I read recently (I was looking at COVID-19 info) that the NHS has been accused by multiple of women of being denied pain medication for childbirth. Apparently some women have considered abortion rather than face it again. The article said that at least part of the problem is staffing. I thought of that while watching fdrake's video: "Take back control." Maybe that resonates way beyond membership in the EU.

There have been many worrying reports about maternity units and midwifery over the last few years in the UK, including many unnecessary deaths of newborns, due to negligent midwifery. I'm not surprised by what you say. There are some very odd things happening in hospitals at the moment. A friend of mine who has Addisons disease was admitted to hospital about a week ago for his Addisons symptoms. He told a scary story about confusion about his symptoms amongst the healthcare workers. After a couple of days he got the impression that he was going to be put into a Covid ward. He tried to discharge himself and they locked the doors and refused to let him out, eventually he managed to escape by going through the services entrance. He won't be going back.

Yes I'm sure a Labour government would have taken the threat seriously right from the beginning and locked down at least a week earlier. Corbyn would have been vilified by the media and many Tory's, but that wouldn't have phased him.

As to whether Brexit will remove some toxicity in UK politics is a very hard question to answer because there are so many different angles to this. It certainly will remove those angry Brexiters, but it will cause all kinds of other problems. One could view the EU as a moderating influence on UK politics, or the reverse depending on what you are commenting on, or what your view is. Also there is the difference between the idea of leaving, on the assumption that it will be carried out in a considerate amicable way resulting in a constructive partnership. As opposed to the up yours EU petulant destructive Leaving we are now facing. 90% of my criticism is of the way we are leaving and not necessarily to leaving in principle.

Good point, Channel 4 did a good expose on all this manipulation, which essentially amounts to electoral fraud.

It still feels to me like there's something about Brexit that I'm not getting. Is there an underlying truth? Something more deeply seated? Or did the populists sort of randomly win?

There is a deep seated fear, one which goes back in history to the time when foreign powers did come and conquer the country. Principally in 1066 when the French colonised Britain and handed out lordships amongst themselves covering the whole country, these overlords became the upper classes.
But these days this fear is residual rather like the fear of snakes, or spiders some people have. There has been a strong rivalry for the last few hundred years, including England ruling parts of France. Along with fears about the motives of the Germans following the war.

So there is a deep seated love hate relationship. But with the EU all this historic baggage was put behind us/them. Many people moved and worked freely around Europe including Britain, EU legislation has been very well thought out and is very progressive, but there are problems, as one would expect with a Union especially when they joined the Euro. But many British people were very happy with it and felt more European as a result. The sentiment to leave resided in a few minority groups, who gradually poisoned the discourse regarding the EU and our membership, boulstered by the immigration crisis during the Blair years, these forces grew and those who were content weren't aware of this, or didn't match it with pro EU sentiment, so were caught napping.

People didn't realise that the UK MEP's (UK EU representatives) had become populated by anti EU rebels, who insulted and criticised the EU continually for many years. Mystifying their EU counterparts.

Interesting the use of social media grooming ( minute17) and the way he lays into criticism of the Tory party at the end. Exposing the disingenuous motives of the Tory grandees who commissioned the vote Leave campaign.

A combination of a tribal fear of becoming a state in a united Europe and rightwing wealthy privelidged classes wanting to hold onto their wealth and move the country to the right, as opposed to the gradual move towards a more socially inclusive social democratic state which is the case in the larger EU countries.

So basically a tribal fear and the perpetuation of a rightwing capitalist agenda. Both of which were perceived to be threatened by the EU, or continued membership of the EU.

There is a kernel of truth in both fears, but the benefits of membership, provided we don't loose our autonomy far outweigh the risk engendered in these fears.

The shit has hit the fan in the UK, the growth of the virus in care homes is still growing rapidly and will probably outstrip the deaths in hospital rate over the next few weeks. Meanwhile when asked about this, the government squirms and claims care homes where their highest priority in this crisis. Somehow, I expect the details to come out later, infected people were shipped out to the carehomes from hospitals, probably when the NHS was trying to increase the number of beds they had available for treating Covid patients.

The problem is, how do we introduce a lockdown in the carehomes, to flatten the peak? We can't, because they were already adopting the maximum measures they could adopt and the death rate keeps accelerating.

This all falls inline with herd immunity philosophy, the weak are taken out of the herd.

You've got a lot of that mixed up there.

. They might not express it like me , but trust me, they fucking hate these liberal, middle class ,know-nothings.

