The Rand analysis is nonsense. An entrepreneur bought a site and alienated some of his core customers. They left and started their own competing business. That's the free market in action. Time will tell who prevails, and it may be both.

Their PR was handled miserably. A timely and transparent transition would have eliminated any problem or a competitor.

The motivation for this site is just too make something better.

My post "New Owners" was deleted by SuperAdmin for low post quality. Interesting how no other admin felt that way prior to SuperAdmin.

Paul never deleted critical posts. Criticism is sort of what philosophy is all about.

Personally, if someone accused me of being a lying thief, I'd either deny it or own it and then explain my F up, but I wouldn't ignore it.

Anyway, we've moved on. Let's make this thing work.

Great idea Tiff! I say run with it, but I'm not in charge.

I was thinking the exact thing. I even googled the question, and it gave some ideas. It would seem that if you Google "philosophy," you'd want the name of this site to appear on those sites somewhere. PF has 12 years of building itself up, but we'll get there.

So, if you've seen there's a welcome from the new owners posted on PF. Paul is an admin. One of the new owners (Nik) explains he has an undergraduate and graduate degree in philosophy and that was why he choose to purchase the site. He also said they would sell ads. There are a few pieces of this puzzle that don't make complete sense, but I've spent way too much time thinking about it.

Which is to ignore my post and the question of the OP entirely, which is how to handle the crisis. So, let us tell the Dutch that there is a critical difference between an immigrant and a refugee; therefore all their concerns about maintaining their way of life don't apply, and offering consolation about the minimal numbers is unnecessary. Yes, they are ethically bound. Just tell them that and all will be well and there won't be any political opposition because even if the nation is overrun and forever negatively changed, ethics demanded the acceptance of the refugees.

Immigration is always a scary proposition because it upsets the democratic balance, especially when the immigrants have differing ideologies. The response from the current residents is usually aimed at preserving that balance, either through limiting the immigration or enforcing some sort of assimilation mechanism, like language, dress, or behavior enforcement. There's no question that each side misstates the consequences, with one side screaming the world is coming to an end and the other side screaming it's just racism. The truth is that the significance of the immigration will depend upon the actual number and how prevalent they'll be in the specific area where you live. There's no question that concentrated areas of immigrants have changed the socioeconomic and political structure of certain areas, leading to migrations within the country.

If you are the US, with a population exceeding 100 million where mobility is fairly easy, and a history of immigration since its founding, it might be easier to deal with than in smaller, more homogenous countries.

A significant part of the OP relates to the overstatement of the number of refugees, which seems to tacitly accept the fact that the raw number of immigrants is relevant in terms of maintaining a certain way of life. That is, it concedes (at least to some extent) that immigrants are bad, but then offers consolation by saying that the nation is big enough to absorb it, so stop worrying.

Let's simply admit that not all immigrants offer something positive for a nation and that a nation is not being racist or nationalistic when it protects its borders. A basic tenant of being a sovereign nation is that it be able to protect its borders. There is no reason to be apologetic about that as long as the prosperity of the nation is truly being considered, as opposed to simply eliminating people based upon ethnicity or another irrelevant consideration.

The Netherlands, for example, is more prosperous, more fair, more progressive, and more enlightened than pre-ISIS Syria, and it has every reason not to want many of those Syrian values carried over by the immigrants made part of the fabric of the Netherlands. That's not racist or nationalistic. That's just trying to protect the good thing you have. You will control the fears of the current residents by accepting that some of their concerns are valid and offering them assurance (through the passage of laws if necessary) that they and their children will be able to continue to live in the same comfortable, safe environment. Telling them that they're over-reacting will only identify you as a political opponent who they will feel motivated to weaken in the next political election.

I was thinking the same thing. Let's not spoil the suspense though. We'll know soon enough when Banno joins up and there's a cat fight. — Baden

I sent Banno a PM to come on over. I didn't put an @ sign on it or a hash tag, so it may not work. I think if I hit Ctrl-X on his avatar over there and do a Ctrl-V over here, it will copy and paste him here. That's how I get to work every morning anyway.

Oh, yeah, sorry @baden

Doesn't it still pop up under "mentions" even without the @ symbol? When do I use a hashtag? I've heard tale of them, but when I was growing up we just had stamps and envelopes.

It is my humility and self-deprecating sense of humor that endears me to my inferiors. As a result, I post occasional comments like the one above, only to have it used maliciously against me. An ordinary person would protest, but I sit back content, appreciating how my comments have elevated the self worth of those who have so little.

4

I've known you for some time Tiff, I couldn't remember you saying anything of philosophical interest, but I thought I'd check the records.

I wasn't suggesting you should leave, I was suggesting you should stay and make more appropriate contributions. — Human

I'm here for the piss and vinegar.

Also, I'm here for Baden, especially with his new avatar. It sort of gets me going.

we should get KwalishKid back too — Benkei
Yes. Hell, get TGW over here too. — Baden

You're an admin over there. Why don't you just unban everyone and let the inmates run free?

