A surveyable representation, an übersichtlichen Darstellung , (alternatively translated as perspicuous representation), a representative overview is said to be of fundamental importance. — Fooloso4
I did not want to get into the problem of translating übersichtliche Darstellung.At this point I think it would just muddy the waters. — Fooloso4
This seems to be Peter Hacker’s translation. — Joshs
Careful
you don’t mistake Hacker’s reading of Wittgenstein for the correct reading. — Joshs
Ultimately, I think that is off topic unless you can explain. — Antony Nickles
We fail to understand what the ordinary is until we understand why philosophy wants more. — Antony Nickles
That philosophy claims that everything is before us does not mean it is already understood. — Antony Nickles
I've tried to piece it together myself but I'm at a loss — Antony Nickles
To-day, then, since I have opportunely freed my mind from all cares and am happily disturbed by no passions, and since I am in the secure possession of leisure in a peaceable retirement, I will at length apply myself earnestly and freely to the general overthrow of all my former opinions. [Meditations, 1.1]
He who lived well hid himself well.
But the point of moral deliberation is to attain a state of knowledge from which we can act virtuously. — Hello Human
So, if I understand, we must put in continuous effort to make the right choice, and that right choice is knowledge? — Hello Human
The point of view that Witt is claiming is that the method and tools of philosophy are in plain sight. — Antony Nickles
My point was only that philosophy does not achieve this through empiricism but through understanding how and why we desire and create the picture that anything is hidden. This is not "ways" of seeing things, but a singular way that is different than traditional philosophy. — Antony Nickles
Ordinary is a descriptor of our language and expressions and their senses (uses), which is only truly understood against the expressions of traditional philosophy and the senses of our words that it manufactures. — Antony Nickles
When as in this case, we disapprove of the expressions of ordinary language (which are after all performing their office), we have got a picture in our heads which conflicts with the picture of our ordinary way of speaking.
An example of the use of wonder as curiosity would be one wondering about how something came to be, the answer of its (hidden) cause. — Antony Nickles
Tractatus 6.44 It is not how things are in the world that is mystical, but that it exists.
the "complete clarity" (#133) at the end of philosophy (each time) is not the answers of science, but making aware our lives right before us. — Antony Nickles
A main source of our failure to understand is that we don’t have an overview of the use of our words. - Our grammar is deficient in surveyability. A surveyable representation produces precisely that kind of understanding which consists in ‘seeing connections’. Hence the importance of finding and inventing intermediate links.
The concept of a surveyable representation is of fundamental significance for us. It characterizes the way we represent things, how we look at matters. (Is this a ‘Weltanschauung’?)
Aristotle thinks that knowledge begins with experience. We get to first principles through induction. — javi2541997
It means "coming face-to-face with" something, and it belongs not to the dianoia, by which we make connections and figure things out, but to the nous, the contemplative intellect. [Joe Sachs,The Battle of the Gods and the Giants,12]
But this is science and empiricism (repeatability by anyone allowing for stability and certainty). — Antony Nickles
What a Copernicus or a Darwin really achieved was not the discovery of a new true theory but a fertile point of view. (CV 18) — Fooloso4
“Ordinary” in this sense is like a technical term — Antony Nickles
Is this to remain mysterious? — Antony Nickles
...or just to end the discussion? — Antony Nickles
if that is unwanted I apologize. — Antony Nickles
...unless you believe the Court has the power to enumerate the unenumerated rights ... — Hanover
you cannot hold abortion to be Constitutionally protected right under the 9th Amendment. — Hanover
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people. [9th amendment]
They are our ordinary criteria ... — Antony Nickles
... but the sense of wonder you are thinking of ... — Antony Nickles
The right to privacy was found to encompass the right to an abortion, and the right to privacy is NOT an enumerated right. That means that abortion, under Roe, was found to be based upon an unenumerated right. — Hanover
There is a long and evolving history regarding the right to privacy in the United States. In the context of American jurisprudence, the Supreme Court first recognized the “right to privacy” in Griswold v. Connecticut (1965). Before Griswold, however, Louis Brandeis (prior to becoming a Supreme Court Justice) co-authored a Harvard Law Review article titled "The Right to Privacy," in which he advocated for the "right to be let alone."
Griswold and the Penumbras
In Griswold, the Supreme Court found a right to privacy, derived from penumbras of other explicitly stated constitutional protections. The Court used the personal protections expressly stated in the First, Third, Fourth, Fifth, and Ninth Amendments to find that there is an implied right to privacy in the Constitution. The Court found that when one takes the penumbras together, the Constitution creates a “zone of privacy.” The right to privacy established in Griswold was then narrowly used to find a right to privacy for married couples, regarding the right to purchase contraceptives. [https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/right_to_privacy]
Now you're just making stuff up. — Hanover
In the early 1970s, when lawyers representing the state of Texas argued Roe v. Wade before the U.S. Supreme Court, they argued that a fetus is a person. [https://time.com/6191886/fetal-personhood-laws-roe-abortion/]
Texas's lawyers had argued that limiting abortion to situations where the mother's life was in danger was justified because life began at the moment of conception, and therefore the state's governmental interest in protecting prenatal life applied to all pregnancies regardless of their stage. The Court said that there was no indication that the Constitution's uses of the word "person" were meant to include fetuses, and it rejected Texas's argument that a fetus should be considered a "person" with a legal and constitutional right to life.
