If it's not justiciable then short of a violent rebellion, what stops a malicious government from proroguing Parliament indefinitely? For the sake of democracy the judiciary must be able to rule on whether or not its intention and length are lawful.

It looks like this has not been tested before and so the Supreme Court will have to set precedent. I expect it will rule that the executive will have to be accountable to the judiciary, as otherwise a prime minister can silence the very parliament he or she is accountable to at will, exposing a gaping hole in our constitution. Normally the time this would take would not be at issue. But in this case, it is the longest prorogation in peacetime for hundreds of years, at the same time that the clock is running down for a massive constitutional change. I would trust that Dominic Grieve will win the day on this one. Particularly in the light of the ruling on Monday that the government must provide all the correspondence relating to prorogation by last Wednesday( now expired), which the government has failed to do.

Its not very detailed, it looks like a summary to me. I wonder what point 15 is about.

Here is a more racy cartoon from the day Rees Mogg went to Balmoral.

↪Punshhh I both love and hate your non-standard rotation."

I hadn't thought of that, in the EU they rotate in the other direction.

"One criticism though; the buses are missing the "£350 million" sign.

Yes, I try to keep the cartoons simple, I have a tendency to put to much information in them.

Hey Trump, do you want to buy this real estate? A bargain basement price.

As I thought Johnson and Rees Mogg have committed treason.

Just working out how to upload photos, this is a cartoon I did lastnight

The Boris bridge from Northern Ireland to Scotland will save the day. Maybe someone should point out to him that both ends of the bridge might soon be in the EU.

Boris is going to build a bridge betweeen Northern Ireland and Scotland, so that someone can travel between different parts of the EU without having to travel through England, when Ireland is united and Scotland leaves the UK. How thoughtful.

Or maybe he is very cunning, he will claim ownership of the bridge and charge a toll.

He's proroging at the first opportunity, while demanding an election. Both tactics which are pushing for a process leading to a Queen's speech. Ideally for Johnson, before 31st October( which is why the government had a hissy fit when The opposition didn't support an election). This exposes his position regarding a deal. He wants to bring back May's deal with ( which the speaker won't allow during this session of parliament) the backstop confined to Northern Ireland. He will then bring it back to the commons during the week before the deadline and present the MPs with a cliff edge, a deadly serious deadline this time, and try to force it through. Unfortunately in order to get it through he will need a lot of Labour votes. Something which is tragically impossible, at least with the current parliament. Also there is an open goal for a vote of confidence, which Corbyn can call at anytime, after the prorogation period, unless he sneaks it in this evening before it.

However if he gets his general election before the deadline all he has to do is agree an election pact with the Brexit party and he's laughing, or so he thinks. Because it will result in a fatal split in the Conservative party.

The opposition smells a rat and won't agree to an election until after the deadline, which fatally weakens Johnson, as the Brexit party will then demolish the Conservative party. Thus ushering in a Corbyn government.

Frankly, at this level I would like to expect EU politicians to be above such cheap tricks.

I hope you are right. I worry about president Macron, he has political tensions at home, any sign of weakness might not go down well.

Yes, I bear that in mind, and I apologise to that "third", I didn't mean them.

Thats ok, this illustrates the problem of populism, it generates divisions where is there are none, by exploiting moderate human behaviour.

For example Johnson simply needs to meet the EU leaders and insult them in person and they will find it difficult not to respond with an insult and to then grant the extension which he doesn't want.

It sounds like Johnson's plan B is to cock a snook at the EU at the summit in October and hope they take offence.

They are the people who didn't vote, either they don't know, or can't vote, or won't vote perhaps.
I expect a proportion of them are looking on in horror, and some are so bored they just want to jump of the cliff, just to end it.

Just let them sober up and then we can consider letting them in again but without all the undeserved benefits they are enjoying now

Bring it on, anything is better than this. Remember it is only about a third of the population that has been brainwashed, another third is looking on in horror and astonishment.

