Where you quoted me fellow troll bigbooze? To take up the stone? Its a light one.

I disagree, as scientists do not apply the Omnis to science or nature and they don't worship science or nature in any way that resembles theistic worship. — universeness

The worshipping isnt manifest. It hides in the minds of scientists and they secretly worship. It is not done to openly worship. That would be a sign of weakness.

It was you who associated the word 'worship' with atheists and scientists, not me. — universeness

Well, they worship the holy science books and the holy words in science festivals. The upper priest of science gather to spread the words and to proselytize.

You suggested science and nature are seen by scientists as equivalent to god(s) — universeness

Indeed. But their prayers are to a dead god. The god "they" worship is nature itself. Im a scientist too (as you probably know...) but I don't worship nature nor the gods. Im just admiring their beautiful creation and love knowing about it.

I dare you to try, Mr D-K. — 180 Proof

To try what bigbooze? To prove your thinking is not free?

Astronomical events like the precession of Earth's axis cause secondary causes, like ice caps, air and ocean currents, vegetation and bacterial life. — magritte

Indeed. The natural processes are complicated. Forks of causation, feed back, chaos, strongly linked and weakly linked processes influencing one another. Its impossible to get the full picture. The atmosphere and surface of the Earth influence one another quite actively. It's no flat surface and its in motion and full of life.

How would the Earth look if no humans stepped on the stage long ago? They have made quite some impression on nature! Fast and furious. Like that Blitzkrieg.

And again, in what ways have you witnessed this 'worship,' displayed? — universeness

What exactly do you mean by worshipping? Singing praying and bend in awe? Then no. That's not to be seen in science as they have no gods to worship. They onky have nature to beat into submission. To make up for the lack.

personally don't think he does but I haven't asked him and I haven't watched an interview where he does discuss it directly. I did watch a session where he reads out all the hate mail he gets from theists and just general individuals who don't like him. It was quite entertaining. — universeness

I'm sure he likes that mail. So he can proof his point.

Time: We want to contract it — Agent Smith

You wanna contract time? By offering it a job? What would its function? Can Time freeze the Mad Hatter? Was time killed during the Blitz? German nightflyers used speed in their nighttime bimbambombings on London:

Personal report:

"Der Start war manchmal spät, 10, 11 Uhr Abend's. Wann mann an kam über London es war 1, 2, in der Morgen. Dan war mann natürlich müde. Wann mann das bemärkt hat, und das darf keinenswegs der Fall sein, dann hat mann 1 oder 2 Tablette Pervitin geschluckt, und dann ging's wieder"

Nazis on speed

A vital touchstone — 180 Proof

If that's a vital touchstone for you, I won't remove it. Your world would collapse. I prefer the sweet security of the spicey divine lickstone.

the flower is perceived by some to bear resemblance to a human face, and in mid-to-late summer it nods forward as if deep in thought. — Wikipedia

Just look at the facial expression. Something obstructs, obfuscates, clearly... What can it be? :starstruck:

Yeah, I am sure Richard Dawkins read about the life of Lee Harvey Oswald and thought to himself, "That's the life for me! If I copy his approach to life then I will become famous in America too!!" : — universeness

Our friend Dawkins want to be famous not like Oswald but like the the guys writing silly books about him. Pays off...

Do they pray to nature, do they build places of worship to nature — universeness

In the labs they even beg nature! Forcing her to give answers in a language they suppose nature speaks. But she doesn't speak this language. They force her to speak it. By arranging the shape of experiment. Poor nature! Like that she wont answer...

So what examples of 'worship' do you witness atheists participating in? — universeness

The worship of an alien super advanced and super "intelligent" species (the omniscient and omnipotent gods) who have created us in their super computer. Cheers mate! You hang over from last night,? :smile:

Omnia possibilia sunt, omnia possibilia sunt, — Agent Smith

I thought you would never say, my love! :love:

It is wrong always, everywhere, and for anyone, to believe anything upon insufficient evidence. — William Kingdon Clifford

Wrong!

Acting in line with a tradition, bigbooze, is already proof your freedom is in a sweet slavery submissive state. Be my guest! :razz:

Last ten days saw an unusual high activity concerning gods. The threads:

-The invalidity of atheism
-My favourite philosophers of religion and theologians
-If one person can do it
-Jesus and Greek philosophy
-Omnipotence
-What is mysticism
-A first cause is logically necessary
-Thoughts on the way we should live
-The problem of evil
-Christian abolitionism
-Does God love some more than others
-Different creation/causation narratives
-Why are things the way they are
-The meaning of life
-Atheism and solipsism
-An argument against the existence of the most advocated god
-Free will and omnipotence
-A time problem for theism
-Can theists reject dualism
-Pascal's wager
-Does God have free will?
-The Christian trilemma
-Omnipotence and the law of non-contradiction
-The root of all evil
-An objection to a cosmological modal argument
-Fine tuning argument
-Why does time move forward

Is this a strange coincidence? Do I perceive pregnancy everywhere?