This makes absolutely no sense. It is the legislature and the legislature alone that has illegalized abortion. — Hanover
Of course it supports the overturning of Roe. He indicated that the Court lacks the authority to declare the unenumerated rights implicit in the 9th Amendment, and since abortion is most certainly not an enumerated right in the Constitution, it cannot be used to strike down state laws related to abortion. — Hanover
It's simply not the case that the Constitution clearly and unequivocally protects the right to abortion ... — Hanover
Reversing Roe is not the striking down of a law. It's a reversal of precedent. — Hanover
Has my labor and wealth not paid for such “benefits”? — NOS4A2
That the slave benefits from the services provided to him by his master does not alter the injustice of such relationship. — NOS4A2
Your questions aren't pertinent to the issue being discussed. — Hanover
Keep in mind that no where in the Constitution does it say the Supreme Court has the power to strike down laws or to declare what rights exist, especially not those that are unenumerated. — Hanover
No, that's not what an originalist position would hold. No one suggests that you should interpret the Constitution by looking at what the various laws of the states held at the time. — Hanover
“In my view, a right of parents to direct the upbringing of their children is among the ‘unalienable Rights’ with which the Declaration of Independence proclaims “all Men…are endowed by their Creator.’ — Hanover
That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed ...
That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.
I am only saying ... — NOS4A2
I cannot nor can anyone else because the state has acquired all power to make decisions in those ventures, even if in most of those cases the contract work out to private people. — NOS4A2
Your mistake is that you believe only the state can lay asphalt and build bridges and protect our dealings. — NOS4A2
Doesn't this have some impact on the kinds of societies we build? — Tate
Is it something we want to eliminate?
— Fooloso4
I don't know. What do you think? — Tate
Therefore we have a lot of them. — Tate
Name a culture that didn't have its version of one percenters (or there abouts). — Tate
They are not aristocrats. They are plutocrats.
— Fooloso4
Pretty much the same thing. — Tate
Abortion is an exception to the rule. — Tate
I think the system needs a revision that will only come when some event breaks the power of the reigning aristocrats. — Tate
I'm wondering if anyone else on this forum has similar opinions and/or feels that there is some kind of "class warfare" going on where some of the rich and powerful are trying to undermine the poor and disenfranchise who should be getting help but are not. — dclements
If everyone stuck to their moral guns, the world would be different. — Tate
... don't focus on the anarchist, focus on your own values (if you have any moral compass at all) and don't give in to the temptation to stray from what you know is right. — Tate
No one is wiser than Socrates. — Oracle of Delphi
Does it mean that we have to continuously put in effort to justify it ? — Hello Human
a stable equilibrium of the soul,
Given that the main preoccupation of ethics at that time was the telos of human beings, it seems to me that goodness would be what gets one closer to that telos. So goodness would lie both in the action and the doer. — Hello Human
So goodness would lie both in the action and the doer. — Hello Human
If we take the traditional definition of knowledge as justified true belief (at least just for the purpose of that discussion) — Hello Human
it is something requiring mental effort, what does it mean exactly? — Hello Human
Does it mean that we have to continuously put in effort to justify it ? — Hello Human
Or does it mean that we have to constantly put in effort to believe in it ? — Hello Human
Starting with the Presocratics, Greek philosophers were very sceptical of mythology. Plato (and probably Socrates) thought the ideal republic ought to curtail the teaching of myths. — Jamal
Instead of wanting some specific criteria, we come to see our ordinary means of judgment and identity and felicity as good enough. — Antony Nickles
PI 90. ... our investigation is directed not towards phenomena, but rather, as one might say, towards the ‘possibilities’ of phenomena.
PI 126. One might also give the name "philosophy" to what is possible before all new discoveries and inventions.
I think that the "picture" you have both been trying to articulate is more of a way of seeing things, or a Weltanschauung, which he mentions at 122 when discussing surveyable representations. — Luke
That is the point of the duck/rabbit and, one might say, the point of philosophy. — Luke
One might also give the name "philosophy" to what is possible before all new discoveries and inventions.
But Wittgenstein did not "crack the code" in the sense of solve the problem. — Antony Nickles
126. For what is hidden, for example, is of no interest to us.
129. The aspects of things that are most important for us are hidden because of their simplicity and familiarity.
His investigation finds that it is because we have fixed our gaze past them to something certain, universal, logical, etc., even if we have to imagine it to be hidden. — Antony Nickles
Man has to awaken to wonder - and so perhaps do peoples. Science is a way of sending him to sleep again.(Culture and Value)
One might also give the name "philosophy" to what is possible before all new discoveries and inventions.
we fail to be struck by what, once seen, is most striking and most powerful.
I therefore believe myself to have found, on all essential points, the final solution of the problems.
For the clarity that we are aiming at is indeed complete clarity. But this simply means that the philosophical problems should completely disappear.
The real discovery is the one that makes me capable of stopping doing philosophy when I want to.—The one that gives philosophy peace, so that it is no longer tormented by questions which bring itself in question.
They're tautological. — Tate
