If you want to find a rabid atheist, then look no further than me. — god must be atheist

Stand tall brother.

Both Christianity and Islam, slave holding ideologies, have basically developed into intolerant, homophobic and misogynous religions. Both religions have grown themselves by the sword instead of good deeds and continue with their immoral ways in spite of secular law showing them the moral ways.

Jesus said we would know his people by their works and deeds. That means Jesus would not recognize Christians and Muslims as his people, and neither do I. Jesus would call Christianity and Islam abominations.

Gnostic Christians did in the past, and I am proudly continuing that tradition and honest irrefutable evaluation based on morality.

https://topdocumentaryfilms.com/theft-values/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxoxPapPxXk

Humanity centered religions, good? Yes. Esoteric ecumenist Gnostic Christianity being the best of these.

Supernaturally based religions, evil? Yes. Islam and Christianity being the worst of these.

Regards
DL

I haven't found that to be true. There are a lot more vocal atheists here than believers. The atheists also tend to be more rabid. Case in point - Gnostic Christian Bishop. — T Clark

Eh, nt long ago I would have been insulted to be classed as an atheists due to their lack of sense in not understanding why religions and churches exist, even though atheist leaders were pushing them to start churches so as to protect their children from the supernatural stupid and immoral religions.

These days I do not mind so much because atheists are smartening up, starting churches and thus are doing their duty towards their children by creating intelligent, what I term as mystery schools, just the way the ancients did before the more stupid religions began to read their myths literally.

If I am really more rabid than the usual, I think you for the compliment.

If you are not rabid towards the satanic mainstream religions, you are not much of a person and are not living by the Golden Rule.

If you think you should live by the Golden Rule, change the labels in this quote to women, minorities, gays or children being brainwashed by religions and it shows what we should be thinking and doing for each other.

"First they came for the Jews, but I did nothing because I'm not a Jew. Then they came for the socialists, but I did nothing because I'm not a socialist. Then they came for the Catholics, but I did nothing because I'm not a Catholic. Finally, they came for me, but by then there was no one left to help me." – Pastor Father Niemoller (1946)”

Regards
DL

He abandoned that for a while, but old habits die hard. — god must be atheist

That I do not recall but then I have a poor memory. Good research.

Regards
DL

petrichor — petrichor

Guilty as charged. That particular forum did not last long on my favorite list.

Regards
DL

I think you’re on a recruitment drive for an alternative religion. — Wayfarer

Absolutely.

Do you like the present mainstream misogynous and homophobic religions and their genocidal slave wanting gods?

I do not and see better options out there.

Should we not all strive to follow the best ideology we can find while trying to mitigate the harm of the mainstream garbage religions?

Regards
DL

The original meaning is simply that those who refuse to drink are condemned to go thirsty, but the idea became distorted over time. — Wayfarer

Like many Christian beliefs, yes.

The thing is, Yahweh is a genocidal moral monster. Would you drink from his cup?

I would pass real quick.

Regards
DL

“Indeed I tremble for my country when reflect that God is just: that his justice cannot sleep for ever..."

Maybe we should hope not. — Bitter Crank

I understand your point.

If god is not just, why call him good and just?

As a Canadian who used to respect Americans, I wish real Americans would come back.

It looks like I will have to wait for the next generation to grow up.

I miss my old American friends and hope the U.S. gets well soon.

Regards
DL

elucid — elucid

You are correct but these questions often end in going in various different side roads.

I am used to theist deflecting whenever morals are under discussion.

They do not want to touch on that issue with a 10 foot pole, which shows the deapth of the hipocracy in some of them.

Daniel. This answer was not intended to include you. I do not know your motivation.

If it does, no apology buddy.

Regards
DL

(This despite their having been "inspired") — Daniel C

Sorry buddy. This does not make a lot of sense to me and sounds more like trying to justify what cannot be justified.

Are you suggesting that god's inspiration is so inept or shallow that his scribes cannot get his dictation right?

Would a god who wishes to give us a message not make sure it is well written before sending his draft to the printers?

Regards
DL

Even if the God of the Bible condemning someone to hell forever is just, it is still not necessary for the God of the Bible to do such a thing. The reason is that the Bible claims that God is all powerful, therefore the God of the Bible can resolve any matter without causing any suffering. — elucid

I agree. A good god would do the good thing and not the evil thing.

Regards
DL

Given that God is so much larger than us, and beyond dimensions we know, — Fine Doubter

Kind of a self-contradicting statement that.

How can you know anything about a god who is in a dimension that you say we cannot know?

Regards
DL

What you see in the religious, you live out. — Coben

Indeed.

My religion says that it is not only my duty to try to grow my religion, but that it is also my duty to fight evil.

