It's only revoked if the UK writes to the EU to notify them that it's withdrawing the prior notice to leave. — Michael

You may be right. But you may be wrong; it is at least possible to say that the Benn bill legally changes the democratic decision.

A programmer can create a level he cannot complete, and then a cheat that enables him to complete it. In relation to the game-world, the programmer is omnipotent. Any constraints he may have are 'otherworldly'.

if an extension isn't granted article 50 ends and the UK ceases to be a member. It's all in the gift of the EU. — Punshhh

There is a clause in article 50 that says the decision to leave has to be made democratically according to the laws of the country, so It could be that if the Benn bill is law, and nothing is done that not only will Britain not have left, but the whole article 50 notice will have in effect been revoked.

But don't tell Boris.

He is quite deliberately a parody of a victorian toff, just as Johnson is a deliberate parody of a buffoon. Such behaviour has the effect of normalising extremism, and diverting attention and criticism from substance to trivia, and thus allowing the counter of 'PC-gone-mad'.

Hard to believe, isn't it that this victorian gentleman is intent on making a huge fortune from selling out his own country, whilst protecting his assets in tax havens and foreign investments? He's a clever cruel and ruthless exploiter - if that's what you think a twat is, then he's a twat.

But don't imagine that pose was anything but deliberate.

And from our 'you couldn't make it up' correspondent...

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/jo-johnson-boris-johnsons-brother-resigns-from-parliament_uk_5d70e1cee4b09bbc9efa44c9?fbclid=IwAR3CdHLFuljUmZeOPlqx4VxBTml8q3feLBgG8-T1meO2r9SdiDTnLsfEaWQ

Here's a happy fantasy: Brexit is delayed, then there is an election. the deal between Tory and Brexit parties collapses, splitting the brexit diehard vote, Lib Dems win big , and and tories lose big. Referendum revokes Brexit. Lib dems and Labour become two main parties. Electoral and constitutional reform ensues in both the UK and the EU. Climate change is halted and reversed, everyone lives happily ever after.

Where is this holy shit neurosis coming from? — Wallows

The origin of neurosis is The Fall into time. Adamn monkey falls not into knowledge of good and evil as in 'bananas are good', but as 'I am good', 'bananas will be be good for good monkeys', 'death is not good', bananas are not good for dead monkeys, dead monkeys are not good 'I will be dead.'

W. says 'no you won't.' Are you convinced? Dead monkeys are not monkeys... dead men wallow not.

Is there any possible way to help those in need, and revive us, the younger generation, to become the leaders our world needs? Will change ever come? Will society ever wake up? — Lucielle Randall

One of the things society needs to wake up from is the myth of leaders. As if the person out front knows where they are going. No They are simply the most crazed, most desperate of us. We do not need leaders because there is nowhere to go.

You are your neighbour's neighbour; therefore love your neighbours. Keep your neighbourhood tidy and healthy. The rest is mere admin. Message ends.

As many as half the shops are polish, or aimed primarily at polish customers. I don't have a problem with this, although it does seem a bit strange, when I remember how those streets used to be — Punshhh

There are always too many servants, except when there are not enough.

How does the everything modify itself if it can't be modified from without? — csalisbury

You're leading the witness, but - from within, obviously.

Like what's being chosen to be measured somehow, through that choosing, is already smuggling in the conclusions it advocates. do you get that vibe too? — csalisbury

Yes. The one thing science cannot at all deal with is freedom. It just comes out as random in every theory.

As to to stereoscopy, what if its stereoscopic all the way down?

Two flat pictures that contradict at the margins. And the third, non-picture, that is the integration of information, that 'looks like' a 3d scene... We contradict each other at the margins while agreeing almost everywhere, and see our relationship as we see the world, and perhaps it is the relationship that has the better view.

The domination of a creature's forward directed stereoscopic vision, necessitates its seeing everything in terms of seeing, if you see what I mean (no freedom there). So science takes the transcendent view and can change nothing; it takes the scientist to even construct an experiment. Like Jesus. Every good scientist comes to that moment when he has to infect himself with the disease he thinks he might be able to cure. Take up your cross and follow me...