Careful you'll be spitting teeth next. You've got what you want, politically, we're set to leave the EU without a trade deal, Corbyn is a laughing stock. What have you got to be angry about?

What the right wing rags didn't allow for is what these people on "building sites" are going to be angry about next. Now that they have got what they were demanding, what will these angry people have left to be angry about. They have to keep them angry because they've invested a decade of hard graft grooming them to that state.

The Daily Mail, The Sun, The Daily Express, The Daily Telegraph were all lining up to start misrepresenting the EU and lumping hate on them during the negotiations this year. But something's gone wrong, now they are turning on Johnson, the golden boy is going to be fattened up for the slaughter. But wait a minute, they've just spent a year telling all these people that Boris is the very definition of Brexit, he is the golden boy who is going to make Britain great again. They see more capital now in lumping the blame for the high death count on Johnson, than to soil themselves by supporting an administration presiding over the highest death toll in Europe and one of the highest in the world.

Did you know that Cummings's plan is for most of the old people in care homes to die, freeing them of the imminent NHS and social care crisis, which was going to bankrupt Brexit Britain.

I'm quite convinced that the timing is not a coincidence. I wonder what populist right driven campaign was backed by those same populist right rags and donors at the time that would allow the UK to stop implementing the agreement.

I don't think the whole Brexit thing was timed in this relation to the EU's actions, but rather the opportunity arose and the fanatical anti EU Tory grandees jumped at the chance. They had been gunning to leave the EU right from our joining in the 1970's. They couldn't believe their luck when Blair made the mistake of "unfettered access" for the new east European accession states in 2004. This was what the populist rags jumped on and the rest is history.

Interestingly in 2015 very few people in the UK were critical of the EU, had even thought of leaving, or thought it was a sensible thing to do. What changed during the following year? A populist campaign employing lies, political manipulation, xenophobia and fear of Turkey joining (our streets would be flooded with Turks). Pushed every day by the right wing rags and populists like Farage. And hey presto, all those people who weren't concerned about the EU, suddenly hated it and wanted to leave whatever the cost.

You are in a tiny minority, a hard Brexiter who is not wealthy, appears to be politically informed and place yourself where Rees Mogg is on the political spectrum. Really I should not even engage with you as you are in the realms of the looney right.

Do you accept that the referendum was won on the back, of lies, political manipulation, and whipped up fear and xenophobia?

Also, do you have an idea of what the UK economy will look like after a few years on WTO?

An interesting angle in regard to point 6 is the legislation which would limit the tax avoidance gravy train of the billionaire backers of the Tory party and owners of the rightwing populist rags.
Here is a summary of the legislation,
https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/policies/anti-tax-avoidance-package/?fbclid=IwAR2drGJ-E_lT16dgf0FcWS4bLPPNqyIOslxyXXCdK30o4a2iQdyLC3DQUzk

So the EU is a gravy train, well you'd better hold on tight because we're in for Trumpian scale gravy now that people like you voted these clowns into government.

Are you still happy with the way that Johnson and Cummings are running things right now? ( oh yes we'll have a brilliant trade deal now by the end of the year (with all the self same benefits of course) because the Covid crisis is going to focus the minds of the EU leaders, which Gove intimated today).

I can't wait for the new cliff edge.

The corruption card is a populist red herring. You'll have to do better than that

Globalism is really an excuse to exploit cheaper labour and have less stringent environmental/safety standards...and like you say it is the "right" that is rebelling whilst the virtue signally left stands by.

The right said bring it on, now they realise their own economies have been undercut by it, they are putting up the barriers. The left certainly in the UK have been in the doldrums and powerless unlookers during the charade.

Where have you been the last three years, I need someone to debate with. Brexiters are thin on the ground around here. I wonder why that is?

All thanks to a country where capitalism reigns and any kind of welfare state is an after thought. Even in Britain which is heading in that direction, the measures are going to mitigate against mass unemployment. Although the general slump will not be avoided.

If the cash evaporates as quickly as you suggest, then the only answer for the US is a universal income. Put the money where the hungry mouths are.

Trump's modus operandi is the political equivalent of the psychological disorder known as Munchausens syndrome by proxy. TDS is an extension of this adopted by his supporters.

The way I describe it is as if someone comes up to you and knees you in the leg, then immediately limps away claiming to any onlooker that you kneed them in the leg. You feel as if you've been mugged and if you then turn to the onlooker to explain what actually happened you look like the guilty party because you look unsettled and a bit tongue tied. Whereas the real attacker rehearses a well practiced routine of the genuine victim which at first sight is more convincing to the onlooker than the behaviour of the real victim.