I do more of the latter because few want to become adherents to any religion given the garbage mainstream religions and all the harm that they continue to do to society with their foul homophobic and misogynous teachings, not to mention calling their evil gods good.

If you ever want to try to stick to the issues, instead of speaking about me, I am here for you.

I like to keep this following in mind.

Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

BTW, you are mostly off the mark, and if you are going to be that far off on your critique, next time get the G D quotes or shut the fuck up.

Regards
DL

Thanks for the worthless garbage.

Regards
DL

that the state should be in charge of dictating morality. — Hanover

They do it now with secular law.

The objection is in trying to enforce morality on the public. — Hanover

Which is already being done to some extent by all governments via their laws.

It's the very reason we don't have a state run religion. — Hanover

If an American, you should recognize that you have a religion run government. You just won't admit that you live in a Hypocrisy and not a Democracy.

You do have state run religions as your government has passed a number of laws that inhibit religions and outlaws some of their tactics and policies.

Your personal belief that the Golden Rule is the sole correct moral ideology seems awful Christian of you. — Hanover

LOL.
Why? They plagiarized it from older and wiser ideologies.

There is almost nothing unique in Christianity that has not been plagiarized.
I E. Jesus was what, the sixth deity born of a virgin?

Regards
DL

IOWs, I got you and you did not like it.
The sin of misguided pride.

What lie are you referring to?

Show it or be seen as a liar yourself for accusing without showing what you accuse of.

Regards
DL

based on purported facts. — Coben

Yes, like a supernatural realm that somehow do not match the supernatural realm of other religions and are demonstrably myths.

Regards
DL

Huxley combined the Greek prefix a-, meaning "not," with gnostos, "known." It can be used as a noun or adjective, and it can also refer to uncertainty about questions other than the existence of God: "Some philosophers remain agnostic as to whether people have free will."

I can't understand how you would — Pattern-chaser

I am French and think analogically.

Gnostic Christians are perpetual seekers so as to not become idol worshipers and agnostics are also on the fence/seekers, as they seek the ultimate answers just as we do.

I do not see much of a difference as agnostic and Gnostics do about the same thing and hold many of the same beliefs. We are closer to agnostics than we are to other religions that are idol worshipers.

Being a self educated Frenchman, I do not usually argue the meaning of English words with an English guy.

Regards
DL

I was being sarcastic. But, should it have been for real, I get to be the decider of right and wrong. — Hanover

If onl;y sarcastic, then you do not live by the Golden Rule and do not care that your friends are being led astray by immoral ideologies.

You might want to get more moral.

Regards
DL

It is so. And you have been doing up until this post. — Drazjan

If I read you right, make your case case or stop insulting like a G D child without showing the reason for the chastisement.

Chastisement without correction just shows the hate in your heart.

Regards
DL

:gasp:

Meany.

Regards
DL

frank — frank

I am ot bad at thinking analogically but cups have no morals.

Regards
DL

So you don't maintain that moral statements are subjectively true? — frank

I do until I see what you would call an objective moral tenet.

You have not given me anything to analyse of opine on, as requested.

Regards
DL

And yet you maintain that all moral statements are merely subjectively true. You appear to be contradicting yourself. — frank

Never, unless the question or scenario changes.

We are talking of a specific case. My subjective moral decision is that that girl is doing the right thing.

You are still not showing any of the objective moral tenets you say exist.

Regards
DL

frank — frank

Most moral tenets are subjective and it is moral for a sister to try to save her sister from abuse.

If you don't agree, I think you're wrong.

If not opinion then name a few objective moral tenets. You just naming them objective without examples is not the way to show why you hold your poor opinion.

Regards
DL

Then what was the story about the abused women supposed to do if not appeal to pity and bring me to accept that sometimes it's right for a cop to run a prostitution ring? — frank

I did not want to engage your pity.

Such a woman would tell you to shove your pity.

If it is really in you, then pay her for her time so she can keep protecting her younger sister and buy her pimp a drink for helping protect prostitutes who likely do not want to be in that profession.

Regards
DL

I do not understand what you are getting at. — Bartricks

Do you think that thinking an evil genocidal prick of a god like Yahweh is a good god is a good idea?

Whether a god exists or not has nothing to do with what belief in such a being might inspire people to do. — Bartricks

I agree.

The writings of said god is what should be the guide and for a human to think that a genocidal prick is a good god shows poor guidance by Christianity, be their prick of a god be real or not.

Would you let someone teach your children that genocide is done by good people And good gods?

Regards
DL

However, today we see branded as irrational anyone who does not condone homosexual practices — Drazjan

Not so.

We brand them as immoral and bigots as they discriminate without a just cause.

Irrational might apply but a persons morals, to me, are more important than if he is rational or not.