I think if we could follow it 'all the way down' there would be a limitless limit like the dateless gate, where the integration is complete and the conversation falls into silence...

Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we...

But yes, let's not go there here. — Baden

Let's go thither hither instead.

Marxism is generally the preferred method of attempting to discredit him. — Baden

https://www.thecanary.co/trending/2019/09/02/the-media-goes-into-attack-corbyn-mode-ahead-of-a-possible-snap-election-his-response-is-sublime/?fbclid=IwAR0Aebd8WD-BxJTydFTMmEqDTn6Q-K9NAbyyASFrluBX0Q7zal0EkZvszcA

Big fleas have little fleas
That feed on them and bite them,
And little fleas yet smaller fleas,
And so ad infinitum.

The intuition preceded the mathematics. But the last line turns out to be false; not ad infinitum because at the quantum scale the universe is very different. Even the cells of the cauliflower do not have the form of a cauliflower. In reality (even virtual reality), fractals have a range of application as to extent and 'depth'.

the press coverage here in Aus has been generally critical. — Wayfarer

As has the press coverage in the UK. The reality though is that Corbyn is not remotely radical, and has not proposed a single policy that goes beyond what has already been implemented in the country and then dismantled. Some public housing, a national railway and power system, a national post, a national health service, and some workers' rights. It's all so mainstream that only Americans and propagandists would even call it unusual.

What we ought to do is to stop burying the dead and instead embalm them so that all the poor depraved living can have sex with corpses and satisfy their urges without producing more suffering. folks should be encouraged to marry the dead, and research done to see if they cannot be reanimated with animatrionics for a more fulfilling experience - taking care, of course not to produce conscious computers in the process. This would be a rational minimising of suffering.

Well since I have been invoked like a common demon, here is my contribution:

Tononi's hyper-scientific explanation of consciousness is here discussed by the hyper-rational BBC in terms that recapitulate in effect the wackiest outreaches of Jungian theory, the collective unconscious.

And in terms of politics, Jung's theory was intended to address such political phenomena as the sudden slide into fascism of Germany which many are finding echoes of in current affairs.

As if what fits together is not so much the things themselves as stereoscopic conflicted way one is obliged to look at them.

In the exchange, Wallace accused parliament of being “awful at saying what it wants”, but “very good at saying what it doesn’t want”. He then goes on to say that:

"So, you know, eventually any leader has to… try"

He concedes that he doesn’t know what the outcome of “it” will be and breaks down laughing. He continues, after regaining his composure, saying “[inaudible] politics”. Later in the exchange, he then appears to explain why “it” had to happen:

"...we’ve suddenly found ourselves with no majority and a coalition and that’s not easy for our [political] system."


The government has since argued that Wallace “misspoke” in the conversation. Clearly he did. Because the minister did the unspeakable: he gave credence to people’s suspicions. He suggested that Johnson has done “it” – the proroguing of parliament – due to the precarious position of his minority government in regards to Brexit. Furthermore, Wallace’s behaviour suggests the cabinet thinks the whole thing is funny:

https://www.thecanary.co/trending/2019/08/29/defence-minister-is-caught-on-camera-spilling-the-unspeakable-beans-about-boris-johnson/?fbclid=IwAR1K_X-kRiiLNqdQutzE3X7ZfGum3D_aU0UcS0fqWuuMxr66ND_zJdbmR-Y

Really appreciate that. It's not ideal, but what can one expect?

Yes, but you are not allowed to put physical objects into a mathematical set.
You can only fill it up with language expressions.
So, if you cut a "cat" in two, you get {"c", "at"} or {"ca","t"}. — alcontali

So are you saying that I cannot cut a cat into two pieces? Your idealism solves the problem of contradiction but at the price of failing to account for how we actually talk about the world. I don't talk about "cat"s but about cats - and sometimes I count them. Don't tell me I'm not allowed to... damn mathematicians and philosophers stealing the language the rest of us use to talk about the world and making silly rules against talking sense.

If they are a "pair" of shoes, this does not make them into an object, it is just another way of saying that they are two — Metaphysician Undercover

I already shot that fox. If I have two shoes, they may or may not be a pair. It is not the same thing. And if I cut a cat in two, there are two pieces of one cat. Also not the same thing. But what do i have to do to make them one, tie the laces together - glue the soles together - crush them into a singularity?