I personally don't think anything is wrong with advertisement generating some income for this site. I think a skyscraper add on the left or right would work fine without interfering with the user experience. — Benkei
No way. That's just what we're trying to get away from here. The donations route should be fine. At $49 a month, we only need to pay a couple of bucks each per month to cover the fees. By the time we need to expand and pay more, we'll have more members to pay it. — Baden

I didn't leave because of the fear of advertisements. I left because the new owner had some issues he wouldn't discuss and I was getting less than stellar customer service over there from the absentee owner. I think if Paul would have brought up ads to save the site, we'd have all gotten aboard. It was a reality we needed to deal with.

Having said that, since it seems some really hate ads, what I think we need is a suggested donation amount based upon what we need to continue operating without putting too much stress on any one person (i.e. Jamalrob). Financial situations change, and we don't want to repeat what just happened by just assuming someone is picking up the tab. We also don't want to put anyone in the position of having to beg, borrow, or steal when things get tough, so let's come up with a way to assure financial security. If that means ads for everyone, ads for nonmembers only, membership fees, suggested donations, or whatever will work, I'm in favor of it. But the "it'll work itself out" idea works until it doesn't.

I'm definitely in favor of some sort of plan where we can donate, preferably with a set annual fee (or at least a suggested donation) based upon what is needed to keep the site up. As we've learned, it's a wonderful concept to make the site completely free to all comers, but it poses a real hazard when the financial demands aren't being met. I think if we'd have all learned of the financial issues at PF earlier, we'd have likely met those challenges and could have avoided all this.

Oh, and we need a shout box if possible. I think we're getting clutter in the general sections where a shout would have been all that is required. Of course, if the software doesn't allow for shouts, then no shouts.

Yes, this is the real party. Tell all your friends and get everyone over here!

The "comments" shows my comments and not the comments others have made to my comments. I do like having a quick listing of everything I have previosly said just to admire. I would like a button that says "Hanover's Comments" available to everyone so that everyone else can admire my comments on demand like I can. That would be helpful to everyone, but especially to Wosret and other stupid people in need of wisdom.

Time for me to change my pic. I need Hanover's obsession — Yahadreas

Your obsession is philosophy forums generally, finding time to post at PF1, PF2, and PF temporary. My obsession, though, is dudes who portray themselves as Japanese Anime chicks. At least mine makes sense. You know, best of both worlds.

Actually, Miss Georgia won. So, in your face everyone other than Georgia!

I still think we need a worthy constitution - which might mean that it be formed undemocratically to an extent, for example, by overruling absolute majority decisions. — Sapientia

I will write a Constitution for you guys. I'm abreast on the natural rights each of us were endowed by my Creator (not yours, you're godless). I can put something together. One thing I might change is giving Senators 8 year terms instead of 6 and somewhat strengthening the right to bear arms.

One real question to everyone, is there a way to get a listing of only the threads you've participated in like existed on that other site I used to frequent? I used to use the "My Threads" button, but I can't find one here. I tried to cut and paste theirs over here, but it doesn't work that way.

I have a "I Miss W" sticker on my car. I have it just to be endearing. Working?

Time spent collecting Hanover trinkets is time well spent as is time spent talking about ME.

Been thinking about this question as well. Possible reason: the third place for the internet age: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_place

And that also explains my reason for slowly leaving the old place. Something was lost. It's not like the quality suddenly tanked or even the people I was dealing with day to day even changed. It just sort of became uncomfortable and untrustworthy.

I also have this weird obsession for dudes who potray themselves as Japanese anime chicks.

The reason to get rid of the likes is because they're irrelevant and we care too much about them, except me. I haven't even noticed I'm in second place behind Jamalrob, who's only winning because he set up this site.

12 inches.

And you thought I couldn't bring it down a notch.

It's hard to say, definitely my kids and grandkids because they are either in the present or in my lifetime, but I'll admit it gets less as you move out in time. It's the same geographically. I care about what happens to me and my neighbors more than those more distant from me, like, Canada, or somewhere stupid like that.

Sap, how do you quote people like that? Share your wisdom.

I do care about human beings into the future, the farther out, the less I care. I have kids, you see, and I actually do care what happens to them and my grandkids once I have them. It's understandable that Benkei might care less about the future based upon his avatar that shows him to be a scraggly hippy downing a beer with his kid in his lap. It's hard to care about tomorrow when you've given up on today.

Carrots,
G

In many years from now, only the few here right now will know the origin of the big stupid G next to my name.

Because technically I'm an idiot. Can you not read?

I've looked at the breakdown of threads and thought maybe there should be a Hanover room, sort of dedicated to all things Hanover.

AHHH! Don't answer yet. Take some time to mull it over.

I just realized that if you hover just to the right of where it says "minutes ago" that the word "reply" will appear. I'll be a master in no time.

Or we could send them back to PF 1.0.

I may be technologically stupid, so, it may or may not have been impossible to change myself. I couldn't find it, and I thought you'd be excited about the opportunity to serve one of your first guests, so I offered that up for you. I'm always giving.

I think the more to discuss, the better, so I'm in favor of it.

I also think you should immediately create an unmoderated section just so people will know that there is a jail, since some heathens here obviously have no fear of hell.

Jamalrob, site looks great! Thanks for stepping up and doing this.

How do I change my user name? I want to remove the Gerald (not my name anyway).