Thank you for the literature pointers.

My boy had his first knife when he was 4, he's now quite an accomplished carver and makes most of his own toys, but I wouldn't give a knife to most 16 year olds I meet, because they weren't given one when young, they just don't know how to handle it. — Pseudonym

But my guess is that you didn't give him a skill saw at age 4.

I don't think anyone disagrees with the idea that kids should be given age appropriate risks. The focus of the disagreement is which risks are appropriate for which age. The brain's risk assessment capacity doesn't seem to fully develop until the mid-20s. That's why governments draft the young. The young don't think they will die.

In hunter-gatherer societies children are given complete freedom, they are free to play with knives, poisons, fire, deep rivers, wild animals etc. What they learn from this is that they have to decide for themselves what is dangerous and what is not, they have to learn how to spot danger and avoid it. In the really deadly scenarios, and adult is always close by to step in, but other than that, they are allowed to make their own mistakes and learn from them. The result is some of the most psychologically well-adjusted young adults in the world — Pseudonym

I'd truly be interested in any evidence that you have to support that last sentence. If it is true, I wonder how causality is determined. l'd like to see comparisons to other small, inclusive communities such as the Amish.

There are a lot of countries (such as Scandinavian countries) where sex doesn't have much of a stigma. I submit that even in those countries, a mid-40s male pursuing their 16 year old daughters for casual sex would be a cause for concern.

sounds to me like you still have the views he had before he left to the other country — David Solman

Nope. I've been an atheist since the age of 11. I am currently living in sin with a woman ;-)

Thank you for your insights. I hadn't considered that my friends might suffer indirectly through my actions. In the beginning, I had thought that any increased risk of an unpleasant encounter with my brother warranted my friends being told. I now see that there could be ramifications that I have not considered that have to be weighed against that risk.

People agreeing with you is not evidence. — Perplexed

It might not be dispositive, but it is certainly suggestive and worth taking seriously when it involves experiences that you and I don't have.

As an analogy to help you see where I am coming from, consider product reviews on Amazon. Assuming that they are truthful, you'd probably consider it some evidence as to the quality of the product if you had no experience with the product in question.

If this analogy doesn't help you see my point of view, that's fine. I don't want to argue about the particulars of this analogy. Analogies aren't a good form of reasoning, just good for helping communication.

By what logic would mothers have some magical insight but the daughters themselves not know their own minds? — Pseudonym

Greater experience in an area that the girl doesn't have experience in.

You judge my brother's actions as neutral. I am not sure of your basis for that judgment.

I say that my brother is psychologically hurting many of the girls. Part of my evidence is that mothers who have daughters would overwhelmingly agree with me. It is relevant because we are talking about psychological damage through sexual acts. Gender and age are very relevant in sexual acts. Mothers with daughters have much more insight into what could cause damage to girls at that age than you or I do because of internal experience and close observation.

So you don't think that adult women who have to care for their daughters have more insight into their sexual and psychological vulnerabilities than you do?

Do you think it's relevant that most likely over 90% of mothers who have daughters would think my brother's behavior is deplorable?

but I can tell you what a mother or father of the age of 40 would think of such a pursuit. — ArguingWAristotleTiff

Perhaps you could tell others here why you think my brother's behavior is terrible.

Most age of consent laws are like the hockey rule; that is, they're absolute in terms of age (usually). I think a more soccer-like rule would result in less injustice. Assuming no coercion, assuming the parties "mutually consented," then for same age, no legal issue. There may be other issues, but no (immediate) issue of law. — tim wood

I think that's a great point. I agree.

Thank you for your reasoned reply.

In my opinion your brother is behaving selfishly and his selfishness carries the potential to do harm to these women, harm which he has either downplayed or dismissed. — dermanhuby

Yes, I agree.

You are too close to be objective — dermanhuby

I also agree.

I am pretty much convinced that it isn't my position to put up a website. I should see someone who is a professional in the field with my concerns.

What do you make of Bitter Crank's point that I am not a court?

Due process. You are not a court. — Bitter Crank

Great point. Would the difference between telling my friends and telling the world be the private versus public nature of the statement?

Public warning seems too much — tim wood

Could you expand on why you think a public warning seems too much?

Yes if you have facts and not just hearsay. — ArguingWAristotleTiff

Wow, thanks for taking a stand and biting the bullet of consistency. No one else has.

The easiest way out for me is to tell my friend but not build the website. But right now, i don't see any reason why I am justified doing one but not the other. To my mind, it's either do both or neither. If I don't think my brother's behavior justifies building a website to tell the world, then I shouldn't tell my friend. But going public with this information would be insanely hard emotionally. It would probably destroy my relationship with my parents. A utilitarian might look at the cost to me and the benefit received by the girls who don't have relationships with my brother because of the website. Then see whether there is positive outcome.

But it sure is tough being objective about the costs and benefits when I will be the one bearing those costs.

Did these arguments relate in any way to your brothers attitude and behaviour towards women? — Perplexed

No. They were about politics, religion, life. They were never serious enough to cause a rupture. Before these events, I would have died for my brother.

Have you considered trying to rebuild the relationship so that you can be a positive influence to your brother? — Perplexed

My brother is a master rationalizer. He will say that it depends on the girl. My brother would argue in the grey area till the cows come home. And I admit, this isn't a black and white issue like pedophilia. There will be some people who have no problem with what my brother is doing, while they won't say the same for pedophilia. I disagree with those people and I think most parents would. But if enough people in our society thought this issue were important, the age of consent would be modified to account for age differences -- taking a moral issue and making it law.

