Comments

  • Donald Trump (All General Trump Conversations Here)
    Trump is a proto-hitler: he's maniac enough, but has none of the other necessary qualities. Which implies that someone, something, more substantially evil is running him, somehow. Love of money? Russian blackmail? — tim wood
  • Donald Trump (All General Trump Conversations Here)
    ↪Wayfarer

    I believe Hitler and Stalin would thrive in the present day American political system. — Merkwurdichliebe
  • Donald Trump (All General Trump Conversations Here)
    ↪Wayfarer


    Is anyone else nervous about society right now? I'm nervous. I haven't been this nervous in a while. Since the twin towers fell. But I think I might be even more nervous now than I was then because it feels like America is starting to war with it'self and it's neighbors and it's planet with no concern for ethics what so ever. — Lif3r
  • Donald Trump (All General Trump Conversations Here)
    ↪Wayfarer


    I think saying it is a joke, or an illness.
  • Donald Trump (All General Trump Conversations Here)
    ↪Wayfarer


    [quote="Wayfarer;360862"]The world has a stake in America being taken over by a criminal cult.[/quote]

    You’re just making it easy for me.
  • Donald Trump (All General Trump Conversations Here)
    ↪NOS4A2


    I’ve come to believe it’s more live action role playing. They get to live out a fantasy of an oppressive force while at the same time remaining completely safe and comfortable, and all of it to disguise the moral depravity hidden within. The impeachment, for instance, is a fantasy. — NOS4A2

    Exactly.
  • Donald Trump (All General Trump Conversations Here)
    ↪praxis


    How does it feel to know that right now you are exactly like all the people in Germany who sat around and did nothing while Jews were burned? — deletedmemberMD

    It’s not hard.
  • Donald Trump (All General Trump Conversations Here)
    ↪praxis


    he'll take a leaf from Erdoğan's book - suspend the constitution, start to round up his accusers, and move towards extending his term extra-constitutionally. — Wayfarer
  • Free Labour: A Hypothetical
    ↪ovdtogt


    You’ve just repeated what I said.
  • Free Labour: A Hypothetical
    ↪I like sushi


    Leisure time is a difficult thing. We love our weekends and we love the public holidays. It gives us a chance to indulge in our private lives, which generally takes second place to our public life. Family and friends seem to come together more naturally in this extra time. With more time we seem to be able to balance our priorities more effectively. But anecdotal evidence suggests a problem for many retirees with the amount of time on their hands. It’s a similar situation for those on unemployment, though the circumstances have different consequences.

    People seem to need something, maybe a challenge, which work supplies. Youths without direction tend to get into trouble, work, even though they might resent it, at least creates a sense of purpose.

    So let’s assume only a small percentage of the population take up this leisure time and successfully turn it into an occupation that fulfils them and creates some sort of income. Where would they stand in society, how would they be viewed by the rest, as someone lucky, someone talented and exceptional, or even a separate class to be valued differently than everyone else?
  • Donald Trump (All General Trump Conversations Here)
    ↪ovdtogt


    Google it man..do your own homework. — ovdtogt

    You made the statement so it rests with you to prove it. Which of course you can’t do because it’s ridiculous.

    One day this OP will be used as a document in the study of mass hysteria. The comments made on this OP right from the start are full of hysterical nonsense about the end of the world, fascism, catastrophic consequences and war. It’s mass hysteria that plays into the hands of totalitarianism, which is what this OP amounts to. Look at the way any difference of opinion is attacked. And this from supposedly intelligent, reasoning people.
  • Donald Trump (All General Trump Conversations Here)
    ↪ovdtogt


    I guess my point went right over your head.
  • Free Labour: A Hypothetical
    ↪I like sushi


    Assuming the system isn’t massively abused what other problems or benefits can you imagine arising. — I like sushi

    I imagine a lot more people investing their time in things that give them pleasure and satisfaction. It’s not hard to imagine the knock-on effects of that. What the consequences of having a smaller income are I’m not sure? Quite a lot of money is invested in having a job, transport, clothes, etc.
  • Donald Trump (All General Trump Conversations Here)
    ↪ovdtogt


    I imagine the fact that Impeachment is being considered by the Democrats would be one strike against your comment, also the fact that the Republicans, an elected body, may block it, is another strike against your opinion.

