Im inclined to agree with that on some levels.

But if I try to define what that 'self' (separated from minds / actions) constitutes, it seems utterly abstract, impercievable. Therefore I question that it 'exists'.

Could you perhaps elaborate / further define what this 'self' constitutes?

Cheers

Yeah i'd agree with that. Seems to me that thoughts are a precursor to actions, and through effort and awareness we can exert some control of our thoughts. Thus choice and change is possible, theoretically.

Appreciate the input.

Yes. If we consider that thoughts, feelings etc + actions = who you are.

And we also consider these 2 things cause the other in a cyclical way....what are the implications for being able to 'change' oneself? Does it suggest an inescapable loop that prevents this possibility?

It seems to me that (if indeed the original ideas are valid) the only agency we have to change ourselves is to try to control our thoughts. (If this is possible) creating a knock on effect to our actions, thus our feelings.

Feelings / emotions are inherently uncontrollable i'd say, up to a point. And if actions are a direct result of all these aforementioned 'mental processes' they can only be changed via attempting to control an aspect of these. ( ie thoughts ) which im sure some would argue is not possible - hence, we are doomed to failure if we ever try to 'change' ( i assume this touches on the question of free will)

Other conclusions from this theory might be that mindfulness, meditation, is perhaps the key, as they seek to control in some sense, the chaos of our minds. "Watch your thoughts for they become your....etc etc etc"

Just floating some half baked ideas here, equally hoping for some explanations as to why they are innacurate.

Cheers.

I agree that 'thoughts and feelings' is a very simplistic way of putting it, but i do mean it to include logic, reason, emotion etc. Any mental function really.

Actions governing our feelings / thoughts in so far as our past 'experience' is determined largely by our past actions.

Even if these actions were receptive, such as seeing, hearing, being told something etc.

So while more specifically our experience governs our thoughts / feelings / beliefs, i see experience as being a product of our actions. Does that make sense?