This incident, the George Floyd murder, and others clearly show that police can go too far without even using their guns. I’d think that every police department would be looking to avoid such injustices in the future. Maybe national standards for police, instead of local disparities and accidents waiting to happen like the Memphis Scorpion unit. Police need to change their tactics from “fight fire with more fire” to “neutralize the fire with water”. If the police departments don’t want to be “defunded”, they must change and evolve... quickly.

More cameras would help. Without the videos, the police in this incident could have claimed and gotten any with nearly anything. Like they have thousands of times before. Transparency... whether the police or anyone else like it or not. And rigorous drug testing for police, especially for substances that would make them more aggressive, like steroids and uppers / meth.

Speaking of steroids, I have an unsubstantiated theory that many police officers are former football players (high school or college). Perhaps they still have that warlike, violent, homophobic, misogynistic attitude of “smash them before they can do anything to you”. And it’s possible that they are suffering from the lingering effects of concussions, which can increase violent behavior. Just a guess... (and that’s not even getting deep into the American culture of increasingly extreme violence. Just look at a UFC “sporting event” to see the situation in a bloody nutshell).

Ok, thanks. Still trying to get all the details on the tragedy. The video is difficult to watch, knowing the outcome... the feeling of no escape, sanity or mercy.

That’s the bizarre thing. All the officers had cameras mounted on them. They knew this. And still acted as they did. Were they high on steroids? Caffeine? Adrenaline? Was it some Lord of the Flies groupthink power trip fuckup? Goodness knows. Stay tuned for the trial.

The image has no substance because justice is not unidimensional or ungrounded. There is no justice without social justice. There is no social justice without structural change. And there is no structural change without ideological change. >>Prejudice produces injustice. — Baden

Yes yes and yes. :100:

Which makes one dizzy contemplating the work to be done... assuming that a large enough percentage of people agree in general, which doesn’t even seem to be the case... YET.

Must keep chipping away. It’s all too much. I need some CBD. And need to watch The Lord of the Rings again to convince myself that tiny Hobbits can overcome an army of demons.

Yes. Tragic and nauseating, but true.

Do people whose skin is brown or black need to have a helmet in their car to wear in the event of being stopped by the police? Just to hopefully prevent brain damage from clubs? How do you protect yourself from such attacks? If you lock your doors, that’s probably an invitation for the police to start shooting. Unbelievable.

I hope this is the last time this happens. I fear that is only wishful thinking. Maybe the next time police brutality happens, if the victim is white, female, or famous... maybe that will truly get everyone in an overdue righteous uproar.

Bad cops, bad cops... whatcha gonna do
Whatcha gonna do, when they come for... YOU?!
(to paraphrase the theme song from a show that made arrests of black people into entertainment. Not surprisingly, it was initially on the Fox network. New episodes are still being aired.)

Peace to the family and friends of Tyre Nichols.

This is shocking. The violence and thuggery from public officials. More shocking that this keeps happening. Over and over and over...

Jail for the assailants, of course. But also accountability higher up too. The five officers did the crime. But those in charge of them created conditions for this to happen.

A gang of young inexperienced fully armed police patrolling at night driving unmarked vehicles in a unit called “SCORPION”? WTF were the supervisors thinking? Criminal negligence at best. Murder accessory is more accurate. This crime goes higher than the officers.

Bonobos (our closest relatives) are highly promiscuous and use sex to defuse tensions avoid fights, and promote social cohesion. For humans, it is much more a matter of status, and therefore it is socially controlled. Specifically, society is patriarchal and patrilineal, and this necessarily leads to the need to control women's sexual activity, because while the mother is easily known by the fact of giving birth, the father must be presumed. Thus we arrive at the notion of women as property, assets for reproduction that need to be guarded. Religion serves the nobility, the propertied class, to protect their bloodline from pollution. This is why female prostitutes are tolerated, but wives must be virginal. See Charles and Diana for example.

This is the background into which pornography is projected. Women are already commodified as assets to be owned or rented.