Likewise the Trump supporter rehearses a well practiced position as an innocent victim of an irrational attack from a hater of Trump. In an environment in which the accusation of TDS is used at every opportunity along with accusations of fake news, alternative facts, labelling everyone who is not approved by Trump as a poor loser.

Trump then adopts the posture of a kind benevolent (successful) leader, kindly breaking it to everyone that these people with TDS are mistaken (weak) and resentful. This simultaneously implies that his views on the world and affairs is inviolable truth and everything else is devious conspiratorial attacks on this truth by Flawed individuals. The sleight of hand here is that he is fostering a political atmosphere in which everyone is morally corrupt, everyone is a liar, everyone is divisive in their actions. Then Trump and his supporters behave/pretend as though he is good, truthful, benevolent and a great leader. The classic behaviour of a confidence trickster while muggging someone.

Looks like there's a backlash against globalisation and it's the right who's gunning for it.

Careful you wouldn't want to knee the keyboard in the balls and give yourself a dead leg on top of your hurt leg ;)

Quite, and they are probably lining up Coronavirus to blame for the economic hit.
There are some big holes in this strategy though and a risk that they will alienate some of their support by pushing ahead while supposedly straining every sinew to save lives and livelihoods in the throws of a global pandemic.

James O Brian draws a comparison with some Brexit slogans, such as, "you lost get over it", now it could be, "they died get over it". Or the idea that according to Brexiters, it's ok to have economic damage in return for blue passports, whereas it's not ok to have economic damage and save lives in a global pandemic (some Brexiters have come out now to say that the lockdown is doing to much damage and we should get back to work).

I didn't know beige was so fashionable.

yes, she had been admitted initially, but then refused when her condition subsequently deteriorated. It looks like there was no consultation with the patient on the second occasion, just a blanket refusal.

There are many cases like this popping up in the media. There is surely some directive or instruction for frontline staff to refuse older patients from care homes. Perhaps the reason is that there is little point admitting elderly patients if they require ventilation for Covid, as it will most likely result in the patient dying anyway and occupy a ventilator which could be used for someone else. If this is the case, then poor communication, or instruction could result in all old patients being refused admission, or a lack of proper consultation with the patient due to age, or if they are in a care home. Resulting in the guidance being mis interpreted, applied.

Yes, I concur. I knew right from the beginning when they wheeled out Chris Witty that they were presenting groomed "scientific advice". Not that he is not a man of integrity, but rather he would have been groomed by the spin machine in Downing st.

Yes it's true, indeed when I googled it two almost identical stories came up, so this has happened twice to elderly women in the last few days. I have linked to this one, she was suspected of having Covid, which was probably why she was not admitted. The other lady definitely didn't have symptoms. The other story is in a toxic newspaper (The Sun), I won't poison you by linking to it.

https://www.channel4.com/news/revealed-elderly-woman-dies-after-being-refused-admission-from-glasgow-hospital

you might need to look a bit further back.

Yesterday Michel Barnier gave a speech pointing out that there has been no progress in the trade talks between the UK and the EU. That the UK team is not engaging seriously and repeatedly presents its dogmatic starting position as the way it is going to be, or no deal. The concerns presented by the EU negotiators are ingnored. Basically the talks are going nowhere and the UK refuses to discuss the possibility that the transition period might be extended, which must be requested by the end of June.

I saw an interesting story on the news lastnight which illustrates how things in our society can change over a few weeks from something horrible which could never happen, to something normal, that people may say is sad, or unfortunate, but which they nevertheless shrug their shoulders about and move on.

Here in the UK, there has been every few days someone on the media saying that the government has instructed hospitals not to admit elderly people who have symptoms like Covid symptoms. Especially if they are coming from a care home and that this is not right, it means they are left to die, in an environment populated with the most vulnerable members of our society.

Anyway in the story there was an elderly lady who had broken her arm in the carehome and the hospital refused to admit her for treatment for her arm because she was to old, she was 83. The reason was she was older than 65, suggesting that they would not admit anyone over 65 for anything.

She remained in the carehome and died a few days later. Now there is outrage that an old person with a broken bone was not treated and subsequently died. If she had Covid, no one would have cared. We have accepted that the government has decided not to prioritise the elderly in this pandemic, even though they are the most vulnerable group and that there is policy actively preventing them being treated. We know there is no point making a fuss about it because no one will listen, the government certainly won't listen and the media is already tired of it.

