But we’re not talking about facts. — Brett

Yes you are.

For all those avowed atheists out there; if God and the beliefs in God’s existence and actions have no validity, no claim to truth, then what truth have you replaced them with? — Brett

Information that is valid, or truthful is called a fact.

Yes, for believers God is a fact. — Brett

So it is a belief. Not all beliefs are truth. A god, Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy, the Easter Bunny, Yeti, Atlantis, easy money are some of the many things people believe to be true. How many of them would you consider to be facts. Based on the proof available for each of them I would guess that they all have the same chance to be so.

I don’t know how they would have come to that conclusion. Would that belief be from birth? — Brett

There are people that are never given religious education, that would mean that they never had what you call truth. Belief in god is not something that comes at birth, it is drummed into the young as they grow up. So why would anyone need to come to a conclusion, you believe what you are taught to believe until something changes the way you think.

No, I mean truths.

If, however, “atheism” is defined in terms of theism and theism is the proposition that God exists and not the psychological condition of believing that there is a God, — Brett

So the preposition that god exists is true, not a belief. Does that mean that one should not believe the truth?

Then what is that? — Brett

Would that not be different for the individuals the stop believing.

But you have failed to take into account that many people that are atheists never believed in any god, would that mean that they never had any truths?

Over time more and more people have come to believe and insist that God does not exist. Some people have grown up with idea of God’s existence then repudiated, for whatever reasons, that possibility. — Brett

So you mean morals and beliefs, not truths.

It’s hardly likely, though maybe possible, for those people to then exist in a vacuum. So what instead have they filled that vacuum with? — Brett

If they have stopped believing then whatever convinced them that they were wrong would be filling the space.

For all those avowed atheists out there; if God and the beliefs in God’s existence and actions have no validity, no claim to truth, then what truth have you replaced them with? — Brett

Why would one have to replace anything?
Why would it be necessary to replace something that you never had?

perhaps heaven is the absence of sensory frustration. — Rxspence

Please explain this. I cannot see the connection between sensory capacity and gender specification.

Do you live in Afghanistan? — Hanover

Nope, Honduras.

My life dream is Winterbury Bed and Breakfast. — ArguingWAristotleTiff

I had this idea a long time ago, to start a place for visitors to come and stay for a couple of days. There used to be a lot of young Americans and Europeans backpacking through here. But when the country hit the most dangerous place to visit list at #1 I gave up on the idea. Maybe things will change.

If no one talked on the other forum, what did you do there? :worry:

you

Night time dreams, I cannot remember them when I awake.

The I have a dream type, a world where people have figured out that if you don't bother other people they will not bother you.

We can make it all fit by a selfish abuse of language and anthropomorphism (in a selfish poetic coup d'état). — Nils Loc

How selfish of you to write this all by yourself. :up:

I had asserted that everything is selfish — TheMadFool

Selfishness being a state of mind, makes this statement nonsensical. Only things that have minds can be selfish. Most of the stones and buckets I have met are not in the least selfish, quite the opposite in fact.
I did not read the original post, and I am not inclined to go and do so. So could you give a little of the context in which you used "everything is selfish". What were you referring to?

Procreate and balls should not be used in the same thread, please take note for the future well being of the forums morality. :wink:

Suspiciously Russian sounding words... :chin: — The Opposite

Vaca, Spanish cow

Goytsz, BS

I'm not sure what you mean, but I was referring primarily to radio 4 and the World Service. — jamalrob

I don't get to hear radio 4 around here, not available. While the podcast are available, I can honestly say that I have no idea what most of them are about. The ones that are about news, things that are happening either locally in England or internationally, I would rather read about in the news pages where they have images or videos.
I have no idea who most of the famous guests that some of the podcasts have, probably because most of them are were not famous the last time I was in England.

For instance, early this year I read a book about time travelers and Boudica was mentioned. I have a bad habit of looking for information about the places and people that appear in the books I read. I even use Street View to look for the places sometimes. I looked for information about Boudica and found a BBC podcast about her. After listening to it I was a bit disappointed, entertained yes but not informed.

Think of it like talk radio. If you've ever enjoyed listening to that, then you'd enjoy podcasts. In fact, there are many BBC radio podcasts. — jamalrob

I used to love listening to the old BBC radio shows, but I am not really a fan of the talk just to talk style that is used so often today an the radio.

what are your interests? I tend to listen to podcasts based on my hobbies/interests e.g. this one: — The Opposite

Most of my interests do not have much that could be said in a podcast. Whilst I am a good audio learner I prefer visual aids as well. They would have to be videos, or at least contain images. I do a lot of handy work in my spare time. I have built several houses so I watch and read material about construction and related topics.

I also like to watch some of the TED talks and I have found good supply of lectures for free online, lots of which come with visual/written references.

