I don't think that the reason had anything to do with Brexit. Besides, I think Johnson hasn't been a similar early denier like Trump was on this issue. If you've followed the discussion here we've talked about the similar policy that Sweden is still following on herd immunity option. They aren't leaving the EU.

On the surface Johnson sounded rational at the beginning, although there is no denying his response was quite low key, for a long time flights were not restricted, passengers weren't checked, the only message was if you have arrived from an infected area, or you have flu like symptoms, make your way home (while interacting freely with the population) and stay there for a week. Followed by a week of saying wash your hands, wash your hands, oh and masks are ineffective.

All quite benign stuff, a balanced moderate approach. But look beneath the surface, the new government which was elected with an 80 seat majority in December literally was the Vote Leave campaign team. The group who hoodwinked the public into voting to leave by claiming there would be hoards of Eastern Europeans and Turks flooding into the country, as Turkey was supposedly about to join. That the migrants already here were the cause of the crisis in our struggling public services, forcing house prices up due to a housing shortage and pushing wages down. The team which masterminded a blizzard of biased and false social media posts, adverts and targeted messages during the last few days before the vote in 2016.

These were the people who had just got their feet around the table in Downing Street as the virus emerged. They were poised to have an almighty row with the EU during the negotiations and make an all out assault on the British constitution to remake it in the image of some Machiavellian fantasy of Dominic Cummings. Cummings had spent 30 years as a radical anti EU campaigner to get to this position. It was the crowning glory of his carrier and just as he reached his goal rumours started spreading about some new virus on the other side of the planet.

It kept getting in the way and the government tried to ignore it to begin with like the spectre at the feast, it warned of global pandemics and social an economic collapse. They had to stay focussed on their modus operandi, to talk the economy(which was struggling) into a good place, to spread the optimism of "make Britain Great again", to negotiate tirelessly and win a great new trade deal with the EU in just a few months. To pull us through a teetering crisis, which the Brexit debacle had become. A Herculean feat.

This was what was going on under the surface when the government adopted its moderate response to the pending outbreak of the virus. Their first concern was to keep the economy on track, so everyone would carry on as normal while we would prepare for heard immunity, which would naturally minimise the impact of the virus in the country. Then the theatened pandemic chaos would go away and they could keep to their Brexit course. If they took hard measures to keep out the virus from the beginning, they risked crashing their whole modus operandi and the economy at the first hurdle. The government would collapse, Brexit would be lost and socialists would get their hands on No10. A total political disaster right at the beginning of Johnson's term in office. He would become a national laughing stock and the privelidged classes would face the wrath of a socialist government.

It was certainly a small price to pay, to lose a few hundred thousand of the countries most vulnerable and old people to preserve all this. Indeed, if all the old people die it would help the Brexit utopia by eliminating the pending social care funding crisis.

Why would'nt Johnson follow the kind of draconian lockdown adopted by countries like China and South Korea?

Plus I admit to not totally grasping the Brexit stuff.

Not many people do, well except the people who still want it to happen, but they've got their heads firmly stuck down some rabbit hole somewhere.

And so I talk to myself also, living out my own myth.

So you are a mystic after all ;)

There is a popular myth in the UK, that the EU is the enemy, that Britain is great and that we must take back control immediately whatever the cost. Indeed the team assembled to fight for the leave vote during the EU referendum in 2016, namely, Vote Leave, is now in power in No10.

In fact this myth was so important that it was going to be worth the loss of a million or so people from Corona so that we could stay on track with Brexit and surge ahead with a strong economy. Hence the herd immunity debacle, which was the official UK policy at the beginning of March. Even now this myth is so strong that the government is still insisting that the UK will leave the EU come what may in December, after the transition period, even though there evidently won't be any reasonable opportunity for an amicable trade deal to be agreed during this period. So even now that we are going into a recession equal to the Great Depression, we are still going to jump of a cliff afterwards, because the EU is so bad.