The only way I can see the government getting a deal is if the backstop applies only to Northern Ireland with a border down the Irish Sea. But even this is not going to be possible now for the government, as it requires throwing the DUP under the bus.

The only sensible way forward, if we are determined to leave, that I can see is if article 50 is revoked for the purposes of holding a border poll in Northern Ireland and returning to Brexit when that has been sorted out. I know how difficult and divisive this could be, but the cold hard facts are coming to the surface now and the leavers will have to face them.

Well there is another solution, which many in the Labour Party would support is remaining in the single market, so there would be no need for a backstop. But if that is the case surely it is better to remain in the EU, so as to remain a party to the legislature of the EU, rather than in a limbo where we don't have a voice in the EU.

Which everway you turn there are intractable problems like this. More cold hard facts for the leavers to chew on.

Theresa May's deal was actually a really good deal, it managed to dovetail the possibility of an independent trade policy with close alignment with the single market and customs union and with an end to free movement. Preparing the way for an almost seamless move into an implementation period. A serious document which had been hammered out in detailed and close negotiations for 18 months. If we were leaving I would have been happy with it.

There are two reasons why we have ended up in this pickle ( well apart from the failure to work cross party which I have already pointed out).
1, the impossibility of squaring the circle of the Irish border problem and squaring the circle of an independent trade policy, while retaining a close relationship with the EU. Something which has become more and more evident as time has gone by.
2, the rabid hard Brexit ambitions of the ERG, which was never going to accept any deal, while having a stranglehold on the government.

I'll let you into a secret, THE ENTIRE BREXIT PROJECT IS A TRAGIC FRACTURING AND PSYCHO DRAMA WITHIN THE CONSERVATIVE PARTY. Everything else is collateral damage. This has been developing and is well documented for over 40 years.

Nice.

Yes, I was hoping for this, Amber Rudd is a fatal blow.

Nice meme lol.

It's looking as though Boris is spent, there are more Tory MPs considering their positions this weekend. Due to actions like prorogation and removing the whip from Tory MPs. As I see it if Johnson tries to pull a fast one now, then he will loose support from another group of MPs and will be so weakened that it will clear the way for a no confidence vote and an alternative government being formed. All my worries about him breaking the law or sculduggery are evaporating.

Can’t deny that. But she did negotiate a Brexit deal, agreed to by the EU.

But perhaps worse than that deal is they’re giving up their one remaining bargaining chip: a no deal Brexit.

As has been pointed out a no deal Brexit ( no idea Brexit) is not and never was a bargaining chip. The EU have always asked us what we want, but we have failed to answer the question. Once the question has been answered the EU will come to a generous accommodation, which protects the four freedoms and doesn't cherry pick benefits enjoyed by members who subscribe to the four freedoms.

The talk about a no deal was always for a domestic audience, to somehow force people to grant what Theresa May was going to present. Or more to the point to appease the rabid leavers in her own party, who were gunning for a no deal right from the beginning. And now with Johnson it is the aim, to leave with a no deal, because if we don't the Conservative party is toast.

Agreed, the hardliners will have to be pulled kicking and screaming out of office. They are like headless chickens ( no pun on Corbyn intended).

One of which is that either by breaking the Benn law or by simply not appointing a commissioner, No deal can still be possibly accomplished. Alas, the idiotic democrats refused the no-confidence motion and government of unity that could have taken control... might be too late now.

I don't think it's to late for the government of unity yet. The important thing is not to table the vote of no confidence to soon, because there is a risk in anything which dissolves Parliament and allows Johnson to squat in No 10. Parliament must be sitting until after the extension is achieved.

I have heard rumours that the EU would not automatically expel us of we fail to appoint a commissioner. Regarding the Benn law, provided parliament can sit until the extension is achieved, they should be able to check, or bypass any attempt to break the law.

ah, but have they told the EU?

