There are percentage of certainty attainable in accurate maths value if the data was available. For instance, I am looking at tomorrow's local weather forecast on the internet. It says it will rain at 12pm with 40% of certainty and at 3pm 90% of certainty. The forecasters surely have done some observation on the weather data via satellite monitor weather system, the movement direction of the clouds, the speed of winds etc. They must have apps for calculating the certainty in percentage.

But there are cases, as you pointed out, the calculation is impossible, but people still use statements such as - I feel 90% great today. I mean where is the data to utter such statement apart from just feeling great in most areas of life although I have some stress in finishing the project in time back of mind, or feeling rough on my back muscles due to heavy work in the garden ...etc.

Also there are cases, where certainty in percentage don't apply logically, because the topic belongs to in the realm of faith and belief such as Gods and souls, reincarnations - because it has no physical evidence in anywhere under the sun, apart from in the literature or religious text books. People could still say I am certain that souls exist, or reincarnate after deaths, it just means he has faith in existence of such entities or phenomenon, and believes in them - but most people will not take the statement as a truth or certainty.

I was talking about the people in the family. It started with 1+1=2 people, but later through time and the process, the member in the family became 4. The added 2 originated from the already existing 2, not added or come from outside somewhere. In this case, could it be said 1+1+1+1=4? It would be rather 1+1 (later +1+1 never existed before the original 1+1=2) =4

For other example, you get 2x separate bricks, and glue them together with cement mortar, it becomes 1. So 1+1=1 not 2.

Thanks for the links. Interesting read. :up:

Of course, things change, and even 1+1 =2 is not certain truth.
1 man and 1 woman married and became 2 people in the family. A few years later they had offsprings, and the family became 3 and then 4. So was 1+1=2 true? No, 1+1 became 4.

So all certainty is subject to change by time, or situation or process be it natural or artificial.
Certainty is not something that is absolute and fixed concept. It is relative and changeable.
You always get percentage of certainty. Some certainties are more certain than other certainties.
Therefore I suggested "All life on the earth will die eventually." was one of the 100% certainty. Because it is a conclusion derived by billions and billions of examples in millions of years of historic records, the biological facts of lives + the on-going processes happening right now. There maybe other 100% certainty cases, I am sure.

But Gods, souls and reincarnation? Where is your data? physical evidence? witnesses? Nothing? You must recourse to faith and belief.

In that case I'd say I'm completely certain of many things. But importantly, I've been completely certain of beliefs which have turned up false. So I'd draw a distinction between certainty and knowing that my knowledge is true and infallible. — Moliere

There is again difference between bogus certainty and genuine certainty. Just because one felt something was certain, does NOT mean it was truly certain.

I have never witnessed souls either. I am an agnostic regarding the existence of Gods, souls, reincarnation, resurrection, karma, etc. — Truth Seeker

Yeah, when it comes to having faith in / believeing in God, souls, reincarnation, resurrection, etc, there is no room for certainty. Because there is no certainty, one has to have faith and belief in them.

Relevant?

Philosophy is the only tool which enables us being critical, reasonable and analytic about the world, life and existence. All other subjects are just accumulation of facts and imagination (art, literature). Science is just superstition and religion glorified with the so called "scientific methods" i.e. hypotheses, experiments and observations. Technology is just a child of science destined to be outdated and replaced with the newer technologies, which will in the end, contribute to / result in the end of the planet.

All beings devoid of Philosophy are just comedian.

If souls exist, it is possible that souls reincarnate or resurrect after death of the body. I don't know if souls exist or not. — Truth Seeker

When the word "Souls" is uttered, it indicates the speaker is already speaking from religious or artistic literature point of view, which is based on faith / belief / imagination, not fact or knowledge.

I have never witnessed detached souls reincarnated from dead bodies in real life. I have read about souls in fictions and poems and religious texts.

How would I know if others really exist? How would I know if others are really conscious or are actually philosophical zombies?

Eventual death of all life is definitely more certain than doubts on other beings existence or consciousness from general induction.

Please bear in mind everyone ever born on the Earth have all died, and are still dying even at this moment.

And not knowing something doesn't have relevance with more certainty or less certainty. Your not knowing something just means you don't know it.

100 % just means 100 out of 100 cases?