The only reason why we are not continuing at full pace with unfettered heard immunity strategy is that the experts told the government that if the hospitals become overwhelmed the death toll would be much higher than if measures were taken to reduce the peak. Something which they couldn't live down when it became exposed in the media.

Fortunately they have finally woken up to reality, Dominic Cummings has run away and they are beginning to knuckle down to dealing with a serious crisis.

Myths are powerful indeed.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-coronavirus-china-republicans/2020/04/03/baa149de-74fc-11ea-a9bd-9f8b593300d0_story.html

It's pure fabrication, let's say the Chinese shouted it from the rooftops right at the beginning, no administration in the west would have done anything to mitigate the pandemic. We know this because they had the opportunity to halt its spread after the Chinese did alert the world and they didn't take it. If they had grounded all flights at the beginning it could have been stopped. But they were caught napping, just as they would have been if the Chinese hadn't tried to cover it up.

Yes, the militants in No10 put a hard Brexit before the health of the nation. The economy was key to that, because there was a risk that if the economy unraveled Brexit could be cancelled, or worse Corbyn could get in and deliver a soft Brexit and level up the country.

I would describe it more as sort of allowed it to happen, looked the other way.

I listened to an interview on radio4 earlier today with a careworker caring for 65 elderly people in a carehome. She said in a calm accepting voice that over two thirds were showing symptoms now and that she has some protection equipment and that there was help available if needed. The assumption was that they would all die peacefully there, rather than waste resources in the local hospital.
This state of affairs was accepted by the interviewer, an interviewer who wouldn't let such an issue pass her by ordinarily.

Have an insincere apology with your data. Mix it with the news that care homes can only test 5 people (Most carers move between homes) and only when someone has symptoms, and old folks are being encouraged to sign non-resussitation forms and not to expect to be taken to hospital, andI wonder if you are drawn to the conclusion I have reached, that government policy is to spread the virus amongst the old and not treat them.

Yes, this is the hidden policy of the UK government. It kills three birds with one stone, clears out all the geriatrics and health compromised, solves the looming social care funding crisis, and removes the biggest pressure on the health service. "Just get it done"

It clears the way for a rip roaring independent GREAT Britain, Singapore on Thames. This is what those people voted for in December.

Your area looks a bit damp for my liking.

Nice, reminds me of New Zealand, I've done lots of tramping there.

100,000 is an extremely low figure for a country like the US whose medical system is extremely disjointed and given the freedom of movement people have.

Yes, to keep the figures this low, the whole US will need to go into lock down immediately. It looks like this is not going to happen for maybe a week or so. Once the virus has got a widespread foothold it is very difficult to prevent the spread because it becomes pervasive. This is what happened in London during the few days before the lockdown, the spread would have been exponential and infect large numbers in just a couple of days.

I see the same mistakes being made all across the US.

It's high transmissability might be related to its long life on inanimate objects. We'll know after more research, I guess.

Yes, this occurred to me, it can apparently last up to 72 hours on a hard surface. I also think it is very sticky like it's covered in Velcro. So if it gets onto door handles, hand rails and key pads which large numbers of people touch regularly. It will spread far and wide rapidly.

Yes, I am aware of what is going to happen, not just in India, there are many large cities around the world totally unprepared and under resourced. The wave of panic which will come before the infection could be equally as destructive.

Yes, I'm envious, perhaps as much of the climate, as the landscape. There is nice landscape here, but it's often not warm, or dry. I feel as though we have been living in a mud bath for the last six months.

Lions lead by donkeys.

563 deaths in UK in the last 24hrs, it's been exponential for the last two days. Also 4,300 new cases (recorded) over last 24hrs. Fortunately no sign of the ventilator beds being overwhelmed yet, it could happen in the next few days if this degree of increase continues. There is a 4,000 bed temporary hospital (the Excel centre) coming online in the next couple of days. I think they only have 500 ventilators though, due to the shortages.

I'm very interested in what the hiking is like where you are. Here we are only allowed to walk in the vicinity of our house. I am surrounded by agricultural farmland. There is a nice nature reserve about 2 miles away. But I have plantar fasciitis at the moment so can't walk more than a couple of miles. It's such a shame, We would be going for long walks otherwise.

