending to feel alright. Which depresses even more. I'm sure there are depressed people lying in bed all day avoiding contact. I had such a period too. It's not about not being able to manage your emotions or feelings. It's about a detachment from a world you didn't ask for. Getting a buzz is temporary. You can say the same of antidepressants, that the bad buzz is only there at the start, but after that bad buzz what happens? Feeling better? Then that antidepressants function as an inducer of the bad feeling with the goal to set that as the level against which your subsequent feelings are measured. Just like after a dose of X you feel high and afterwards you feel down, after you take Y and feeling down(er), and afterwards feeling good because you dont feel down anymore. Luckily I always have manic periods to look forward to. These periods ("episodes") are rare and maybe on the verge of mania or psychosis but very intense. If you would always be depressed or know for sure it would never go away, it would be quite depressing! Managing depression is not the problem, it's the depression!

You're stretching/straining that logic elastic to the limit again EugeneW. Extinction on one planet won't matter so much if we exist on thousands of them. — universeness

Even then we will go extinct soon. What you prefer. Going extinct for sure on all planets within 1000 years or surviving on Earth until the end?

A yes. Eugenics... Intelligence genes, crime genes, depression genes, stupidity genes, etc. Seems you have too much of the last... The only thing genes to is coding for proteins.

Read:

The underlying molecular mechanisms have remained unknown but several previous studies suggest that abnormal glucose metabolism and opioidergic neurotransmission contribute to violent offending and psychopathy. Here we show using iPSC-derived cortical neurons and astrocytes from six incarcerated extremely antisocial and violent offenders, three nonpsychopathic individuals with substance abuse, and six healthy controls that there are robust alterations in the expression of several genes and immune response-related molecular pathways which were specific for psychopathy. In neurons, psychopathy was associated with marked upregulation of RPL10P9 and ZNF132, and downregulation of CDH5 and OPRD1. In astrocytes, RPL10P9 and MT-RNR2 were upregulated. Expression of aforementioned genes explained 30–92% of the variance of psychopathic symptoms. The gene expression findings were confirmed with qPCR. 

It's about gene expression. Not about genes.

So what causes a body to cease remaining at rest? A force acting upon it — Philosophim

Don't you mean a force not working on it. Absence of force is the cause of remaining at rest. The absence of force is the absence of cause, though absence of cause as a force can cause as a non-force.

Any reason why you didn't try to follow the medical advice and try it for a few weeks? — Philosophim

I tried a few days, despite it made me feel worse after the first take. I couldn't imagine that it made me feel better after taking it longer. If I had known for sure I might have done it. Like smoking gets good after one packet only.

You miss the main practical point I made. The more planets/space stations etc we exist on, the harder it is to make us extinct. If we are all on one planet then we can be made extinct quite easily. — universeness

We get extinct not that easily. But if on all these planets we introduce the western way we'll get extinct easily even there.

What??

I have to admit, you have a wild fantasy, uni!
— EugeneW

Don't get carried away by a little too much fantasy though!
— EugeneW — universeness

I don't put a limit on your fantasies. You can fantasize whatever and how much you like. Just keep an eye on what's fantasy and what's real.

Could you rephrase that please? — Watchmaker

If consciousness, the soul, the mental, is already present at the fundaments then every attempt to rationally explain it is doomed.

The primal fear which I am convinced is the substrate of all theism that you display in your typings — universeness

But fear of what? We can boldly push and go where no man has gone before, but space being the final frontier "but it's made in a Hollywood basement", as you know the song goes.

Don't worry ya big fearty, we have lots of time, we like reproducing. Maybe after we exist outside our planet and inside our solar system we can build generational ships or many many hops between space stations that we built between here and Proxima! — universeness

Dream on spacer! What if we have arrived on that faraway planet? Will we mess it up again? What if every planet is colonized?

We are talking past each other again. You suggested my suggestions for paintings were mere fantasy and I was basically saying so what? are you suggesting that only theists can fantasize? That's all I was saying. — universeness

Where did I say or suggest that? Everyone can fantasize. Like in a painting of genes to which strings are attached making the human puppet move. This is how Dawkins sees humans. It's his fantasy. He claims though thag this is reality, and that's the danger. Thinking your fantasies are real or can ever can be realized.

Yeah, especially your fantasies of god(s). — universeness

Gods are no fantasies. Only in your mind.

Some people can be psychopaths due to a gene. — I like sushi

Of course. Psychopathic genes... Dream on.

Minds that seek truth emerged from forces that know nothing of truth. — Watchmaker

I dont agree. Understanding is not rational. The conscious minds appearing in the course of evolution know already bout the truth. Ratio alone can't explain the truth.

Don't be such a big fearty, ya big fearty! :rofl: — universeness

A fearty farty forty! What fear?

A dual duel? — Watchmaker

Yes! :smile: Duelle and Duette dueling already there. Love and hate. Just look at the comment exchanges here on TPF...

Go play with someone else on your low level moron — I like sushi

Look who's talking! You've looked in the mirror too much! "Now that guy/woman is a moron". Conflating yourself with everyone else. Saying that you're interested in theism from a human perspective while secretly thinking they're crazy. Bye bye!

