I never use the concept at all. Give it a try sometime. — NOS4A2

Yes you do. you're using it right now to argue with me. You know exactly what is being talked about and for a free speech absolutist you're more than a tad prescriptive about what people should talk about. Unfortunately for you one cannot forbid talk without breaking the prohibition.

I propose we stop actualizing it. See these abstract, pseudoscientific concepts for what they are and abandon them in both thought and use. — NOS4A2

So why haven't you?

Now picture the same scene — but from no point of view. Imagine that you are perceiving such a scence from every possible point within it, and also around it. Then also subtract from all these perspectives, any sense of temporal continuity — any sense of memory of the moment just past, and expectation of the one about to come. Having done that, describe the same scene. — Wayfarer

One can do something close to that. It's called a map. From the map, if it is a contour map, one can construct elevations along a sightline and thus reconstruct the perspective at any point in any direction.

I therefore conclude that perspective is not personal (as @Banno points out if we swap places, we swap perspectives), but a feature of topography.

Everybody has to be somewhere! — Spike Milligan

The trick, as always, is not to confuse the map, where one is not, even when there is a label saying "you are here", with the territory where one has to be, with or without a decent map. In general, theoretical physics is in the business of map-making, whereas engineering alters the landscape. New telescope produces new perspective, produces new physics.

Race is a so-called “social construct”. Race cannot show up in pictures unless one approaches the picture with this construct in mind, and uses it to differentiate between two or more individual people according to it. — NOS4A2

Correct. and that is what everyone in the world does, and then they use it to explain to themselves why blue men cannot sing the whites and the orientals are inscrutable and orange people are pathological liars. Money and private property are social constructs, and I bet you recognise them too, you dreadful propertist and financist.

That there is no genetic base to race does not entail that there can be no genocides.

Your guru so fat, if she invaded Crimea it would sink.

My logic's logialler than your logic 'cos you ain't got any logicalicity, an' anyway your mama...

Call me a skeptic, but it seems like 'color-blindness' was only claimed as a virtue by white guys when they wanted to push back on affirmative action, reparations, Critical Race Theory, etc. They weren't promoting 'color-blindness' as a virtue when blackface was the height of comedy. — GRWelsh

You're a sceptic.

I'm a sceptic too. I don't think even colourblind people are racially colourblind. Race shows up even in black and white photography. Claim it doesn't have any meaning all you like, but don't pretend you cannot see it, unless you are actually blind.

Trumps bombs were righteous and friendly bombs.

OK I think all that GSB is saying in that paragraph, in simplified terms, is that re-entry doesn't allow us to use the arithmetic to solve for the value of an expression because re-entry creates an infinite sequence which doesn't allow us to substitute the marked or unmarked state for all cases within an expression (given that the expression is infinite). — Moliere

I think that's right.

We see, in such a case, that the theorems of representation no longer hold, since the arithmetical value of e' is not, in every possible case of a, b, uniquely determined. — P 57

Reentry produces kind of fractal/recursive infinity. The last case of P.56 that you had problems with produces an indeterminate value, and this means that when there is reentry, the calculus cannot always reach a determinate answer. Could be flip, or could be flop for example, or could be oscillating. The algebra still works, but the re-entered expression 'f' cannot be substituted by mark and then by no mark and then, 'there is no other case'; now there are other cases.

Perhaps like Christianity, Marxism too has not been tried because it was found difficult.

There is no problem — Ali Hosein

Oh, good.

I assume that blind people live in the same reality as me. And bees likewise.

The reality that you perceive as honey is probably completely different from the reality that the bee perceives as its product. — Ali Hosein

How would you know? You're not even in my reality.

The reality of light for us is completely different from the reality of light for bees, but maybe if we could understand the language of bees! He probably acknowledged with us the fact that there is something, even if the reality is different for both of us. — Ali Hosein

This may be your reality, but my reality is different. In my reality, bees do not talk to me or tell me about their access to light. They are too busy making honey. But i find it it easier and clearer to say that bees and I experience the same reality differently. We both see the same flowers differently, and eat the same honey differently. I have mine on toast.

Reminds me of that G.K. Chesterton quote: — Tom Storm

Chesterton is an old favourite, very human and a great writer. But the Christianity he was talking about is not a system at all. In the hypothetical evolutionary marketplace of social systems, forgiveness, and love cannot compete with rape and pillage. Here is a fable.

An idea arose and became ubiquitous in Europe, beginning in Britain especially, that combined empiricism and rationality in a form that excluded morality and feelings. It was called "science". This philosophy discounted empathy entirely and as it became dominant, state sponsored piracy developed into an industrialised slave trade and worldwide exploitation that led to the industrial revolution as commodities became more and more plentiful. The modern US and Canada are of course off-shoots of this global exploitation that encompassed The americas and the Caribbean, almost the whole of Africa, India, Australia, NewZealand, large parts of the far East, and the subjugation though never the conquest of China. This triumphant system can be be called "Utter Ruthlessness", or "The British Empire" or "The White Man's Burden" and has been adopted by every other country as the only way to survive in a world where it has arisen. The only weakness is that the lack of all feeling allows it to literally destroy the whole of the global environment on which it depends.