Hang on in there.
(not literally).


I'm not an alcoholic, I'm actually going the other way. So I might brew all that wine and then not drink much of it.

I heard the same and that it actually lingers after recovery. I'd sell your whiskey collection before it's too late.

Yes, but my local auction house is closed now. I do have a similar thought about antiques, they might become devalued for a generation, or permanently.

I brew my own wine and have planted about 30 vines recently, so will be self sufficient soon.

I have a similar experience, I live in a quiet place in the countryside. I work mainly from home and have plenty to do as it is a small holding. There are no reports of anyone in my local town having the virus, so life is normal, apart from most shops are shut and there are social distancing measures at the supermarket.The shelves are nearly empty though, so we have to be a bit creative at meal times. I will be growing most of my own vegetables over the next few months.

Our social calendar has been cancelled, but it's hardly noticeable, as there is still communication. My wife works for the government, so she will have full pay for the duration. I can still work, but don't need to.

My only hardship is not being able to buy flour, so will try grinding some of my chicken's grain in a coffee grinder. Also we cannot go travelling in our camper van for now.

People in the UK are talking about a loss of smell and taste as a symptom. Some people have tested positive with only this symptom. It makes sense, as this can be a symptom of the common cold.

trivial, but it really is frustrating to just want to be home, like just be at home, and then have to either make small talk, or awkwardly remain silent every single time you have to go to the bathroom or make a sandwich

I know that feeling, maybe the solution is to reach some degree of friendship with her. Through laughter, or mutual appreciation of something. I know that this might not be possible if there is some kind of personality dissonance.

"One has to undress from all the coverings, clothes, curtains, masks, and meaningless chattering that still stick to one’s being when one is severed from others."

Sounds like a meditative state.

Meanwhile Johnson returns to cabinet following his isolation.

New for this response, I expect.

Manufacturers are talking about a new kind of breathing device in the UK, called CPAP. Mercedes formula one team, are beginning manufacture. It provides pressurised oxygen, keeping the lungs inflated and aiding breathing. Also it does not need the patients to be sedated. It can be manufactured quickly and in volume.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52087002

Trump brags about his ratings, claiming stable genius in saving the American people from the Chinese virus. And snubs prince Harry, no special trade deal now.

Good day at the office.

A spike in Tokyo now, perhaps the lack of testing failed to pick this up.

Yes, but when and how are such countries going to assist poorer ones?

I don't think any government had any choice in the action they took, each developed country has gone the same way, except those where religion trumps all other considerations. There is some variation in the action, but the result is the same.

Regarding the tentative relaxation of the measures. I can't see any timely progress, as each time there will be another spike. Although there is great uncertainty about how this will pan out. Perhaps Italy will give us some hope soon.

India is very worrying, there are simply to many people in a mainly poor unresourced country.

My uni halls had single and shared rooms. I had a single thankfully.

I lived in a caravan next to a field of pigs, rather than pay rent and spent the money in the pub.

I agree with your concerns here, especially with the recent trends towards protectionism. I think more support for undeveloped countries will be called for once large numbers start dying in those countries. But, due to the rapid infection rate, it will be to little to late. Most developed countries are doing to little to late for their own populations already. We should look to how China, South Korea, Singapore etc for how to go about it.

I don't think we will be over the peak anytime soon, in the UK the experts announced yesterday that the lockdown is expected to last for at least 6 months, with only tentative attempts at relaxation of measures towards the end of this period. Personally, I expect it to be for a few more months than that before significant restrictions can be lifted.

While in these kind of lockdowns, developed countries won't be able to offer effective support to other countries experiencing difficulties. China may come to the rescue, but I doubt it, or that they may only be able to help a few countries.

I worry about Gaza, it's not going to be pretty, and who would help, would the Israelis end the blockade to help, I doubt it.

Sharing information is what will save us not destroy us. They’ll be conspiracy theorists as usual but the positives far outweigh the negatives imo.