"“Per cent” means “out of every 100”. Percentage figures are derived by dividing one quantity by another with the latter rebased to 100. Percentages are symbolised by %. Besides being especially useful when making comparisons, they come in handy for studying a difference compared with a benchmark or initial value." - Google

Thank you Javi for remembering me :D I have been busy with the other hobbies which are electronics, music and gardening.

For death of every life on the Earth, I was not so sure in the past. When I was a child, I believed people die, but they come back or resurrect next day - because I have seen a film, and the actor was killed and the film ended. I saw another film with the same actor but different role, and I recognised him, and thought to myself, wow people die, but they resurrect no problem.

As time goes by, and you get older, and you notice that was not true. Truth is that, everyone dies eventually, and they never come back forever.

Thank you TS for your good topic. Unfortunately that is the only fact which I am certain now, which will take place in the real world as time passes by, as a truth. The rest, I am not so sure.

The fact that everyone will die one day.

In philosophical discussions definitions are useful, so what is time? — val p miranda

Time is a psychological product such as feelings, awareness or perception. It doesn't exist out in the world.

Measurements of time result in a number, so in this sense time is mathematical. — val p miranda

Measurement of time is a measurement, but not time itself. Mathematic is a mapping tool for time.

Art, especially music can distract from the pointlessness of existence. But then, even they become pointless in the end.

Maybe death is the only way for total distraction from the the pointlessness of existence.
Life is presupposed with the pointlessness of existence. It is fundamental fate of life. Life cannot exist without the pointlessness of existence.

Comfortably Numb by Pink Floyd, play along by Corvus.

Why nit? Can't I jump in the Mississippi twice? — Hillary

I think he meant that the river you jumped 2nd time was not the same river as the one you jumped first time.

It has been said well before Plato time, by Heraclitus "You cannot enter the same river twice." By the way, I have never met Plato in real life, but just intuiting the time of his living from what I read on some of the books.

Yeah, if it worked that way, then guitar playing would be impossible. I struck a chord to play the Eagles song, but it goes backwards and the sound die out, and so on ... it never happens fortunately, logically and rightly in the real world. :) So, guitar playing is possible.

But cause and effect you mentioned, and the topic had been much discussed by Hume. I think he said that causality doesn't exist. It is, just like time, an intuited entity from your habit, of seeing some event(s) and what follows immediately after the event. You keep seeing them and happening the same result every time the event happens first, and you get the idea of causality. Would it be correct to say that it is just the way how time works? :)

We could have felt it the other way round. Effects preceding causes. — Hillary

Any real life examples for effects preceding causes? :)

Precisely! But don't they perceive time then? — Hillary

They feel time, but it is different from visual or audible perceptions.
It is kind of intuition, or feeling rather than sensory perception.

What humans perceive are just physical entities and their motions and changes. They also intuited time from their perception of the motions and changes? So I feel that time is an intuited entity. It is not physical existence, which can be turn back or forward like the scenes of youtube videos. :)

I would count sheep. 3600 sheep an hour, 72 000 twenty hours, etc. In sleep that's difficult though. But one thing would be sure. It will be later than when I went in! — Hillary

What we have is just present moments, and every single moment becomes past in our memories. Future is just imagination stemmed from present awareness and memories of the past. When one dies, the whole thing and the world disappears to the dead, to nothing and everlasting darkness and silence, which is eternal non awareness. Only the living ones keep playing the guitars and hear the sound. The dead ones cannot hear anything, feels nothing and doesn't know what time is. Time is just perception. :)

It's the question we would survive, but I guarantee you that time would move like a snail, and we probably be bored to death. I read that they once put rats in an empty cage from birth. To compare with a rich surrounding. (speaking of torture...). It may come as no surprise their brain, the connections between neurons, and their size, was less. I could have told them that from the start! You would now no clock, of course not. Time, on the other hand... Just throw a guitar in the box and time flies! :smile:

I like the tones of these standing waves (getting lower when you lay your finger closer to the box hole). — Hillary

If you insisted, time exits, and we somehow agreed upon it does, then it must be mental existence, rather than anything physical. OK, there are motions, changes and historical events, but they are all your perception. Without the perception, they don't exist. I think that is what Kant must have meant, time and space is human intuition, not physical entity. :D