I prefer audio books, at least I know that it is either 100% fiction/fantasy or a researched work. The few podcasts I have listened to were not very satisfying.

Is that really a question that you would like others to answer, or just you lazy, cheap, wanker personality spilling out? :lol:

I would guess you are in your early twenties, live in a reasonable size city, have a boring no future job or studying something with the same prospect and are addicted to the internet.

One of the best ways to spend your time would to do some reading, another might be to do some outdoor exercise. Having an interesting job is a great way to pass time.

Bad ways to spend time would be what you call good time, self pleasuring.

God is a He because he wears the pants in His household. Or, his wife "fell down a set of stairs" after her kids were born and this has been kept a secret. — Nils Loc

He/she/it could not have kids, that is why she/he/it had to send his cronies to screw up the life of a poor virgin.
They don't have stairs in heaven either, shit man how could they get any further up.

The kids still wonder, if God is like a man, why did he make women? Are they the less favored of the natural binary? — Nils Loc

I believe if god is male, then god must be gay and that the only way he could have kids was by being a sperm donor. That fits the story better than anything else I have heard.

is a formula not a fact if it is true? Is the truth not revealed by fact? — Benj96

I love my wife, that is a fact, but the truth depends upon the definition of love does it not.

As in, many people believe quicker is better, — Outlander

That may be true for a person that wants things, a lady of the night would certainly agree with you. But just ask the missus for her idea of the truth.

Facts are not always historical. That would mean that nothing in the present moment is a fact because it isn’t historical it’s present. — Benj96

The sun is shining would be a fact, if indeed it is shining at the present moment. Ask the weatherman if the sun will shine tomorrow. Of course it will he will answer, somewhere.

Facts are always historical, but not all of history is fact.

Please tell me one future fact.
Example: Trump will leave the White House sometime next year.
Is this the truth? Yes, because the public decided his sorry ass needed to be kicked out.
Is it a fact? Who knows. Maybe he will buy the bloody thing.

What is truth? — Benj96

Are you confusing truth with fact?

Prayer might help folks psychologically stabilize when they perceive to have very little control over their lives. — Nils Loc

Or allow them to blame everything that is wrong on the will of their god and ask for help to fix the problems they have caused. Lots of the people that have problems because of the storm here were told to evacuate with plenty of time to do so, no they prayed that someone else would be affected instead of them.

Just watched a mini doc about kids growing up in the gang ridden districts of Honduras. Faith makes more sense to me in such situations because the most people can do is hope for good outcomes in the face of senseless violence and poverty. — Nils Loc

It always fascinated me how that works. Some of them say that joining gangs is the only way for protection, like maybe god some how would be useless even after praying. Some do it because they get a chance to be violent and for the money they make from it, and pray for forgiveness. The parents always deny that the kids have anything to with gangs while enjoying the benefits and cash of the kids and carry on praying like good catholics.

Something else that always makes me laugh is the football players that pray and cross themselves at the beginning of the game and thank god for the goals they score. Like any god would think it worthwhile to let one side win over the other.

From the standpoint of Plumb's faith and or personal beliefs, are the Mormons headed for a reward in the afterlife as much as the Jehova's Witnesses insofar as any are righteous exemplars of their faith? — Nils Loc

I would think that after a life of being deprived of coffee the mormons would get all they could drink in heaven. And maybe they would be allowed to enjoy some "free from guilt" sex along with the jehova's witnesses, but not as much as the muslims with their harem of virgins .
I always wondered where the virgins came from, are they made on site or is it because there are so many virgins that actually get to heaven?

Or are other Christians on the wrong path? — Nils Loc

They are all on the wrong path, every single one of them.

Right now we are suffering the effects of the tropical storm Eta. We have had 4 solid days of rain, There are floods all over the place. Rivers have over run, houses, roads and bridges have been destroyed. And what are the people doing? Praying for the rain to stop.

How can anyone believe in the existence of god, or that the evidence of its existence is all around us.
What kind of a fucked up being would deliberately create something like the earth and its inhabitants.

If by "happy" you mean pure self-indulgence, I don't see that as a very meaningful end or that true "happiness" could be reduced to pure indulgence (if that was the case, then I'd venture that our Neanderthal ancestors would have discovered the secret to "happiness" eons ago, and that no modern existential thought on the subject would be necessary). — IvoryBlackBishop

No I was not talking about pure self-indulgence, I was talking about simple masturbation. The act of making yourself happy sexually is no different from taking a stroll to relax, or going dancing.
Any of the good things in life can be overdone and become obsessions or vices, but that does not mean they they are evil.

It actually gets better farther down.

5
I am the Lord, and there is no other,
besides me there is no God;
I equip you, though you do not know me,
6
that people may know, from the rising of the sun
and from the west, that there is none besides me;
I am the Lord, and there is no other.
7
I form light and create darkness;
I make well-being and create calamity;
I am the Lord, who does all these things.