Are you in possession of any of the facts relating to the complaints? — Perplexed

The first complaint was made by a girl who tried to blackmail my brother after they slept together. Whether the sleeping together included sex or not is up to dispute. The police seized his cell phone and saw other girls. They were contacted. My brother plead guilty to sexual relations with one of them, but says that he did so only so that he could get out of jail.

The second complaint, I have less information on. The details I do have are pretty sordid and I really don't have the stomach or desire to know how much is true or not true. There was another man involved who paid the girl to drop everything. The news story isn't pretty, but my brother claims the news story is wrong.

BTW, how old are you? Straight or gay? Older or younger than your brother? Just wondering what your relationship with your brother is like, outside of this particular age of consent issue. — Bitter Crank

Age: mid-century. Straight. Older than my brother. We had a pretty close, but argumentative relationship before his arrests. Since then, hardly any relationship. I was initially not going to answer your questions, but they have prompted me to wonder whether my pursuing this is partly due to wanting to assert a hierarchical order over my brother. At the same time, I hadn't considered telling my friend before my significant other (who is a mother), said that we should tell him.

So I don't know how pure my motives are, which is why I want good, consistent reasons for acting. And that is why I am at this forum, so that my own biases are checked.

If not isn't it somewhat condescending for you to assume that they don't have minds of their own or can make decisions for themselves. ' — Perplexed

Two of the girls complained to the police. But it's possible that the overwhelming majority of the girls had positive experiences with my brother. I doubt it, but I have no way of knowing for sure. I think if you asked, at least 90% of the mothers in the world who have 16 year old daughters would not want them having sex with my brother. That's not dispositive by itself, but it's important to consider why mothers feel that way. Combine that with a large power imbalance, the potential for manipulation and the fact that my brother doesn't have the best interests of the girls in mind.

You seem to be having a problem with "proportionate response". — Bitter Crank

No. My problem is determining the right action to take.

It's a family matter, not the whole world's concern. Keep it within the family. — Bitter Crank

So, to clarify, you wouldn't tell your friend that your brother might try to have sex with his 16 year old daughter, given your brother's past history?

As a parent I can understand your concern and would Thank you for the heads up. I would also let your brother know that I said as such and let him deal with the consequences of not seeing anything wrong with a 16 yr old being hit on by a 40 yr old man. Let him see the reality of what other people actually think. Let the father or mother of the 16 yr old talk to your brother about his interests, you know, adult to adult. — ArguingWAristotleTiff

Thank you for your perspective. I totally get where you are coming from. But I think you are not facing directly my dilemma in the above quote. You, as a mom, would be thankful that I warned you. But don't you think moms everywhere would be thankful that I put up a website warning them against my brother?

So should I or shouldn't I put up a website telling the world that my brother likes to sleep with 16-19 year old girls? If not, why not?

I appreciate the comments. It certainly helps to get outside perspective on something that I can't share with friends. My long time partner knows, but I need more outside perspective to make sure that I am thinking clearly about this issue.

As a hypothetical, if my brother were a pedophile, arrested and slapped on the wrist in a foreign country, I would already have the website up publishing his name. Family loyalty is just balderdash when a family member is doing something terribly wrong. My brother is not a pedophile thank goodness, so (fortunately) it is not as easy for me to decide what to do.

I think a lot hinges on how much damage (if any) one thinks a mid-40s man who pursues 16-19 year old girls is causing. I am much more aligned with Tim Wood's way of thinking:

A sexually experienced (100+) middle aged man who targets 16-19-year-olds is like a ranked professional boxer who fights high schools boys. Fair fight? Admirable? Healthy and beneficial to all concerned? Or just maybe something wrong. — tim wood

Of course, that's my own and Tim's perspective and I don't expect everyone to share it. But if I only broadcast the facts (my brother sleeps with 16-19 year olds) and let people decide whether they approve, disapprove or are indifferent, I am not destroying his life if people don't care. My brother thinks he does nothing wrong. He says that his friends in the foreign country wouldn't think it a big deal if he had a 16 year old girl friend. If no one but a few people care, then publishing this information would be as harmless as publishing that someone drinks during a prohibition. (An imperfect analogy, but my point is that if few people care, then there is no social sanction and my brother can continue on with his ways.) And if people do care and don't want that behavior within their community and my brother's life is severely limited by publishing his history, then isn't that something good?

The question that I have is whether just because something is legal, should there be no social sanction? Should a mid-40s male pursuing 16 year old girls be tolerated within a community, even if legal? I think not, but perhaps in 100 years, such behavior won't even raise an eyebrow.

I think there is a bit of confusion from others (such as Hanover) about my dilemma. If my brother did sleep with a 14 year old girl, I would go to the police and I wouldn't be asking for perspective from this forum. So to clarify my dilemma, suppose the age of my friend's daughter were 16. Should I then tell my friend about my brother's preference for girls that age? And crucially, if you think I should tell my friend, then why shouldn't I broadcast my brother's sexual choices to the world? My friend's 16 year old daughter is not inherently more valuable than other 16 year old girls.

The difficulty I have is that in the above situation, I would be inclined to tell my friend about my brother if his daughter were 16 but I am much LESS inclined to make a website broadcasting to the world my brother's sexual preference for 16-19 year olds. But I am not sure whether there is a principled or reasoned difference between my two inclinations.