https://jacobinmag.com/2021/05/macron-france-palestine-israel-protests-banned

The Enlightened West with its freeze peach and - oh wait, no, it's just fascism.

But you see how one could call your view intolerant? — BitconnectCarlos

Intolerant of intolerance, yes.

--

Also, if I recall, the Japanese are not exactly forthcoming with extending citizenship to non- , let's call it, racially pure Japanese. And anecdotally, if you're darker skinned in Japan, it's not exactly sunshine and rainbows, from what I hear from friends in that position. I'm willing to be shown wrong about both of these things.

But also, Israel is an unambiguously racist state so alot of these comparisons are not really necessary. Other than maybe to sharpen just how unambiguously racist it is. So back to how it is terrorizing it's colonial territories.

How about religious ones then? — BitconnectCarlos

Of course not. Religion ought to play no role in government. Like - I'm sorry I have to provide you a minimum of civic education? And yes, the Arab states are almost universally fucking awful. Another 'Yes'.

So China must be the most racist country by a multitude of factors above any other country. — Harry Hindu

China is insanely racist. Like Israel, it too runs concentration camps.

I don't know why people like you bring up all these supposed counter-examples which can be answered with a simple "yes". It's incredible. (I bet India is racist! Yes. I bet China is racist! Yes. I bet you think the Allies committed war crimes! Yes). Shows how fucked up people's moral compass' are.

You just said you want to see all countries run roughly the same way and I'm just trying to get a sense of what that would mean — BitconnectCarlos

Not along ethnic lines would be a minimum. I.e. not racist.

Oh, back to hypotheticals are we? Nope, not playing. Thanks for the admission though, racist.

Do you believe that all countries ought to run themselves in the same way? — BitconnectCarlos

Indeed I do. Which is why when countries exclude members of their population - or engage in ethnic cleansing to 'purify' that population - they do not 'run themselves'. They are made to run along exclusionary lines which make them - wait for it - racist.

Man, reading that article... this is actual state terrorism. Not state 'sponsored' terrorism. Just straight state terrorism.

You're the one who wants to tell other entire nations that they're not allowed to enshrine their own cultural/historical values into law and maintain those through governance and I'm the racist. — BitconnectCarlos

:rofl:

How dare you tell racist states not to be racist. You're the real racist!

Ahh you crack me up.

I don't see anything wrong with a state having a fundamentally, e.g. Indian, Han Chinese, Jewish, Muslim, character and striving to maintain that. — BitconnectCarlos

Yes, because you are a racist. So this follows quite nicely.

Yes. Have you not seen what ethnic tensions - escalated by a fanatical Hindu nationalist PM - in India have wrought?

Silly question, you're ignorant as shit, of course you haven't. But go on, keep telling on yourself.

I'm fine with an ethno-state — BitconnectCarlos

Of course you are. As with all racists.

And I guess American blacks are treated like shit so that makes it OK?

Mask off here we goooo.

Israeli Arabs are second class citizens and everyone knows this but do tell me more about this ethnostate which you need to establish.

Interesting justification of racial apartheid.

Pretty sure you can find something like it in Mein Kampf too.

demonstrate strength — BitconnectCarlos

Interesting way to say 'ethnic cleansing'.

In other news there are now 31 dead children among the 119 dead Palestinians, which keeps the ratio of dead children to dead adults about the same as a few hours ago. A nice consistency in the murder of children. Wonder why the Palestinians don't just lay down and die. Make things easier for the Israelis as Ec would prefer.

Opposing genocide = ideological purity. Got it.

Not resisting genocide because people might get hurt <> ideological purity. Got it.

Sad that people like you not only exist in front of a computer, but are in actual positions of power too.

Yeah, real revolutionary to oppose genocide and affirm the rights of resistance to it. Not like, the lowest possible bar of humanity.

Why not? — Echarmion

Because I'm not an armchair shitstain who, in addition to being a lapdog to genocide, would even demand to control the terms of death by those meting it out.

Because I would not presume to tell a genocided population how to exercise what little autonomy they have left, especially against the very murderous state that is carrying out said genocide. I would not tell them to lay down and die, unlike some armchair shitstain who has the luxury of clutching his nose at the smell of blood (but only when spilled by one side).

I don’t need to want that. That’s happening. Because Isreal is killing people. But I would not be such a snivelling dog to genocide and power as to demand that resistance either be entirely effective, or cease altogether. One imagines a wretch like you at the ghetto uprisings, telling people to accept their lot and not antagonise the scary SS man ('because sometimes bad people win').

No, what I want is practical measures — Echarmion

= what you want is for Palestinians to die in silence.

Good chat.

What you want is a literal oxymoron: a civilised violence. And even then, only on the part of the oppressed, in impossible conditions, considering your near silence - or at least disproportionate expense of energy - when it comes to Isreali atrocities. What you don't want is concomitant with this: that an oppressed people resist their own genocide.

I'm sorry you're too stupid to reckon with the implications of your own words.