What makes anyone think that there is a system that works? What even is the measure or criterion of 'working'? What constitutes failure? Are you and yours the measure of success?

I don’t know if perspective is a concept at all; it’s more that perspective provides a necessary ground for any concept. Certainly in non-dualism there is awareness of states of ‘contentless consciousness’ (nirvikalpa samadhi) but not having realized such states then yes, I am still a dualist. It’s the human condition, I’m afraid. And as such I have to use reasoned argument to point to that which is beyond it. That is all philosophy is good for, as far as I’m concerned. — Wayfarer

I watched the "is reality real?" vid in your notes, and the arguments there were all towards indirect realism, which posits a Kantian objective reality to which we do not have access except via 'constructive' senses. What I was hoping for, but the above comment seems to deny me, is an inversion of that, such that the constructed sensed world is the real, of which the 'objective world is a mere abstraction:— that just because we are participants in the unfolding of the world, we have direct access to it, and the objective world is an impoverished world that 'works' but does not 'care'.

It just wouldn't work with imaginary forgeries would it? Everyone would notice.

Are you joking? this link is wine shop website! — Ali Hosein

A joke, but it got you the attention and a proper answer.

Alas, I find myself stuck again at the same place as last time. I think i understand how re-entry introduces time and square wave oscillation, and sort of how more than one re-entry is required for two oscillating values to cancel out to produce an imaginary value. But then it all becomes incomprehensible circuitry, and I cannot find the reality of the theory or the theory of reality any more.

Halfway down P.65 at "Modulator function" I just stop following. E4 is just too complicated and too big a jump for me, and I cannot recognise its translation into what is looking much like a simplified circuit diagram. I can just about see the translation of the example without re-entry bottom of P.66 and top of P.67. I have been hoping that someone could help me out at this point with the translation of E4, and then its further implementation using imaginary values.

Illusions are real.
Hallucinations are real.
Fantasies are real.
Copies and forgeries are real.
Appearances are real.

What would human life be like if we never had to work? — T Clark

The devil would make some work for idle hands.
Or in modern parlance, ennui leads to mindless violence and destruction, much bombing etc, until there is some work to do clearing up and fixing things. :sad:

The one true religion obviously does not conflict with true science, because the truth cannot be contradictory.

It's all the false religions and all the pseudo science that conflict. :wink:

Its a big long book about one word. The authors arrive at a list of about 16 different definitions in use by "reputable philosophers" not counting its use in phrases like "the meaning of life", mentioned in the op, which they dismiss as meaningless.

I had a peek and that was enough, thank you. — Amity

A sign of wisdom! A book defining a word uses several thousand other words, each requiring a similar book length analysis to establish the meaning of. For the wise, a peek is enough, the very foolish like me have to read the whole book, and complete idiots have to start all over again on the exact same damn word.

You'll have to read the book to find out.

Try telling AI to start a new 'school of art'. What is happening is industrial plagiarism, and industrial forgery. It has an empty feel because it is clever copying and there is nothing creative happening. That does not mean it is possible to tell the difference, though. Plagiarism and forgery have long traditions too and can already be hard to impossible to detect. So it goes. Art has survived printing and photography, it will probably survive this.

the Meaning of Meaning.

Read the book O ye lovers of definition, and despair.

The existence of God. — A Realist

Some people think God is real, and some people think God is unreal, and they are all correct?

something can be real to me but not real to someone else. — A Realist

What everyone else is getting at is that reality is that about which one can be deceived. So in the case where what is real to you is unreal to me, at least one of us is deceived. But if you are suggesting that something can really be real to you and really be unreal to me, then I think you must be confused.

$400 an hour seems like a very reasonable rate for an expert's time.

Do you expect Montana to not use any expert witnesses to support their case? How much money do you think California has spent promoting climate alarmism?

The lawyers for the Montana youth, who first filed their complaint in 2020, intend to bring a dozen expert witnesses to the stand. — Agree-to-Disagree

Now I see how it works! One maverick retired scientist is a honest Joe getting fairly paid, but a dozen is a venal conspiracy. You must be right because everyone disagrees.

Your thoughts remind me of the Tao Te Ching. Also, Zen. — Amity

Yeah, my mind has been infected since almost forever

Creativity. Its source and process seem to involve a letting go. — Amity

Yes indeed, the source is the process of letting go. The idea of freedom becomes confused and confusing because it is a buzz-word that everyone wants to claim, but to the extent that anyone succeeds in claiming it, they are succeeding in enslaving freedom itself. Whatever one holds onto becomes a tether, even the idea of freedom: "Therefore the sage lets go of that, and chooses this."

