But it is a shame that you bypass the content of my posts to jump straight back to the world from your point of view. — apokrisis
AFAIK the mechanisms that link biodiversity to stability are still being researched, so it's far from 'settled science'. — fdrake
Do you mean the time series obtaining a local maximum through 'optimisation' or do you mean an ecological model obtaining a local maximum through optimisation? The relationship of the latter to an ecological model is more a matter of model fitting and parameter estimation than how a parametrised mathematical model of an ecology relates to what it models. The parameters are 'best in some sense' with respect to the data. — fdrake
I personally wouldn't like to think about the 'modelling relation' between science and nature in terms of the 'for-itself' acting representationally on the 'in-itself'. Just 'cos I think it's awkward. — fdrake
I think ecology has some complications that aren't present in simpler relationships between model and world. I'm not sure I could make a list of them all, but there's always a difficulty in measuring properties of ecosystems precisely in a manner useful for modelling. It isn't the same for chemistry. — fdrake
though maybe it's a useful pedagogical tool to get people thinking about humans in less individualistic terms! — fdrake

Nature seems to care about the parameters since we can study ecosystems using them and learn things, but I don't think nature 'sees', say, the distinction between altitude's effect on the spatial distribution of soil bacteria (propensity-to-change) and the functional form we specify. Nor the specific way we measure ecological parameters. — fdrake

wait StreetlightX you've used 'see' a lot - maybe we're drawing on the same sources, here. Are you referencing Scott? — csalisbury
upstart lefty idealists think they know better than whats worked for billion of years, want to rationally organize things, plant this there, and that there) — csalisbury
One way to understand it, is to see that SX's "single animal as a kind of bounded ecology", for MU translates to "a single animal as a closed ecological system" — Πετροκότσυφας
This requires extending the metaphor from ecology to biology to sociology with life and complexity being points in common. — Galuchat
The image of ecological succession in terms of discrete developmental stages of the distribution of plant matter over an area is outdated. The most dated bit of it is the idea of ecological climax, which contains within it a sense of ecological equilibrium (self regulating/homeostatic interdependence), there's no evidence for this. The preferred view atm is one of dynamism and flux, focussing on the possible disturbances and potentials for the ecosystem than rather arbitrary categorisation of stages of plant development. — fdrake
The reproductive behaviour of organisms can also be considered as part of an ecosystem though. This is why colony collapse disorder for bees is terrifying, no mo' bees is no mo' trees. — fdrake
So, how do you address that issue manifest by the guiding principle of liberalism and neoliberalism that what is rational is to do what is best for one's self-interest? — Posty McPostface
A problem, I think, is that the need may be too easily addressed by a vision that's attractive because it's thoughtless (in the sense that it is based on the willing, even eager, acceptance of simple, unquestionable, maxims), exclusive and intolerant. That seems to have been the case with other visions of what it is to live well that have been accepted in the past. I understand that's not what you mean, though. — Ciceronianus the White
Not sure what that inspiring new narrative could be, but it's something I think about all the time. Eager to check out those links. — Erik
It's entirely possible to think that to live and live well is to distinguish good from evil and then act on this realization. And if that's possible, then it's not immediately understood what you mean by living well. — Πετροκότσυφας
But how economic policy (e.g. cuts to military expenditures in order to introduce universal healthcare) does not offer "an ethos" in an (even more) immediately identifiable way? — Πετροκότσυφας
In this you give undue credit to the maker of the video — charleton
I perhaps take a more Rousseau approach and see the system as the primary issue or problem that restricts our cognitive capacity to naturally evolve, — TimeLine
All these are the result of poor individual choices if you ask me — Agustino
but what I got from his OP was that we cannot escape and that we are nothing more than an 'incentive structure' — TimeLine
The only true individuals (in the sense of being non-socialized) are babies and the insane. — Baden

Look in to an individual and all you'll see is shit as Zizek would put it, some of which will inevitably be shit you put there, historians put there, speculation, excuses, stories. Shit basically in terms of understanding. Look instead at actions in context, and at each layer of context right up to the macro-social layer and its own meta-social context. — Baden