Better to die in silence than take other innocent people with you. — Echarmion

The Hamas has no military solution, and as such it cannot justify its military actions as fighting against oppression. — Echarmion

Which, again means: only Isreal can exercise violence.

Isreal will continue to genocide Palestinians regardless of rocket attacks. Whether they ‘help’ or not is - like the rest of your questions - is completely inconsequential. The focus on the rocket attacks is a sideshow, peddled by the propagandised and the enablers, who would demonstrably otherwise prefer they lay down and die in silence - which is literally something you said, you fucker, and not a ‘lie'.

What have I dropped? — Echarmion

Your shit take on Palestinian resistance - which, apparently, has nothing to do with actual Palestinians.

But by all means, make this discussion about me, personally, instead, you vapid, substanceless nong.

You're the one who insists I'm "enabling genocide", that I'm sitting in some ivory tower, divorced from the actual situation. — Echarmion

Actually, you insisted on this after I pointed it out. Having you admit that you're literally talking about a fantasy is quite good enough in my book. It means you have nothing to say and, in the case that you do, it means nothing of relevance. Well, outside of using that fantasy to push for the cause of aiding a genocidal state.

What exactly does 'helping' or not have to do with anything? You said a shit thing, and it remains shit no matter how hard you bloviate around it. No wonder that you've dropped it entirely in order to wonder in the weeds of irrelevance.

Ah, the last bastion of the weasel - “I’m not actually talking about what’s going on in Palestine, I’m just war-gaming it for my intellectual edification, even as it has nothing to do with the realities of the situation”. “Also this doesn’t make a difference so who cares lol”.

Except rhetoric like yours is routinely wheeled out precisely in order to uphold the conditions of atrocity, and yeah, I really enjoy showing it up for the absolute shithouse of an argument it is.

I want violence to be useful. — Echarmion

Which, in the context of the open-air concentration camp that is Gaza, is indistinguishable from demanding that Israel alone has the exclusive rights to exercise violence. Your gatekeeping of violence does not take in some rarefied intellectual game-space where a genocided population gets the pleasure of picking when and how they enact resistance to a power that crushes them at every turn. It doesn’t take place after tea time, once the children are put to bed, and everyone agrees to duels in twilight by the gardens.

Better to die in silence than take other innocent people with you. — Echarmion

You want Israel, a genocidal state, to hold the exclusive means of violence. At least people like twoBit are clear minded in their shittyness - your liberal civility politics is the worst of both positions - one that plays enabler to genocide while pretending to call it an evil. An evil that you're so concerned about that your counsel is to 'just let it happen baby'.

There's a reason that when they lined up the Nazis and the collaborators against the wall - the latter of whom always protested that they were just trying to make things bearable - they shot the collaborators first.

Is any discussion of anything but atrocities and murders commited by people associated with the Israeli state automatically aiding the oppressors? — Echarmion

If by 'discussion' you mean, "it is preferable that the Palestinians are genocided in silence" then yeah, that's aiding the opressers you fuck.

These are the kinds of people who watched the Death Star blow up in Star Wars and then cried about all the innocents who were on board.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/israel-steps-up-airstrikes-against-hamas-in-gaza-tries-to-contain-violence-at-home-11620900941

Terror from the air now supplanted by terror from the ground.

103 Gazans dead, including 27 children. That makes more than a quarter of the dead, children. Anyone claiming 'self-defense' - like @BitconnectCarlos - can go fuck themselves with a rusty nailgun. But more likely they will continue defending atrocities carried out by a murderous regime, while demanding that Palestinians die without complaining quite so much (i.e. @Echarmion).

And some vapid shit like @Number2018 will say that all this isn't about Israel, employing philosophy in the most cynical, self-serving manner - or should I say copy-pasting, considering that is the only thing he or she knows how to do - while a @Joshs will have the gall to talk about 'empathy' while being utterly devoid of it.

Israel has become a flashpoint for the left not just because of its subjugation of palestinians
but because its form of nationalistic democracy exemplifies the Enlightenment era liberal political self-identity that the West is trying to distance itself from via brutal self-critique. — Joshs

This is delusional. Isreal is a racist state that is engaged in ethnic cleanisng. Moreover, it is supported - with arms, money, and media fawning - by the very 'West' you say is distancing itself from it. You are wrong on both counts of your comparison. Isreal is a 'flash point for the left' because its naked brutality is a second aparthied South Africa now with backed with 21st century weapons and a genocide program. "Nationalistic democracy that exemplifies Enligtenment era liberlism" - utter fucking madness. No wonder you're shit at philosophy, you've got bolts loose.

Oh and one more because people like Echarmion still exist to provide cover for apartheid and genocide:

A nice reminder that, despite the propaganda, plenty of people can still recognize the depravity of Israeli actions - even in the imperial heartland.

Incapable it is.

Is this like how you asked about Japan previously? It's like you're incapable of actually talking about Israel. Which sideshow will you track discussion down to next? Can I place a bet?

I'll take that as a yes then.