While I agree that drugs do not take away the cause, they can take away the effect. — Philosophim

Yes, they can take away the effect. The effect being the feeling of depression. Most antidepressants, like the "wonder drug" prozac, get a grip (directly or indirectly) on neurotransmitters. Like noradrenalin or serotonin. I took quite a few different ones (I'm bipolar officially... Hooray!). To no avail. They made me feel worse. The advice was to continue swallowing them. The positive effect would take a few weeks. I didn’t do that. Benzo's and other stuff work better, but they won't prescribe it. Your memory is supposedly impaired. Which is true, but only if you stop abruptly. Which I did. The supplier died. Then hell has arrived. I couldn't even remember how to buy a train ticket at the automat or how to order them with the computer (payments with bitcoins are asked and I wasn't able to understand or even buy them in the first place! I really didn't and that's hard to realize now) Didn’t sleep for 4 months. Literally. Epileptic kinds of bodily shocks. Hallucinations, on the verge of psychosis, but still realizing they are fantasies. Almost every night these thoughts appeared, shining a scary light on reality. Luckily I have very high compensation to the depressions.

Are we talking reality's atoms, or reality's degrees of freedom? ... and thus its invariances ... and thus its structural dichotomisation into its global spacetime invariances (the structure of its Lorentz, Poincare and even de Sitter symmetry groups) and its local gauge invariances (starting with the Standard Model's SU(3)xSU(2)xU(1))? — apokrisis

You got the basic symmetry wrong. It's a SU(3)XSU(3)XSU(1) symmetry.

The quantum collapse issue highlights that fact. Yet as I have argued, it also shows us exactly where the epistemic incision must be made. — apokrisis

The epistemic cut can be made wherever you like.

Panpsychism is the pathological metaphysics that arises when you try to reduce all existence to materialism, and wind up including "consciousness" as "another face of matter" — apokrisis

Why you add "pathological"? It's the material metaphysics that's pathological.

Push for merging humans with technology to extend lifespan. Push for global unity of our species. Push for developing technology that will allow us to leave this planetary nest as a prudent policy of further protection against the possibility of our extinction. — universeness

These pushes are the causes of our future extinction. We could prevent that extinction by stop pushing. What if we arrive on another nest? An Earth-like planet. Then the pushing starts all over?

I don't think that the natural evolution of human consciousness has yet given us any ability to decipher the origin story of our Universe. I think this is one of the main reasons why most people take the very easiest and laziest of roads possible to scratch that annoying itch to know, they become theists. — universeness

That's not true. If the gap is closed no more then no more gods of the gaps are needed. Then the gods are true gods, not serving to fill gaps, say between inflation and time zero.

Calling them ‘lunatics’ (or insinuating I’m saying that) tells me all I need to know about your ignorance. — I like sushi

You call them lunatics. In the sophisticated guise of "psychosis".

You really don’t understand what I’m talking about nor seem to understand anything about how the brain functions. Calling them ‘lunatics’ (or insinuating I’m saying that) tells me all I need to know about your ignorance. — I like sushi

I know exactly how my brain functions. That's exactly the reason I know depression or psychosis are not caused by some chemical imbalance of neurotransmitters. You can try to restore the balance by drugs, taking away the dark feeling, but that doesn't take away the cause.

If parsimony is our only criterion, necessitarianism wins by a mile — Cuthbert

Parsimonious people buy only the necessary. Only an object pushing can break the glass. The object is enough. Regardless you break it by hand, stone or hard wind.

If we are not bothered whether our theory is true or not, let's go with necessitarianism. — Cuthbert

Why is that? If we're not bothered with how the window broke?

A multitude of different causal chains gan cause the same event. One causal chain can cause a multitude of events. Causal connections can be established or discovered (not being merely correlations). What is it you actually wanna know about causation? Even ideas can cause. Are ideas caused? Yes. By other ideas. Can the gods cause things to happen?

"And then the clouds shake
A ray of sunshine Gloria
As if a promise
Some strange kind of Euphoria
Here in my darkness
Some strange kind of Euphoria
I wander in the endless desert
Drowning in the waves"

Well... I have always refused any kind of drugs and I stand on my position. I prefer this to kill me rather than alter my brain. — ithinkthereforeidontgiveaf

What's against taking drugs? I know it helps me. If you find the right one, it can sooth that brain depressing you. It wont take the real cause away though. But they can sooth the brain, which I dont see as constituting an essential part of me. Damned brain...

Quarks and electrons already contain the seeds of consciousness. They tend to like one another or hate one another. Already at that level there is the dual at work.

You don't match or come close to any theist I know — universeness

I think Im closer than allothem!

There will be a moon base soon enough. Easier to launch from there as opposed to Earth. — universeness

In how long? And then? To Mars? And then? Pluto? And then? Then it gets reaeaealy hard...

Is fantasy currently under theistic ownership? — universeness

I meant, why is it?

Doctor, heal thyself first! — universeness

It's alright uni, next week same time? Don't forget to make an appointment at the reception!

70 years is hardly a single human lifetime, a spacetime blink! There will be a moon base soon enough. Easier to launch from there as opposed to Earth. — universeness

If distance doubles every generation you would be right. But it doesn't.

On the other hand we have Kant supposing that we must already, a priori, have a notion of cause available to us in order that we bet able to attribute cause and effect. — Banno

In other words, cause is ideal. Which is nonsense since all dogs shake out in the same way.