Sounds reasonable! I wished I could see it like that. Indeed, when all life has gone, time and space are gone. Only black silence... And then... what's that sound...? Is it a guitar...? What lovely sounds! Aaahh! It Corvus, on the eternal guitar! Great thing not, the guitar! Timeless! :smile:

I wanna buy an electric one. It looks so easy, playing on them. With a headset for the neighbors and going fully fledged in the weekend. On Sunday morning... — Hillary

OK, for example, let say not everyone is dead, but let's say that you were put into a box, and buried under the ground with no clocks or watches or phones or anything - you had years of supply of water and food and the air to breath. You are in total darkness and no sounds or lights on your own for a few months. Would your be able to know how much of time has passed when you tried to guess?

Or more extreme example, if you were put in the box since your birth up to now, would you know what time it is now? Would you be able to tell how long since you have been in the box? Would you even know what time is?

Yeah, guitars can sound pretty good. When you are playing guitars and enjoying yourself, you hear the guitar, but you don't realise time passing. Because time doesn't exist. :)

Corvus practicing electric guitar

How's the guitar play? :smile: — Hillary

It is good fun. I like practicing it because it is a discipline that I can absorb my mind into it, and aim to improve. I like the tone of the guitars - guitars can have all sort of different voices depending on what genre of music you like to play to, and there is a universe in guitar finger boards - countless combination of melodies, riffs and chords that make up tunes in the little board with the frets.

I will try to put some of my guitar practice video links in the lounge forum. :)

Yes. The clock to capture time with, is a human invention. But time itself, the irreversible natural processes flow from less to more global entropy (with local reduction as on Earth). Aint processes flowing? The question is though, why not from future to past? — Hillary

Why not from future to past? Because it doesn't exist. Time is just illusion. All there is, is just human memory. If every human died today, then tomorrow there would be no time. Just silence and nothing. I
think it is what Kant said too - about time.

Space and time is nothing but a form of human intuition according to Kant. I think he is correct.

So COVID had it's good sides as well! :smile:

I'm not sure why you think time doesn't exist so can't move either. Doesn't the Sun shine longer in the summer (in the northern hemisphere) than in winter? Doesn't the clock show, say, 8 hours in winter and 16 in summer (with or without clouds)? — Hillary

Yeah, every cloud has sliver lining as they say. :)

The Sun shines longer in the summer than in winter, because of the the angle of the Earth changing on its rotation to the Sun. That is not time itself. That is just a phenomenon resulted from the physical structure of the planet Earth's motion and the Sun light.

Human perception notices it, and postulated time from the phenomenon. They even contracted lets say 1 year is the Earth's rotation around the Sun to the exact spot, and they went on diving a year into 12 months, and month to 28 - 31 days, and a day to 24 hours etc. Time is a human invention. It is just a contract on durations and intervals.

To make that statement, one must be already living. Because one is living, the part of the statement saying "to never exist" becomes just a supposition or wishful thinking. The living is reality, and non existence is a supposition. Is reality better or more meaningful than the emotional supposition?

Thank you for remembering me :) These days I have been in the house for working, reading and practice guitar playing etc. So it is now a lot more flexible time thanks to COVID.

I feel the motion of planets around the Sun, and Sun rise and sets are just means to postulate time, but they are not time themselves. Their motions are just intervals - intervals which are regular, hence human perception can rely on it for measuring duration of all other things. But time itself, I feel is an illusion, which does not exist, and it certainly has no direction, therefore no movement at all.

I dont think time is flowing. The hands of the clock move though. So motion is time. Periodic motion is the clock, irreversible motion what it measures and quantifies. — Hillary

I don't think time is flowing either, and it is not motion. Motion is not time. Motion is just motion.

But how then can particles move towards each other or repulse each other. If there is no time they can't move. — Hillary

I don't see any logical connection between time and particles or whatever moving. What is your basis for the postulation on the two? Things used to move without your imagination or postulation of time when you were a child, do you recall that? Now you are postulating time for the movement, because you have read something on time, and imagining that it is flowing or moving forward.

Time doesn't exist. It is just human psychological awareness of intervals on durations and moments in memories. No humans, no time.