Regards
DL

Come on, what a circus monkey — alcontali

--- you are.

Regards
DL

I think the state should lay out in a book what is right and what is wrong and make it required reading regardless of the views of the student and his family. That sounds like a great idea. — Hanover

A good beginning that. Let's be led by the best while showing why we reject the worst.

The world wants to move left as the maximum freedoms we can have come from that side.

Regards
DL

You see, the very first thing to understand about knowledge, is that it does not matter who says it. — alcontali

You say after a character assassination while having nothing to refute anything.

Go away.

Regards
DL

alcontali — alcontali

That gentleman headed up a whole university department and is an expert demographer.

Do you have better statistics to refute him?

If not, talk to the hand.

Regards
DL

A phobia is an irrational fear. The disapproval of a practice is not a phobia. Terms like Islamophobia and Homophobia are more often used in rhetoric and sophistry to defend those groups. — Drazjan

If not fear, what motivates homophobes to discriminate against gays without a just cause to the point of wanting to deny them a lifelong loving relationship?

Or do you think homophobes have a just cause to put sex above love?

Regards
DL

No, the point is you haven't articulated a coherent problem. — Bartricks

How about faith leading to the idol worship of a genocidal and evil god while thinking him good?

Regards
DL

If you really think the issue is a matter of opinion, then why are you suggesting that I might be wrong? — frank

I didn't.
I just complicated things for you to show how morals are all subjective.

Respect and honor have to be earned. You have yet to earn it.

Regards
DL

if a cop runs a prostitution ring, I would say that's immoral. — frank

Is it as immoral if the cop took the ring over to stop the pimp from abusing his girls?

I knew a prostitute one time who became one to end her abuse at home and to be able to afford to take her younger sister away from her abusive father? Abuse was running at about 40% of all girls ate that time. It is not quite that high today but still unacceptable.

What is that ring was full of that type of abused prostitute?

Is it wrong to use those prostitutes and force them into more abusive or lower class circumstances?

Such questions are subjective for the reasons I just put.

You might think it evil but I might not without more information due to what I know as compared to what you know.

As promised. The only two moral tenets I think might be objective and always true are ---

1. Though shalt not kill when you can cure.
2. The good or needs of the many outweighs the good or needs of the few.

That last needs a subjective decision first while # 1 might not.

Regards
DL

New2K2 — New2K2

I use this almost as a signature sometimes.

Both Christianity and Islam, slave holding ideologies, have basically developed into intolerant, homophobic and misogynous religions. Both religions have grown themselves by the sword instead of good deeds and continue with their immoral ways in spite of secular law showing them the moral ways.

Jesus said we would know his people by their works and deeds. That means Jesus would not recognize Christians and Muslims as his people, and neither do I. Jesus would call Christianity and Islam abominations.

Gnostic Christians did in the past, and I am proudly continuing that tradition and honest irrefutable evaluation based on morality.

https://topdocumentaryfilms.com/theft-values/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxoxPapPxXk

Humanity centered religions, good? Yes. Esoteric ecumenist Gnostic Christianity being the best of these.

Supernaturally based religions, evil? Yes. Islam and Christianity being the worst of these.

Regards
DL

Reading your text only convinces me of your dislike of mainstream Christianity, — New2K2

Dislike is mild.
I think hate would be closer to the truth. I say that proudly as such evil should be hated.

At least I hope it is as hate is born from love and that would show that I have a lot of love for the victims of G D immoral religions.

Would you like Christianity if they had decimated your founding religion and most of it's adherents?

Regards
DL

frank — frank

Let me amend my statement of not finding any objective moral tenets.

I might have found two but have never really had a full debate on them.

One of those is subject to a subjective decision leading it to being objective in all the scenarios I can think of while the other seems to be the only pure objective tenet that I can think of that does not need a subjective view, or perhaps better said, the subjective view always leads to showing it is an objective moral tenet in all situation.

I will put then down after I see what you come up with.

Regards
DL

You mean all moral statements are subjectively true? Are they also objectively true? — frank

For the one individual, I guess we can say that his moral decision is subjective and once his decision is made, it might become objective to him alone.

Since it is individual and subjective at the beginning of the evaluation process, I don't think I would say it has become objectively true.

Objective to me means that there is always only one answer to a moral tenet and I do not know of any tenet that does not begin it's evaluation from a subjective POV.

What would you say is an objective moral tenet?

Regards
DL

433 — alcontali

If you look at the stats, you will find that reproduction drops when contraceptives are available, when education and health care improve, or the standard of living is enhanced.

Because of that, I do not think beliefs, other than right wing fundamentals, has much of an effect.

Mind you, when education goes up, beliefs go down.

This link might help you understand my stance on this issue.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ezVk1ahRF78

Regards
DL