Most of us know well enough how to count shoes and how to count pairs of shoes and bits of cat though, and we know well enough not to count the number as another shoe. So I am happy to say that however many shoes there may be, they are all shoes and not numbers, and though there is a number of shoes, there are only shoes and no numbers, and this is perfectly clear and simple until someone points out a contradiction, at which point the explanations multiply and the clarity is lost.

So don't do it.

There is an inherent contradiction in asserting that a symbol like 2 signifies an object, because the unifying agent which makes 2 into one object has not been identified, therefore that two are one object has not been justified, and there really is no such object. — Metaphysician Undercover

I have a left shoe, and I have a right shoe.
I have two shoes.
I have a pair of shoes.

I have a pair of shoes, which consists of a left shoe, a right shoe and a unifying principle
I have a pair of shoes, which consists of a left shoe, a right shoe and two-ness.

Unfortunately, I have two left feet. This is not as bad as having two left brains.
--------------------------------------------------------------
I have two left shoes.
I do not have a pair of shoes.
I have a left shoe, and I have a left shoe, and I have two-ness, but not pairity.

Nansen Cuts the Cat in Two

When children are truly free to walk away from school, then schools will have to become child-friendly places in order to survive. Children love to learn, but, like all of us, they hate to be coerced, micromanaged, and continuously judged. They love to learn in their own ways, not in ways that others force on them. Schools, like all institutions, will become moral institutions only when the people they serve are no longer inmates. When students are free to quit, schools will have to grant them other basic human rights, such as the right to have a voice in decisions that affect them, the right to free speech, the right to free assembly, and the right to choose their own paths to happiness.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/freedom-learn/201304/the-most-basic-freedom-is-freedom-quit?fbclid=IwAR3g1JEFem_0ICV5TrWPSwMPpZHZl7cYLESq2w0P-Kvl7a-HAVTnLZloTMw

Here's a simple principle to reduce trauma in schools and other institutions.

When even the FT is anti tory, it is clear they are completely mad.

https://www.ft.com/content/9dbc7852-c9b2-11e9-af46-b09e8bfe60c0

But, no, she couldn't have. — Michael

One might have said that you can't suspend parliament for a month during an urgent crisis to prevent it from exercising its will. I think she could have, and it would have been rather interesting to pit the brexit sovereignty thing against the monarchist thing. It seems to me that if a constitutional monarch has a function beyond the decorative, it is to occupy the space that a dictator needs. That must mean at some extreme the possibility to intervene against a leader even against precedent. Perhaps we have yet to reach that extreme...

Also could have been banned for Totally Random Capitalisation of Words, — Wayfarer

TRC is not ABO (a bannable offence), and nor is AA (acronymic addiction), AFAIK. Incidentally the offending link remains in a quote.

According to a notorious liar, everything is fine.

One is everlastingly comparing oneself with another, with what one is, with what one should be, with someone who is more fortunate. This comparison really kills. Comparison is degrading, it perverts one's outlook. And on comparison one is brought up. All our education is based on it and so is our culture. So there is everlasting struggle to be something other than what one is. The understanding of what one is uncovers creativeness, but comparison breeds competitiveness, ruthlessness, ambition, which we think brings about progress. Progress has only led so far to more ruthless wars and misery than the world has ever known. To bring up children without comparison is true education. — J. Krishnamurti

It is hard to exaggerate how radical this idea is. No exams, no competitions - what on earth would we do all day?

I try my best to be just like I am,
But everybody wants you
To be just like them.
They say 'sing while you slave' and I just get bored,
I ain't gonna work on Maggie's farm no more. — Bob Dylan

Yeah, let's not make those comparisons, ACE is an indicator not a measure. I suspect that the more subtle and indirect the abuse, the worse it is - for instance, neglect is literally nothing, right? Isolation is nothing...