I think it is obvious who is to blame for how badly fucked up the world is now, he admitted it long ago.

Do all Christians have a correct orientation to this one true God, even though they belong to different cults? — Nils Loc

All of the monotheists believe that they and only they worship the one true god, the rest are devil worshippers, pagans, savages and so on.

It would see exactly the same thing, because that is what is there to see. Whether it sees it in color, infrared, or as any other sort of energy wave would depend on its sensory ability.
How would it interpret what it saw would be the important question.

Yeah, whatever. :smirk:

You do not accomplish anything in a debate just by saying that others are wrong. If you want to do something productive you have to show them why the are wrong. You have failed.

I've heard that Emanuel Kant believed that masturbation was a violation of "moral duty to the self" or something along those lines, but I'm not sure what his line of logic or reasoning was. — IvoryBlackBishop

He was a wanker, don't believe anything he said.
How could the act of pleasuring one's self be a sin or crime. Is it not true that one must love thy self before being able to love another. And what greater love of one's self that making one's self happy.

Well at least you have a reason to make sure you get back here, I have the last post now.

A dictionary definition doesn't make it the truth and that is the whole point. — david plumb

No one mentioned truth, if you do not know the difference between a definition and truth then you should keep away from forums like this.

Dictionaries should not be seen as prescriptive nor restrictive, but they are descriptive. They show the accepted ways to use words.
Again I invite you to show us an acceptable definition of god that superheroes fit into. If you cannot do that, then all of your humble opinion is self delusion.

Personally I still believe that kids and even adults are able to see these super heroes as gods or even God if they have little belief or understanding. Everyone probably needs a greater being that allows them to make sense of the world but it's probably not useful for that to be a religious version, as in God. — david plumb

You are allowed to believe what ever you want, but that in no way makes me wrong nor closed minded. the burden of proof is up on you. Evidence is what will prove you point. Show us some.

The behaviour of those "worshipping" ( feel free to misunderstand this vital phrase) is similar to those who worship gods or God. — david plumb

Just a couple of examples, not possible situations but something that is actually happening in the world would be nice to see.

They see good v evil, they see a saviour when all else fails, they are educated in the rights and wrongs of life, — david plumb

No, the see a bunch of guys and women with strange costumes(mostly tight pants), with weird colors and shapes. They see people doing the things that many of them dream of doing, being strong, flying, being able to burn the nasty neighbor with a glance. But they also see the superheroes having to hide the things that they do not want others to see, just like them.
I do not think that even one person that goes to see a superhero movie would actually think of praying for Superman to come and save them from a mugger, the school bully or a tyrant boss.
And to say that people are educated in the rights and wrongs of life by a superhero movie would be similar to saying that people are educated in the customs of foreign countries by watching movies made there. Or maybe that Monty Python is good for political education.

they understand the existentialism of the scenes played out to them and they are excited at the drama and wonder of it all. Just like a religious person is about God and Jesus Christ. — david plumb

I am sorry, but you really do need to explain to me how you came to that conclusion. I have no idea.

You won't understand until you get there, I guess. Most of us live sheltered lives unaware of the realities of life's underbelly and in Aleppo your priorities will be nothing as you will spend all your time avoiding death. All very depressing. — david plumb

Once again, what the hell has Aleppo got to do with the price of jellybeans? What do you even know about the place? Have you been or lived there to be able to say that it will have that effect on a person?

When you say that most of us live sheltered lives, are you talking about me or yourself? If it is yourself, then it is probably understandable how you came ridiculous conclusion.
If it is about me, then I have to tell you that you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about therefore it is also understandable how you came to this ridiculous conclusion.
If you are talking about you and a lot of other people that you presumable know a lot about, then all I can sat is that I am glad that I do not live in the same places as you. The people must be very depressing.

One last time, I am not going to reply unless you answer some of the questions and skip the BS.

:up:

Interesting that you talk about a new definition of God as though your knowledge is the correct one. From what I can see so far your definition is a simple one, one that sits well with those that need the conclusions to fit in with their closed mind perceptions. Clear your mind of pre-conditioned bias and open your mind to the possibilities. — david plumb

Seriously, there are several definitions of what a god is. If you look in several dictionaries you will probably be able to find most of those definition. The dictionaries help us to define the properties of a god, so that we can decide whether something would fit into that category.

For example, if you look up the word "chair" you would find several different definitions. What is common to all of those definitions is that they list the types and properties of a chair.

1. A seat for one person, with a support for the back
2. The position of professor
3. The officer who presides at the meetings of an organization
4. An instrument of execution by electrocution; resembles an ordinary seat for one person
5. A particular seat in an orchestra

So if I call the thing that my backside is resting upon a "chair" then surely it would be expected to fit into one of these definitions.