Is there a reason why NOS4A2 is being treated like this?

It isn't his manner, it's what he's saying. He so often trots out dogma from Trump's playbook and claims that those who call him out are doing the same from the Democratic side of the argument. Even people like me who don't live in the US, or take a side in US politics.

The principle modus operandi is, hey I'm not lying, look at the other guy he's the one that's lying. The aim being to paint everyone as lying, so there is no objective truth anymore. Cross this with "doublethink", claiming to support, or discuss both sides of any argument, so that which ever side looks most favourable following events is what you were predicting and supporting, all along. Etc etc.

And as a last resort, Oh, I was being sarcastic, so it's alright if I told everyone in the country to inject with cleaning fluid while thousands of fellow citizens are dying in the deadliest pandemic for centuries. I didn't mean it I was being sarcastic.

I doubt it, he could claim he was coerced. It has to be something weak* which he can't possibly blame on someone else.

It's interesting the thought had a president or prime minister could govern the country from a jail cell. During the Brexit debacle, the unlawful preroging of parliament, there was a possibility that the Prime minister could be sent to prison and his supporters were shouting that he would continue to run the country and have their support while in jail. Johnson didn't shirk from the possibility.

*any kind of mental aberration, or illness would be insufficient.

Was listening to a guy who was looking for something Trump could do which would turn his supporters away. The only thing which anyone thought could do it was if he was a closet gay, or bum boy. Shooting someone on 5th avenue, or saying anything at all wouldn't have the same effect.

I had been advising people to gargle on an alcohol solution, something you can get at most drug stores, or liquor stores. But now we have this new science around disinfectants, I've realised where I'm going wrong, I already gargle on Listerine, that's the way to go, I'm such a genius, I was already doing the right thing, I just need to gargle deeper flush my whole body through.

Spread the word.

Who should we rely on to advise us on public health issues?

We already have a guy, didn't you know, he's really great, his advice is beautiful. Really, really it's so simple you just flush the body, the inside of the body with this beautiful thing and it disappears.

For @NOS4A2: We Are Living in a Failed State

Nice article.

I do try to teeter on that fine edge between being profound and being absurd.

Have you revealed a hidden mystic in there?

Those memes sounds familiar.

Sounds boring. If you're stuck in the spinning swirling crashing death spin, you might as well enjoy the ride. Do you want your last breaths to be spent trembling and clinging to whatever you can hold onto until it too fractures into a million pieces?

It's the response of the unscarred soul that has never experienced true devastation, so it lives with the illusion that there really is stability to lose. True optimism is forged in trauma, so the most fearful are those who haven't ever felt walked in sufficient darkness, so they live their lives trying to avoid it, which only leads them to something worse. It's that frigid timid place of worry and fret where you hold onto whatever makes you feel stable, despite you're not realizing that whatever it is you hold onto is infinitely more fragile than the divinity impregnated in you. If you'd only step away and stand on your solid feet, you'd realize that is the only thing that won't falter.

Sort of an interesting post I think?

Such an excellent description of Trump and you didn't even know you were doing it.

It’s wrong to assume immigrants only occupy low-grade jobs.

Are you sure about that ( to the extent that it is relevant o the argument).

But if a company has difficulty attracting workers they need to become more competitive on the job market.

It's not that simple, it's the kind of work. British workers won't do these jobs even if they are paid twice as much.

NOS4A2 is in on the con, he knows that Trump is all things to all people, a snake oil salesman. The way it works is he says both sides of a political argument so that he can claim the credit for which ever side comes out on top. This way he can do no wrong in the way eye of his supporters. Say he's asked to call the toss of a coin, he will say both heads and tails like a confidence trickster and then which ever way the coin lands he will claim he said that side.

If you are in on the act, it all makes sense and you can support it because there is a hidden agenda which is being furthered while he is politically successful.

I know all this because the exact same thing has been going on in the UK, so I have two equivalent examples to analyse.

But US citizens won't do those low grade low paid jobs. It's the same problem we've got in the UK. Now large numbers of Eastern European workers have gone home, which the Brexit backing government was urging them to do. UK citizens aren't stepping in to fill those low grade jobs. A consortium of farmers is chartering planes to bring in seasonal workers from Romania to bring in the harvest, because The British workers won't do it. Even though the Brexiters have been assuring us for two years that UK workers will fill these vital jobs.

Evidence of a lack of joined up thinking.