    Edit: spell out the obvious.
  • Donald Trump (All General Trump Conversations Here)
    ↪ovdtogt


    If you don't see parallels with the 1930's you are being wilfully blind. — ovdtogt

    Yes, I’d like to see the parallels with the 1930’s myself.
  • Free Labour: A Hypothetical
    ↪I like sushi


    This sounds like an emphasis on leisure time. Have you read "In Praise of Idleness" by Bertrand Russell? There was also some debate once about job sharing. It's interesting that there's so little public discussion these days about leisure time. Now it's jobs jobs jobs.

    Edit: I have personally seen evidence of people developing opportunities for themselves in their leisure time when they work a few days a week and make an income from it.
  • Simplicity-Complexity
    ↪Possibility


    I don’t see it that way. I may have some false starts at trying to explain how I see this, so bear with me. But in my view, natural selection is not so much the child of evolution as its nemesis. — Possibility

    Just a bit of frivolity there. Hopefully it won’t get me banned.

    I think I grasp where you’re coming from, I’m just not in agreement with all of it.

    I meant the brilliance of natural selection resulted in us. Some may not be impressed with the result, but that’s just indulgence of the fortunate. The fact that you can contemplate the universe in the way you do suggests some measure of success. It’s possible natural selection is coming to an end, who knows? But that’s the force behind us being here now. You view it as a negative force that restricts possibilities (if I understand you correctly). Maybe it’s possible we’ve reached that point in time where natural selection no longer has the control it once had, that we are no longer caught up in it. But if natural selection is about survival then for us it has done its job brilliantly.
  • Simplicity-Complexity
    ↪ZhouBoTong


    Is there any form of consciousness that you would be prepared to accept as less complex than a human’s?
    — Brett

    I am not convinced that I understand consciousness (no, actually I am rather sure that I do not, haha)...does science think it understands it at this point (I really am not sure of the current consensus)?

    How then, would I begin to rank them according to simplicity/complexity?     — ZhouBoTong

    I understand your point about ranking according to simplicity/complexity. But I feel there must be a point where you can begin where there is enough evidence to begin with and work up from there and find the place where it’s impossible to compare, use that point as a beginning reference. The problem is that whoever chooses to can say that there’s no unit of measurement and therefor no possibility of discussion, not even the ides of suspending your own beliefs for a moment.

    For instance, is this acceptable or is it once again only the subjective view of David Heath?

    “Life Cycle of a Freshwater Pearl Mussel. The life cycle of most freshwater mussels is more complex than in most bivalves, involving the parasitism of a fish host.(http://bivalves.teacherfriendlyguide.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=24&Itemid=136).

    It seems to me a comfortable position to sit back and dismiss the idea that humans might be more complex than bivalves as subjective, or too difficult to even consider. Maybe everyone could try just a little bit harder.
  • Simplicity-Complexity
    ↪TheMadFool


    f this idea that simplicity evolves into complexity is true then what explains the quite obvious fact that humans when engaged in creative acts can never produce something more complex than humans themselves? All our inventions no matter how advanced are but cheap imitations of nature. — TheMadFool

    I think it’s worth considering your OP asking why there no evidence of something more complex than humans created by humans and looking to material evidence for that proof and not finding it. It’s indicative of our whole nature, don’t you think, and possibly our predicaments, that evidence of complexity created by us should be sought in things, that evidence of our intelligence is to be found in things.
  • Simplicity-Complexity
    ↪ovdtogt


    ovdtogt I barely understand anything you say. You’re too cryptic for me.
  • Simplicity-Complexity
    ↪Possibility


    Humans don’t need to create something more complex than themselves to demonstrate that simplicity evolves into complexity. Humans themselves have evolved into more complex organisms, and continue to evolve, particularly in relation to their capacity for more complex mental structures. — Possibility

    Yes.
  • Simplicity-Complexity
    ↪god must be atheist


    My logic and my arguments irrefutably show that YOU ought not to agree as well that we go from simple to complex, if you follow logic and reason. — god must be atheist
  • Simplicity-Complexity
    ↪god must be atheist


    It is sort of absurd, though, to think that a conversation should cease because you disagree.
  • Simplicity-Complexity
    ↪god must be atheist


    By "you" above I meant general "you" not you particularly or you alone as a person. — god must be atheist

    Of course.
  • Simplicity-Complexity
    ↪god must be atheist


    We don't have to agree, because you've removed yourself from the conversation.
  • Simplicity-Complexity
    ↪Possibility