I know, but in the eyes of this group of Tory's it's the fear of a Corbyn government alongside their own haemorrhaging of support to the Brexit party which drives their push for a no deal.

So you have a perfect storm in the minds of these people

I would happily vote for the the Lib Dems or Labour, (I am a Green Party supporter) as the economy needs repairing and I have confidence that Corbyn would start the work to repair the country.

Yes, I am sure the EU will grant an extension if a general election is called. They realise that there is a crisis in the UK which requires time and patience to resolve and they don't want to be perceived as responsible for a no deal Brexit.

Which seems to me to mean that the UK is going to *have* to cancel Article 50, or face the economic consequences of crashing out, which will almost certainly provoke a severe economic downturn.

Yes and I would hope the government would revoke, but as I said earlier it is much deeper than this. The government has lurched to the right and is now expressing the demands of a group of Tory's who are fighting to save the Conservative party. This is far more important to them than what happens in the Brexit crisis. They would revoke today if it saved their party, but the only hope in their eyes is to leave without a deal and hope that support for the Brexit party would begin to wane and die as people realised that the Brexit party had no purpose any more.

They really are rabid, because not only are they fighting for the soul of their party, but they see looming on the horizon a Corbyn government, which in their eyes would be a living hell just as bad as a worst excesses of a no deal Brexit. Precisely because at least in that no deal Brexit they, the Conservative party would still be there to help clear up the mess. If Corbyn is there and the conservatives have died, their whole world falls apart and the soul of the country is lost.

yes, if an extension isn't granted article 50 ends and the UK ceases to be a member. It's all in the gift of the EU.

Sorry I was still typing on my last message while you posted.

Yes, but if this law is passed, Johnson will not be able to leave with no agreement. It’s all bluff and bluster.

He can, leaving without a deal is the default position at the moment, it requires action to prevent it.The fact that it is illegal in the UK for the government in the UK to "leave without a deal" is irrelevant to this.

For example Johnson could go to the EU summit in October claiming he is going to request an extension and abide within the law and disappear on route ( get in a car and drive to a secret location and hide until after 31st October). The extension would not have been requested and we would leave without a deal. The Queen could request the extension in his place, but she may decide not to interfere in politics and let it happen rather than get embroiled in political chaos.

One might say well that's ok, we can just go back to the EU and say sorry about Boris, he acted illegally can we forget it ever happened and have that extension anyway. But the chances are they would not be able to grant this, or they would not want to. Or they might say only if you revoke, or yes ,but you loose your special privileges( which are considerable).

In these circumstances the chaos and division would be ramped up far higher than it is at the moment and we would be on the street and edging closer and closer to a civil war.

Still can’t get Brexit through even 3 years later. Remainers like to pay lip-service to democracy while opposing the will of the people at all costs. Let’s see how long they can disguise their authoritarianism beneath their glittering generalities.

Its the breath taking incompetence of Theresa May and the ERG which has left us in this mess. The opposition was happy to work out a cross party Brexit deal and would have voted it through ten months ago.

That's the worry when it's a test of virility. Perhaps Rees Mogg will have to step into the breach with his Mogg spreading

Yes, it sounds like the opposition has a similar view. I heard someone remarking on Johnson's phrase "do or die", saying that if we don't grant him an election, then its die rather than do.

Yes its all very promising and the parliamentary process of resting control from the bexiters. But the problem is far deeper, you will need to step up a gear, the government is in the control of an ideological cult. They will do anything to push us over the cliff, including breaking the law, fake news, Trumpism. They are rabid and the opposition has to prepair for the worst of these tactics because it is not worth the risk. This is why I said in my last message we could well find ourselves on the streets.

I'm hoping that if things break down to far, or Johnson does something tragic to avoid requesting an extension from the EU that the EU will grant an extension by some other means dealing directly with parliament.