We’re better off talking to each other. I cannot think of any situation where discussion and information sharing doesn’t have more benefits than deficits.

If there is a real chance of civil unreast, the authorities will control information. Also with panic, once you have let to cat out of the bag, you can't put it back in again easily. The public is still calm and sleepy, while worried and a bit alarmed, it won't take much to push them over the edge. In London the situation is fraught, a disgruntled population becomes more difficult to nudge into effective social distancing measures. Meaning you need the army on the streets. They will want to avoid this.

It might be time to consider the government control of information. This does usually happen during wartime conditions. For example, there is none, or very little mention of the conditions in Iran in the mainstream media, or many other less developed countries. Perhaps media becomes ineffective, or suppressed in such places. Our intelligence services might be aware of more severe outbreaks, but it is being kept secret from our populations, so as to prevent panic.

Also it has occurred to me how fragile the state of the food chain is in my country (UK), even now most supermarkets have many empty shelves and they are struggling to fill them. It is this bad with only maybe 50,000 infections (again, we don't know how many). What about when we get over a million and the key workers involved in this supply chain start to fall away (not to mention a staffing crisis in healthcare). Such problems could emerge in the media in a sensational way causing mass panic. By this point, it would have to become an army operation with rationed food supplies only available from specified depots.

There have been reports today of unreast and civil disobedience in Italy, as a result of the population being confined to their homes.

Hopefully, we are near the peak and once developed countries have got the spread under control in a manageable way. They will be able to develop resources and begin to donate them to the less developed countries and help them to get it under control, so as to reduce the adverse effects of an exponential growth curve in their countries. But this I fear is the optimistic view, from where I'm standing, we are not near the peak yet as there are only a few thousand infections in each country, out of millions. I think it is much harder to prevent spread than has been comprehended, without a total control of the population as we see in Wuhan.

The other reality is that less developed countries will become endemic and then, as you say, keep infecting travellers. Unless an effective vaccine is developed.

After the economic destruction do you think this event will stop people looking for quick, easy money or help oil the chainsaws and invite the miners in.

The economic plight from this could wreck and ruin far more than people seem to appreciate.

My remark was flippant, but there is a grain of seriousness in there, Bolsanaro (who presumably survived his infection) is fully intending to destroy the forests as it is, so I can't see it getting much worse.
In reality we have no idea, were this will end, or what will rise from the wreckage. A much smaller Global economy will reduce the rape of the planet a bit, as its full steam ahead at the moment.

China will end up far more dominant, I expect, so it's going to be mobile phone surveillance for all of us.

Wtf? I wake up to #Brazilcannotstop. Criminal.

Good thing, they were about to flatten the Brazilian rainforest and do maximum exploitation.

But I will suspect it will get worse before it gets better in the US. The populace is not the healthiest of communities and the underlying conditions are the biggest killer.

Quite, and the obesity and borderline diabetic epidemic is a liability.

So what do people think about Trump's new idea:

President Trump said Thursday that he planned to label different areas of the country as at a “high risk, medium risk or low risk” to the spread of the coronavirus, as part of new federal guidelines to help states decide whether to relax or enhance their quarantine and social distancing measures.
What regions is talking about? States? Lower level cities, communities and counties?

It's already to late.

A step in the right direction, in my opinion. I think a sort of juggling act between lockdown and tentatively opening the economy is the reasonable approach.

Do you watch unpartisan media at all? There are hotspots developing in all the large cities across the US, in a week they will all be overwhelmed like New York is today. This juggling you mention is the hope for a few months down the line when the first big wave has passed.

The argument is that we can take precautions—social distancing, hygiene, testing and protecting vulnerable populations—without having to end the livelihoods and enterprises of people throughout the globe. We certainly don’t need to do it based on the speculations and models of people who overestimate their ability to tell the future.

Yes, you pay them the equivalent of a universal income and put the economy into stasis. Then reboot it later.

The important thing is that you maintain social distancing, otherwise you are accepting that pile of bodies in the corner.