    But, natural selection is the brilliant child of evolution?
  • Simplicity-Complexity
    ↪Possibility


    Okay, agreed. So we go from simple to complex?
  • Simplicity-Complexity
    ↪Possibility


    I’m trying to decide if the planet earth is or is not part of evolution. Is that fragment that was part of the Big Bang not like a seed that requires ideal conditions to thrive? Many other planets/seeds came to rest on their orbit in a place that was not congenial to their growth. Of course that may have already happened, they thrived and died. But either way it was all random. Is the earth an example of survival of the fittest?
  • Simplicity-Complexity
    ↪Possibility


    I assume a purpose in actions required to survive. But a purpose for evolution, no, because it’s dependent on random mutations.
  • Does Hell Exist?
    ↪Bartricks


    Okay, I’m going to think about this.
  • Does Hell Exist?
    ↪Bartricks


    then you must exist at the time your bodily existence ends. — Bartricks

    Yes, but surely only up to that point, like a light going off.
  • Does Hell Exist?
    ↪Bartricks


    1. If an event is harmful to a person, that person must exist at the time of the event.
    2. Death is an event that is harmful to the one who dies.
    3. Therefore, the person who dies exists at the time of the event of their death     — Bartricks

    The argument establishes two things. First that we survive our deaths, — Bartricks

    I don’t see this. Where is it that we survive our deaths?
  • Simplicity-Complexity
    ↪Possibility


    It is Darwin’s natural selection that assumes a purpose to everything, not me — Possibility

    I don’t think Darwinism assumes a purpose. But I’m happy to use impetus instead of purpose in this conversation.
  • Simplicity-Complexity
    ↪Possibility


    If this idea that simplicity evolves into complexity is true then what explains the quite obvious fact that humans when engaged in creative acts can never produce something more complex than humans themselves? — TheMadFool

    So then, bear with me,

    1) simplicity does evolve into complexity; humans evolve into more complex humans

    2) the creative impetus is behind evolution

    3) evolution is not about creating

    4) humans don’t create more complex things, they evolve, which is not the same as creating. They’re tools of creation.

    5) is creating a simple thing or complex thing?
  • Simplicity-Complexity
    ↪Possibility


    I think that humans also evolve into something at least marginally more complex than themselves all the time: other humans. — Possibility

    This is probably true.
  • Simplicity-Complexity
    ↪Possibility


    If that’s the case, then what is the rest of the universe there for? — Possibility

    So I’m guessing then that from your perspective everything has a purpose, or at least is part of a whole with meaning.
  • Simplicity-Complexity
    ↪Possibility


    But I need to clarify whether by ‘evolution’ you mean ‘how life evolved’, or ‘Darwin’s theory of natural selection’. Natural selection as proposed by Darwin has no effect on non-life. Evolution, as I understand it, began at the proposed ‘Big Bang’, and is inclusive of natural selection as a key ‘limiting’ factor. — Possibility

    I see ‘evolution’ and Darwinism as the same thing. I know that ‘non- life’ is unable to pass on genes and therefore become part of the process of natural selection. But the fact that the earth, among other planets, was in the ideal position from the sun to begin to propagate life which began the evolution of life forms is part of that whole idea of having the best characteristics to survive and thrive. Nature favours traits or characteristics that are beneficial in a specific environment. It seems to me that was the case with the planet earth.

    Edit: though on reflection I see a weakness there about favouring traits that are beneficial, beneficial to what and how?
  • Simplicity-Complexity
    ↪ZhouBoTong


    Is a dog's consciousness simpler or more complex than a human's? How so? — ZhouBoTong

    Is there any form of consciousness that you would be prepared to accept as less complex than a human’s?
  • Are we making social changes based on a product that excites us briefly with ideas about ourselves?
    ↪ovdtogt


    Without fear/desire you would not get out of bed in the morning. — ovdtogt

    If your defining desire as anything done consciously then I probably can’t argue the point. But there might be things done for others unconsciously that you may not even be aware of. That would depend on who you are, the nature of your life. Or you just might not be very aware of how you operate.
  • Simplicity-Complexity
    ↪god must be atheist


    Complexity is not a measurable quantity. Therefore you can't say this is more complex or that is more complex, as there is no standard to measure complexity with. — god must be atheist


    This what you stated and called as obvious, is actually a false sentence and a false proposition. Humans have created much more complex things than humans themselves are. — god must be atheist

    Then why make this statement?
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