I woke up in the night spitting cartoons of Johnson's head on a spike and coughing up voodoo dolls of Boris (I am a satirical cartoonist in my spare time). But then the thought that I should keep my head down or some right wing radical might seek me out, came over me, followed by the thought that we may soon be on the streets if this madness continues.

Apparently Johnson is going to demand an election today, which he overwhelmingly doesn't want. Goading Corbyn to agree to one on 15th of October. Corbyn appears to be teetering on the edge of granting it, while the vast majority of his Labour colleagues are trying to pull him back from it and wait until the extension has actually been granted. This is clearly the right strategy, because if they don't agree to an election until then, Johnson is powerless and sooner or later his sham of a government would be exposed and he would probably break the law.
Whereas if he grants an election on the 15th, parliament is immediately dissolved, parliament is silent and powerless while the Johnson is let loose to rampage across Whitehall, change the date of the election do whatever he wants.

The fate of our country rests in Corbyn hands over the next few days, give him strength to hold his nerve.

I've just heard Johnson's first PM questions, a rip roaring performance of bluff and bluster. In which he managed to insult nearly everyone and both claimed to want an election and not want one in the same breath. Apparently Johnson is the best of friends and partners with all the European leaders, while Corbyn is a friend of all the worlds despots, and emulates Venezuela, indeed he is Carackers. Oh and also the only chlorinated chicken in the house.

Corbyn asked repeatedly for him to publish the revised operation yellow hammer report which was to be published today by Gove, but which was pulled due to being too alarming for the public. He didn't answer and waffled on like some drunken outdated bar prop.

There are always too many servants, except when there are not enough.

Well said.

Yes, most will suffer economically from leaving the EU, and the influx of immigrants will continue because there is a need for them in the market. The only difference that there may be, is that they might not all come from the EU.

Most of the leavers I meet as a poll clerk can take the hit, they are mostly retired and asset rich.

I agree that the Polish are being unfairly targeted. There is an issue with the numbers of EU citizens who have moved into areas like East Anglia. I have recently visited many of the regional towns in Norfolk and Lincolnshire. While walking around the streets about 90% of the people I pass, or hear are polish, or are speaking polish. As many as half the shops are polish, or aimed primarily at polish customers. I don't have a problem with this, although it does seem a bit strange, when I remember how those streets used to be. But I do sympathise with the indigenous British residents who feel they have been taken over by foreigners and I can understand why such areas voted so strongly to leave the EU.

This situation is purely demographic, however I don't see it as a membership of the EU problem specifically. There are other ways to address the imbalance in such places and leaving the EU may not stop the flow of foreigners. It is fuelled primarily by market forces, which are not going away if we leave the EU.

It seems to me that no matter how bad or stupid a politician or idea is, the BBC can be trusted to normalize and promote it in the name of journalistic objectivity.

Yes, for example the way they legitimise Farage. If you want to get a deeper insight I would recommend James Obrian on LBC. 10.00 -1.00 weekdays. He's not on today, but tomorrow's show should be a good one.

Great, I watched Johnson's statement, it was pathetic, very Trumpian. He's going down.

Yes, I know, but I'm in south Norfolk, in 2017 the Tory's got approx 35,000 votes, Labour 15,000 and the two other candidates less than 1,000. Most of East Anglia is a Tory stronghold.

I am a poll clerk in a rural area and am used to the elderly farmers banging on about polish immigrants and their Tory credentials.

Brexit per se. I mean, it's not a matter of voting for one side that supports Brexit, and another side that opposes it

Yes, Johnson wants to give the electorate a choice between a hard Brexit with the Tory's and a disastrous Corbyn government (economically) which will also keep us in the EU, or half in half out. This sneaks a hard Brexit through under the fear of Marxist Labour policies. Also it drains support from the Brexit party, pushing the Tory's over the line.

Labour won't agree to an election until a further extension is agreed with the EU (until 1st Jan'), they realise that if Johnson calls for an election this week and they don't support it , Johnson is left helpless with no way to turn, the emperor has no clothes.