So in principle, the metric of spacetime in special relativity, can be deduced from wars? One's Blitz can be other's Schnecke though...

Why would we need to do the explaining? — Agent Smith

Just take a good lookaround. That's not how heaven looks like. Instead, the homonid carbon copies of the homonid-gods did some damned intensive rearranging. Paradis lost. If only god-kind didn't overlook them when they worked on the right stuff. Enthusiasm and craving to escape the collective feeling of existential emptiness, felt in the whole of eternal and infinite heaven, was too overwhelming. No real attention was given to the homonid-gods. To their squiblings and squackeleries. For that they might be to blame

Just read the title of one of Pinker's books, one part in the new bible series:

Enlightenment NOW. The case for Reason, Science, Humanism, and Progress.

Nice words. Humanism and progress. Who dont like humans and progress. But words can deceive. One's humanism can be other's inhumanity. One's progress can be other's way back.

And conservatism is on the right. — Gregory A

I read rumors though that guys like Dawkins and Harris joint with the extreme right.

God has a lot of explainin' to do, ja — Agent Smith

No, Agent my love. It's us who should explain. The apology should be ours. BTW, you roll the cigarettes yourself?

Page 33! In 10 days! Theism rules! Is it the state of the world? Much god talk going on. More than half of recent threads involve gods. Are they trying to reach out? Do they wanna say something? I predict: within 10 days, page 50 will be reached.

If you put the blue and red chart on top of each other it's not quite clear what the causal relation is between the temperature and the CO2 levels. But what else can cause temperature change? There seems to be a periodic natural variation. Not sure if it's truly periodic. What's sure, is the short time in which temperature has occurred is specific for modern man age. Like the shape of the increase in time. And it's sure there are two effects. T-rise because of CO2 rise and CO2 rise because of T-rise.

Dawkins suffers from Lee Oswald syndrome. How to become famous in America. — Gregory A

:grin:

:100:

cannot see how a freethinker is not also an unbeliever insofar as freethought warrants unbelief. — 180 Proof

Then you're not a real freethinker. Freethought warrants unbelief? Why's that? You think gods oblige? That only creation from pure chance offers freedom?

I've read the very first in the row! The gods. What use are the others still?

am coming from a perspective that we live in a objective world but cannot experience it, we just experience perceptions of it — Tusmuertos3

But as you are yourself the object behind the perception you know who you are cause you are who you are. You are the Ding an Sich. The body an Sich.

Im a different person to all people. So in a way I'm 1000 persons.

And even if society is more 'stable' or 'harmonious' under a monolithic religion, it says nothing about the truth of the belief system. — Tom Storm

Precisely. The monolithic reign of the current religion of the sciences says nothing about the truth of that belief.

Science is fact, What we believe is Dogma and Philosophy is the stuff in between. — GBG

The central dogma of molecular biology...

In my opinion, I think it's undeniable that this is the issue of our time and those of us who aren't in denial should at least put it in their top 3 political priorities and act accordingly — Xtrix

You really think the situation improves? Last years saw the highest emission, if I recall correctly. Our only hope is fusion, or solar energy and hydrogen to make the energy portable. Or even better, a drastic reduction of economical activity. Try that telling capitalists though...

We cant even create a virus in a lab. Let alone a conscious computer!

Make up your mind, do you welcome the technologies produced from science or not. — universeness

Absolutely no. They are the cause the planet will get fucked up more and more. It grows exponentially in accordance with the imperative of science: "Discover!" Creation and the creatures involved in it gets fucked. No wonder humanity will be in danger one day, if not already. That clock! Dreaming to escape by a space ark is as silly as the believe in one almighty monster god. But dream on universeness! Instead of reducing technology, by the advocates even mirrored as indistinguishable from magic one day, you try building a spaceship to the stars! To escape the mess brought about by technology in the first place! Dream on dream on. We cant even create a virus...

From Wikipedia:

This is a list of philosophers of religion.

God

As the first in the row. Remarkable...

Did Nietzsche believe in gods? Or only in a dead one?

philosophers of religion – who confront "the divine" — 180 Proof

And how they know what that even is?

unbeliever (freethinker) — 180 Proof

As if these two are the same... :sparkle:

I prefer my own theology. My being was prepared as it were, to receive a message from the eternal infinite heavens where the godkinds played their divine games already eternally.

that sounds like your personal belief, isn't it? — BohdanZ

Indeed. My theology, in close connection to my cosmology, and my theonomy, in close connection to my astronomy, was transmitted from heaven in a dream.

If to be is to be perceived we would be empty shells, living in the dream-like reality of others only. This emptiness might be compensated by the manifold appearance of the shell but also their shells would be empty according to our perception. Esse=percipi would be equivalent to 0=0=inf.