But what I meant there was more that there is a politics that holds that since we have declared it self evidently true that all men are equal, there is nothing else that needs to be done to sustain the reality, and if anyone finds themselves disadvantaged it must be a personal failing. Their lack of humanity, not ours. To hold such a view is to take a contemptuous position towards one's own weaknesses, and this is a divided, dissociated condition that projects the contempt on to others. The condition will obviously afflict most those who despite their trauma have material advantages but becomes persuasive also to any traumatised person ready to punish themselves... they wouldn't recognise themselves from this description, but the rest of us probably can.

Hi there. There is a connection; folks that are in denial about their own trauma have to insist that everything's ok, and if everything ok, yet other people are suffering, then it must be their own fault somehow. This has become so widespread a psychological defence as to rule nations. Those that promote it are almost certainly in an even worse condition. So congratulations on holding onto your own experience despite the pain and the pressure. Hopefully, as the word spreads, a more humane treatment regime will follow, and eventually, less trauma.

Or it just seems that way — Coben

Indeed, it would be foolish to take my word for it - find out for yourself.

From the POV of thought or of AlphaZero, as it were, it is necessarily the case that a decision cannot be determined in advance of the determination; decisions are always conditionals, and thus program branches. Running the program determines how the branches are navigated, the program itself does not choose.

7. Therefore, knitting is impossible. — EricH

The conclusion of course happens to be true, but the argument alas does not run. Never mind Deep Blue, we have programs that deterministically evaluate their own performance and modify themselves accordingly.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AlphaZero . Trial and error, evaluation, learning, improvement... what was it again that a deterministic mechanism cannot do? Freely choose? But it doesn't choose at all; science allows itself to be entirely determined by the facts. It follows a method that deterministically converges towards truth. Thought is not where freedom resides, because thought is itself mechanical. Freedom lies in awareness, and has nothing to do with choice.

What kind of person prefers the supernatural over ordinary explanation and what kind of person prefers it the other way? — TheMadFool

I don't know, is there some other difference in general? It seems a fairly trivial difference to me, compared to the difference between, say, those who think Jesus was wise and those who think he was foolish.

Believers seem to prefer — TheMadFool

Well bugger believers. What everyone wants to know is their own status, isn't it? Is you saved or is you ain't? Is God on our side? When you meet Jesus you can ask him. But if he says he doesn't know you...

What I mean to say is that you are concerning yourself in the arrangement of the deckchairs on the Titanic, or else you are interesting yourself in whether the Mad Hatter made top hats or derbys. The story of Jesus is more significant than that even, and especially, if it isn't factual.

all the foundational level work has been done. — RogueAI

I haven't done it though, so I still need to do it. I ate a meal once, no point in doing it again.

all the good stuff has already been thought of. — RogueAI

What a feeble principle that is! As if only novelty has value.

Quintessential is defined by google dictionary as meaning "representing the most perfect or typical example of a quality or class". What makes something the "most perfect" example of a quality or class as opposed to just simply being typical? — thewonder

I'm reminded of discussions of the standard meter. Every meter rule is a meter long by being the same length as the standard meter. But the standard meter is incomparable. It is a meter long by fiat. So perhaps the quintessential Hamlet is whatever it is said to be by whoever is the current executive director of aesthetics ...

let’s say it is of medium quality. — khaled

Oh it's quite wrong to like mediocrity!

I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot not cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth. — Revelations

“Is liking vanilla ice cream right?” — khaled

That depends; is it good vanilla ice cream? There's some really bad ice cream about these days.

Is it in our nature, something inherent in humanity? — BrianW

Well I suspect it is analogous to the atomic structure of matter - that psyche, subjectivity, identity, whatever you call it, is made of archetypes.

At least, perhaps that's not quite right... If you take an eagle, or a fox, or any animal, they have an individuality and they have a species character, and they are seemingly integrated. A dog is always entirely dog, and entirely himself without conflict. Whereas humans do not know, but pretend to know, what human nature is or should be, and try to perform that - so that these archetypes are mere ideas, and humans live in ideas rather than reality. So one has endless arguments about what is or isn't a man, or a real man, or manly, instead of just assuming that what is manly is whatever men do. "Big boys don't cry therefore I must not cry." "Real men are white therefore you are not a real man." Real men are terrible conformists, and have to act all the time, and the archetypes are the second rate performances we give.

Jesus was one of us. What about you? Are you one of us, or one of them?