due to the fact that modern philosophy and culture has no concept of there being degrees of reality — Wayfarer
I don't think we have any grounds to say we have different modes of perception. — AmadeusD
1. Evolution and trends
2. Trends and ethical principles derived from them (THIS POST) — Seeker25
These are all objects, hence the above. I think you're talking about perceiving our interactions with objects, which appears direct. True, and its possible we are 'directly' touching the cup. But our perception is not of that interaction. It is a representation of it. — AmadeusD
Sleep is defined as a state of unconsciousness, making these claims a bit dubious to me. — AmadeusD
If we could, somehow, access an object in some way other than via the means of human perception (this appears metaphysically impossible - implicit in my wording), then we could compare the workings of both. But, we don't have that, so we can't make any 'a priori' claims. Though, it seems i meant "nothing to go on" apologies for that mis-step. — AmadeusD
I understand/understood hte claim, and based on my own parochial understanding of Kant, my replies flowed. My responses (you'll perhaps see after this) are direct responses to that position). I think the premise is wrong and so the argument unneeded. — AmadeusD
If anyone could prove the existence of God, there would be very few atheists. — Hyper
It may be (as I think I lean) that human minds are literally empty at inception. We learn concepts through having them foisted on the mind. There's no reason to thinkt he mind is incapable of assenting to a concept like space, given it could not function without it, in the world (this, obviously, assumes space as a facet of reality outside of minds - which I think is uncontroversial, myself). — AmadeusD
I don't think we can make this claim, because sans experience of an object without human perception, we have nothing to go on. It may be (as I think I lean) that human minds are literally empty at inception. We learn concepts through having them foisted on the mind. There's no reason to thinkt he mind is incapable of assenting to a concept like space, given it could not function without it, in the world (this, obviously, assumes space as a facet of reality outside of minds - which I think is uncontroversial, myself). — AmadeusD
I'm quite unconvinced we can make any kind of claim like this, and is principally why I can't get on too much with Kant (along with his boiling-down to God for his fundamental conclusions, in terms of regression). — AmadeusD
Huh? I've spent considerable energy in this thread arguing against the concept of physically "proving" metaphysical entities, like gods. — LuckyR
And yet, you didn't understand that, "the bricks that make up the sentences are not the actual words themselves," was a figure of speech :chin: — night912
You didn't prove that the word exists. All you did was proved that the representation of the word exists. — night912
I was just suggesting a direction for you to take in case you are interested in seeing the physical proof of God's existence.Huh? I've spent considerable energy in this thread arguing against the concept of physically "proving" metaphysical entities, like gods. — LuckyR
Since you have joined the thread, and spent your considerable energy arguing, you still need to prove why you are not proving anything.So, no, I don't need to define anything, since I'm not proving anything. — LuckyR
I already gave out my proof.You? — LuckyR
As to whether gods are metaphysical, they are by my understanding, — LuckyR
the bricks that make up the sentences — night912
the bricks that make up the sentences are not the actual words themselves. — night912
Presuppositions are conceptual in nature. — Joshs
What motivates and guides the search for and organization of data? How do we determine what is actually data and what is irrelevant? — Joshs
As I said, it is a well-known concept; there is actually a wiki on it. I would start with that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory-ladenness — Pantagruel
Observation takes place through an apparatus of perception, which includes not just telescopes and microscopes, but conceptual apparatuses of interpretation. — Joshs
Observation is historical thinking sounded vague. From the common sense, observation is perceptual act looking for data and collecting data from the phenomenon in the world. Not quite sure what you mean by observation is theory laden either. All thought is the product of its history of conceptualization? It needs explanation as well.This basically says that observation is theory laden, so all thought is the product of its history of conceptualization (including observations). — Pantagruel
Perhaps you could elaborate further on the points from the original text?Fundamentally (observation is theory laden) it's a pretty basic concept. Collingwood expands upon it considerably. — Pantagruel
My point is that many things we deal with routinely and without controversy also don't possess objective existence. — LuckyR
Rather, the dollar only has value because the vast majority of humans consciously agree that it has value, that is, it has no intrinsic or objective value. Similarly, gods definitely exist as entities through agreed human belief that is, as intersubjective entities (like nations, corporations and economies), though not objective entities, as you noted. — LuckyR
What do you mean by historical thinking?‘observing’ facts is really historical thinking, — Pantagruel
Could you elaborate further? What numerous presuppositions for what, and why?a complex process involving numerous presuppositions — Pantagruel
Absolutely. Models don't exclude the modeler and the modeled, they unite them. — Pantagruel
Also simulation or modeling can only be of that which is observed else it would be simulation or modeling of nothing. — Janus
Is Germany an entity? How about Apple corporation? How about the US dollar's value? Intersubjective entities are entities. — LuckyR
We'll credit this to an enthusiasm fueled by maybe wine. Silliness from a bottle - unless the bottle is you. — tim wood