If the thing I am sitting on does not have a back then it does not fit into the first definition so I must either find another name for it or continue to demonstrate my ignorance by calling it a chair still.

While it is common for people to use words incorrectly and for the words to change their meaning if enough people actually continue to use it in a certain way. A really good explanation of this is given here.
The Secret Life of Words:
English Words
and Their Origins
Anne Curzan, Ph.D.

It is really well done, but she has a bad habit of pausing before the last word of the sentence. There are several others that I can recommend and if you are interested I might be able to provide for you.

But there are some words that cannot have their meanings changed without losing the principle significance of the word.
What would happen if people started calling trees "livewood"? The word is obviously correct in its concoction and connotation. But it removes an essential part of the societies concept of the object. People hear or say "tree" and the image of greenery, shade, woods and forests comes to mind. Live would does not do that and probably never will. I seriously doubt the idea that people even over a long time will start calling trees by any other name.
So tree, chair, god have many definitions. But those definitions exist because they are the accepted uses of the words by the society that uses them. And they are written in dictionaries as guides to there usage.

You are trying to put a square peg into a round hole. Show us anywhere there is an acceptable definition that your use of "superheroes" fits into.
If you cannot do this then it is obvious that you are changing the definition to suite your purpose.

This worries you? That seems a tad primitive. A day in Aleppo would sort the cobwebs out for you, nay make that an hour. — david plumb

Yes it worries me, fanatics are often the cause of great strife to societies. And confused fanatics that write God with a capital G and then say that superheroes are the new gods would probably be worse.

It is strange that you mention Allepo, do you live there or have you been there? How or in what way do you think that it would remove the cobwebs from my mind? Allepo had serious problems, a lot of them cause by religious factors. Maybe they need to change to superheroes.
I am not up to date about they situation there as I tend to spend more time observing what is happening in the place I live. It had the highest murder rate in the world for several years. The highest violent death rate for a non-combatant area.

Presumably if we met I would have to call him Sir. — david plumb

"Manners makyeth man" - William of Wykeham. — david plumb

:smirk:

An explanation of that would be interesting. — praxis

He does not have one, the only way that he could explain it is by saying that the word god has a new definition and that unless you believe him you are closed minded. He does not even have the new definition of god to give us.

Proof that God exists is there for all to see unless you rely solely on your senses. Proof is not a simple process of scientific data. — david plumb

This worries me, he believes that "God", with a capital G exists. What doe that tell us about him?

So your whole argument comes down to the fact that you have changed the meaning of god.

Transfer that to the God/super heroes question. To you God has x.y and z as you see it but to others the definition of God may not necessarily have the x,y and z as you see it but to them it is God per se. — david plumb

So then to make it easier on you, provide some evidence that others are using your definition of god instead of most common, standard, sited in every dictionary definition that everyone else uses.

GOD
1. (in Christianity and other monotheistic religions) the creator and ruler of the universe and source of all moral authority; the supreme being.
2. (in certain other religions) a superhuman being or spirit worshipped as having power over nature or human fortunes; a deity. "a moon god"

The super heroes of the movies do not even fit in the second category, because no no worships them as having any power over anything at all. They have no effect on peoples everyday lives such as the rain gods are supposed to have.

The fact that the State is using the movies to mind wash the idiots just as they have done with the churches for centuries speaks more to the stupidity of the people than the astuteness of the people running the State.
Supermarket commercials do as much in controlling the masses as any superhero movie does. Do you remember the commercials for cigarettes and booze back in the 60's and 70's, so many people would have thought those actors were gods according to your definition.

If you can do nothing more about proving any of the statements you have made by showing some examples of just how people consider the movies super heroes as gods when they sit down to watch a Superman movie after church on Sunday then I have nothing more to discuss.

:chin: I like his way of thinking, but it is too late to hear it all today. 20 mins. left for tomorrow.

This months books
The Lady Astronauts series. Mary Kowal
Secret Journey to the Planet Sarpo. Len Kasten
Dumbing Us Down. John Gatto
The End of the World Runnin Club. Adrian Walker
Calling Bullshit. J. West & C. Bergstrom
Hitlers Secret Jewish Psychic and Other Strange and Obscure History

Approximately 7,821,493,909 people in the world.

Approximately 44,236,745 people in the world that have been infected.

As immunity builds in the population, the risk of infection to all – including the vulnerable – falls. We know that all populations will eventually reach herd immunity – i.e. the point at which the rate of new infections is stable – and that this can be assisted by (but is not dependent upon) a vaccine. Our goal should therefore be to minimize mortality and social harm until we reach herd immunity.

Doing the math it will be a long time before enough people have been sick for it to make any difference.