Anyone who knows anything about Taoist or Zen practice though will not mistake this for a descent into mere chaos. On the contrary, the discipline is very austere, the responsibilities are great. Likewise, it takes a really disciplined and masterful musician to play free jazz.



:100:

Kevin Trenberth — Agree-to-Disagree

Chris Hipkins and Chris Luxon were both asked about climate change at the end of the leaders' debate this week, and neither response was helpful.

Both talked about cutting emissions – and in a personal capacity, recycling – but neither addressed the most important issue staring us in the face, and that is recognising that climate change is here, it is accelerating and getting worse, and it has consequences. We must adapt to the changes, plan for them and build resilience, and we need to do so urgently. — Trenberth et al.

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/ideasroom/beyond-recycling-what-to-do-about-climate-change

Since the late 1800s, global average surface temperatures have increased by about 1.1℃, driven by human activities, most notably the burning of fossil fuels which adds greenhouse gases (carbon dioxide and methane) to the atmosphere.

As the atmosphere warms, it can hold more moisture in the form of water vapour, which is also a greenhouse gas. This in turn amplifies the warming caused by our emissions of other greenhouse gases.

Some people mistakenly believe water vapour is a driver of Earth’s current warming. But as I explain below, water vapour is part of Earth’s hydrological cycle and plays an important role in the natural greenhouse effect. Its rise is a consequence of the atmospheric warming caused by our emissions arising especially from burning fossil fuels. — Trenberth

https://theconversation.com/how-rising-water-vapour-in-the-atmosphere-is-amplifying-warming-and-making-extreme-weather-worse-213347

To address climate change threats in New Zealand will require more than mobilising private investment with a focus on renewable energy. It will need a comprehensive and collaborative approach that acknowledges dependencies on shipping and air travel, which continue to depend on fossil fuels.

Here are ten broad areas that must be considered when tackling the specific and sometimes unique challenges New Zealand faces in the years ahead. — Trenberth

https://theconversation.com/meeting-the-long-term-climate-threat-takes-more-than-private-investment-10-ways-nz-can-be-smart-and-strategic-211100

And the ten point plan that follows is quite radical, sensible and doable without waiting for the magic bullet that is only decades away.

Judith Curry is a genuine climate scientist. — Agree-to-Disagree

But in this case, of course, Do not follow the money.

https://www.desmog.com/2023/05/15/judith-curry-denier-montana-climate-trial/

Ambitious. — jorndoe

Pipe dream. a literal pipe dream. Two of them in fact. Hydrogen and fusion. Instead of taking action, fantasise about the magic bullet we will have in ten or twenty years. Maybe.

Instead of

Agriculture reform.
transport system reorganisation
building redesign
development of green energy sources and infrastructure including mass storage, using already available technology.

But , can you not see the graphs going up? That means things are getting better, because nearer to God.

Kierkegaard argues that the personal is fundamentally different from other categories to the point where psychology, as the attempt to generally understand the human condition, must give way to the theological. But his view is sharply at odds with a Stoicism that carefully marks out the borders between the regions. He clearly expects to change what is possible in the world. — Paine

Thanks for that. I think I need to read some Kierkegaard. No one seems to argue with him - perhaps it's the intimidating Big Guy standing at his shoulder. It seems obvious that people are not in general single-minded, and so there is a sense in which that freedom one seeks is the freedom from mental conflict (as illustrated by @petrichor above).

"... expects to change what is possible in the world." This! Evolution does it very slowly and laboriously The disciplined imagination of the architect or the engineer does it in almost no time. If there is a technical meaning to freedom, it must I think be that the future is underdetermined by the past. There is wriggle room. And the wriggle room seems to grow, as life complexifies - like a final frontier.

I guess my question is, do you think your definition of freedom collapses into contradiction. If not, why? In what ways does definiteness not result in constraint? — Count Timothy von Icarus

I don't think I have defined it, except negatively. Even in mechanics this applies; the 'free' wheel is the one that is not tied by belt or gear but can move in- dependently. One cannot from that say what it will do.
There is necessarily restriction implied by the finitude of human beings; lambs gambol in an ecstasy of freedom, but they do not fly.

For humans, I think the limit of individual freedom is the limit of individual responsibility. they are, psychologically, two sides of one coin. To be totally free is to take total responsibility for the world. This is how i would account for morality, while keeping it personal. So it is not my business to tell you what is moral, that would be to usurp your freedom; but in drawing that line I am taking responsibility for you even while you are free to be irresponsible.

I am aware that this is not very clear, but I am at the limits of both my understanding and my ability to communicate. So I will have to leave it there, unsatisfactory though it is. I will go quiet and read along and see if anything gets any clearer.

That source that you're pulling from, that conservative Christian think tank, has received nearly a million dollars from Exxon mobile. Let's follow that money. — flannel jesus

The pot calling the ice cream-maker black. Reminds me of the sexual morality of the Catholic church.

Thanks! My theory is that every thread should have a theme tune, because communication requires and assists a community to come together, and music is the food of love. :wink: