I thought I had already addressed your question with this: "If one barely has the belief that they have a responsibility to take someone to the doctors, then for example they may think that they maybe dreamed that they made an arrangement to drive them, and they will probably try to increase their confidence by calling the person or something." That was written right before you asked your question again, and thus your restated question shows a lack of comprehension on your part, right? I then addressed your question again because you didn't comprehend it the first time apparently, and you wrote:"I asked you to quote where you address what I have asked you again and again, could you not find it?", and that indicates to me you probably didn't even comprehend that I addressed your question again, which is consistent with your lack of comprehension from the first time. All of this is consistent with your lack of comprehension of my argument when you requested for me to give the clear logic when I already provided it, and your lack of comprehension when I had to quote for you the following on another matter: "I currently think assent to a belief happens has soon as something is perceived to be more likely the case than not (51%). So, one trusts in it more than not, but a handshake puts another condition on it, so that one must trust more than not that they will likely not jeopardize their perceived integrity with the handshake, so to reach that 51% may require something like 90% confidence with the other belief." So, it seems you are the one who is tardy. Please confirm this, or if you disagree then please explain why. — DreamCatcher
A lack of comprehension on my part? No, you have created two contexts, one context where it's just about a belief at the lowest threshold, and another context where it's not just about a belief but the responsibility of actually taking someone to the doctors, OK. The first if it's just about a belief at the lowest threshold, then why can't you shake on it? You have given no reason other than the other context where it's about taking on actual responsibility, which you claim needs more confidence, OK, but you have changed the contexts.
Wrong. Again, you fail to comprehend.
I wrote this: "Your opening post presents one belief that is assented to at the lowest threshold of belief. I think the lowest threshold to any belief is always 51%. So, I think there is no context relevant to your position that changes things. Again, your position holds one can always shake on one's belief, even if they barely believe it, and it is valid behavior to do. That is what the disagreement is over. Please confirm this, or if you disagree then please explain why. If you agree that is what the disagreement is over, then hopefully you can see how you are straying away from your stated position when you state now: "see how in some contexts one may need as little as 51% to shake on something, just as other contexts may need 90%, and other contexts 99% confidence in their belief?". Again, the lowest threshold to assent to any belief is always 51%. If you disagree with that premise, then please explain why."
So, as I've already stated, any one belief can be assented to at 51%, and so your statement, "If one needs high confidence to assent to a particular belief ...", is I believe a mistaken notion. Please confirm this, or if you disagree then please explain why. — DreamCatcher
Yes, I believe on can always shake on what they believe. The other percentages I speak of relate to the confidence necessary to reach a threshold of belief. I can for example can have the belief that I will likely be able to take someone to their doctors appointment, and all I need is 51% confidence to meet that threshold of likeliness to form that belief, but if I want to meet the threshold to believe that I will be able to take someone confidently to the doctors, then I may need say 95% confidence to meet that threshold of belief, and when that threshold of belief is met, it's marked by what? 51%. As that is the threshold of assenting to a belief, right???
Is not the original question asking someone if they can take them to the doctors tomorrow? Does that question not deal with the idea of responsibility??????
— moo
I have already clarified the matter, and so your question shows a lack of comprehension. I wrote this: "I tried to give an example with the ride to the doctor, and unfortunately, the way I wrote things conveys that one is giving a promise when they say "yes", so I think that confuses what I'm trying to show. However, if one has a belief that, "I will drive this person to the doctors tomorrow", and it's at the lowest threshold of assent, it is by definition at the lowest confidence level possible, meaning, it is held with little confidence (51%). If the one needing a ride asks, "is that a belief that you have", and the person simply responds "yes", and the other person says shake on it, and they do, I imagine you can see how that situation may jeopardize the relationship, and I think that goes against the function of the handshake, which again, I think is to engender trust. That is why I believe your position is unsound."
And I wrote this:"The opening post speaks of beliefs, and it's not clear to me if one can choose a belief, but I think one can choose to take on the responsibility of something. So, I currently think a belief is always assented to by a feeling of confidence when it's at 51% or more, but assenting to take on a responsibility depends on how responsible the person is; the more responsible they are, the more confidence I think they require to take on a responsibility. Again, the opening post speaks of assenting to beliefs, not to assenting to take on the responsibility of something, so please keep that in mind. As I conveyed in my other post, I adjusted the scenario of driving someone to the doctors as not involving making a promise."
So, hopefully you can see that your question does not push the conversation forward, but just conveys your lack of comperhension. Please confirm this, or if you disagree then please explain why. — DreamCatcher
The person must believe the person is asking for just the belief of likelihood and not responsibility, or else why have they assented to respond to them in an ambiguous/ misleading way? You're jumping between contexts to try and make and argument. If the person question is just about a belief of likely hood, then why can't the person shake on that at 51% confidence? If the question is about taking them to the doctors tomorrow than why would the person assent to such responsibility at just at a 51% likelihood of achieving such in their belief???
why do you think a sense of responsibility is not a belief? I think it is. I don't think I lack comprehension, but you do, and I have made my case for such multiple times now. Read above again.
I have shown you again and again, that assenting to a belief takes a certain level of confidence, and you can then stand behind that confidence with a handshake. I think I have shown you again and again that if one is not willing to stand behind their belief with a handshake, which is a symbol of trust, then why would they put trust in a belief that they have assented to, but won't stand behind it with a symbol of trust like a handshake? The only way I see that making sense, is that a handshake is not simply a symbol of trust, but a symbol beyond just trust.
— moo
I think one can have a weak level of trust in a belief they have assented to, but they would not necessarily want to simply shake on it. I think at least generally the handshake is a symbol beyond mere trust; it is a symbol of a high level of trust or confidence, as I have been putting forth. I think all you do above is restate your position without confronting my argument, and so my argument still stands. Again, please confirm you failed to show my argument as unsound, and you continue to do so, or if you disagree then please explain why.
You indicated my second premise and my claim in my conclusion are incoherent with each other, and I conveyed that they are coherent, and requested for you to confirm this, but you did not. Please confirm you failed to fulfill my request, and then please address it. — DreamCatcher
To have a high level of confidence is a belief, and that belief is marked by 51%, so your argument makes no sense on your own terms.
1. The handshake, in this context, is a symbol of trust (you have stated this is your belief)
2. One trusts in things they are more confident about.
3. If confusion happens, then that can lead to mistrust, which goes against the function of the handshake.
Therefore, given that trust is naturally associated to high confidence (premise 2), the handshake can lead to confusion if the confidence behind it is lower than the normal expectation, which can cause mistrust, and that goes against the handshake's function of being a symbol of trust. — DreamCatcher
Premise one, I agree with.
Premise two, I agree with, which is marked by 51% right??? The trust causes the belief to form.
Premise three, I agree with, but the confusion is caused by what???? Not the shaking on what one believes, but rather a miscommunication. You have taken two contexts and danced between the two to try and make a case, but that behavior is incoherent as your changing contexts to do it.
A handshake is a social norm, and I believe it operates with in a framework, and just because there are perhaps strong associations with it in a particular manner, does not mean those associations are the complete picture, and if one is blinded by such association's/social norms, then that is on them for neglecting the truth of the situation. The way you're thinking seems to go, is like this, social norms rule, bend to them, or you're in the wrong, unless you're not. Well, I think I'm not in the wrong and am operating within the framework.
— moo
What is your framework? If your framework is not from a shared understanding, then it will not serve a shared meaning, correct? If it will not serve a shared meaning, then what function does it have? You have stated that you think it's purpose is to be a symbol of trust, and I have put forth that, to fulfill your own notion, the handshake needs to carry a shared meaning with others, and that trust is naturally associated with high confidence, and so confusion and mistrust can happen with the way you have things, and that goes against your own premise that the handshake is a symbol of trust. Therefore, you're not operating coherently within your own stated framework. Please confirm this, or if you disagree then please explain why. — DreamCatcher
I disagree! There is a shared meaning, and if I'm asked what I believe, and then asked to shake on what I believe, then I can do that, for it's what I believe, and I can offer a symbol of trust on what I believe, such as a handshake. How does that not register as being seemingly right to you? All your doing is changing contexts to try and create an unshared meaning to try and put me in the wrong and delude yourself.