Pornography is both advertising and product. It functions to create the need that it then satisfies momentarily, and unsatisfactorily. So it induces addiction, and deliberately. And the nature of all addiction and all advertising is that the hunger is stimulated more than it is satisfied. — unenlightened

You do wonder what the effect must be of digital pornography suddenly appearing in cultures which had previously been characterised by extremely censorious and proscriptive sexual mores, where women are veiled and extramarital sex is punishable by death. It's a long way between that and the kind of sexuality that is routinely depicted in contemporary porn, which nowadays anyone in a remote rural village can access via their new smartphone. I can only imagine that the effects would be truly explosive. You do wonder if it is implicated in the so-called 'rape culture' of the sub-continent. — Wayfarer

It's sad that our ideals don't include our nature - we have to discard that which makes us us to be any good in some people's eyes. Sex is a case in point. We're sexual creatures, our libido being, as is obvious, liberated from the rhythms of the universe; quite unlike other animals, we're arousable 24×7, 7 days a week, 30 days a month, whole year round. That's biological sexual revolution, anticipates and dwarfs the cultural sexual revolution of the 60s and 70s in me humble opinion. We'll always be unworthy in our own eyes. — Agent Smith

The most obvious one giving children a badly skewed version of sex, love and relationships. It's not the sight of naked people that's a problem - in fact, that would be healthy, if the naked people were depicted engaging in normal, benign activities. But they're not, and what they're doing is not simply coupling like normal people. There is a lot of kink, fetishism, deviance - and no, I don't mean same sex couples who are both alive and willing - sadism, etc. That's not the way to introduce children to understanding sexual desire or sexual fulfillment.
Then, there is the issue of respect for self and others. If the most intimate acts are on display as performance by paid participants, what is the child to think of the dignity and value of persons? How is he supposed to respect anyone's privacy? Or curb his own baser impulses? How is he supposed to think about, talk to, show consideration for potential romantic partners? Pornography won't turn all the little boys into rapists and all the little girls into sluts... but it's not doing much for interpersonal relations. — Vera Mont

People get hooked on phonics--a desirable addiction. They also get hooked on Crispy Creme donuts, Coca Cola, coffee, Diet Pepsi, work, McDonalds, the New York Times, shopping at Neiman Marcus, fishing, working out at the gym, watching soap operas, and so on. We will, in due course, become hooked on porn too -- if we happen to like it. Will spending too much time at work negatively affect your relationship? Yes, it will. Can Crispy Creme donuts ruin your life? Yes, if you eat enough of them. How watching football all the time? Heard of 'football widows'? — BC

You're right but it's worth mentioning that sexual energy (libido) can be sublimated into other areas of activity. Culture can be thought of in one sense as a system for sublimating sexual energy (in humans) and directing it towards other means. Before culture emerged most of human energy (sexual) was spent only on biological imperatives (like animals). Consider a simple example such as how certain religions require abstinence from some or all of their members; this would be a strong form of sublimation. Weaker forms of sublimation take on the appearance of cultural norms, taboos, and such. The more sexually liberated a society is the less sublimated energy is available for the social and cultural apparatus. Pornography thus can be understood to be a desublimating agent. What that might mean i have my speculations. — punos

:100: :up: :clap:
Lot of insightful comments in this thread! These are just a small sample. Thanks everyone.

:smile: :up:

Most cities have an area where one can go for things that are usually frowned upon or just difficult to get. Even if these things are still illegal, in these (usually rundown) areas one can obtain them with less risk than elsewhere. The hypocrisy of the situation, and class and racial inequities aside... for whatever reason these places exist on the margins. Never in the center, unless it’s Las Vegas or something.

These physical places have their counterparts in both the cultural and individual psyche. Is the individual who gives into such temptations “going astray”? Or are they just being a human being with regular human needs? Could be either or both, depending on the situation. It’s a difficult and potentially dangerous situation in any case. Addiction, arrest, shame, violence, the cost of time, energy, money, etc...

The dominant culture (I use that term intentionally) has little regard to such things as balance, harmony, the sacredness of all, and “having enough”. (So little regard that such terms seem idealistic at best, wacky at worst). Also little or no respect for animals and nature, both of which are seen as the uncouth ground on which we stand, to be covered up. Or they’re seen as mere raw materials, to do with whatever the hell we want. There is still (amazingly) a large number of people who don’t want to believe in the reality of the theory of evolution. Possibly because they can’t accept that humans are related to lowly animals, even distantly?

Therefore, a culture of this type will not put human needs at the top of the priority list. Those things that feed into the fantasy of absolute dominance over “dumb” and “crude” nature, and dominance over “those weird / backwards / wrong people from other lands” are the priority. They get the lion share of everything. Every other aspect of human nature has to try to get its fill after the lions have eaten most of the food, so to speak. Those people and things that symbolize weak and unrefined “nature” will usually be exploited or ignored. Women, children, brown-black-red-yellow people, the eldery, tribal cultures, etc. This is the imbalance and very foundation of our civilization. The insatiable devouring Machine. The Death Star. Mordor. The land of hungry ghosts. The Wasteland. The hatred of the Yin.

Why should we live like lowly and simple furry mammals and primates... when we can conquer and rule the world and build titanium towers to the heavens? (irony intended)

It could be called the ShiteBox... a place where some go to shoot the shite. With or without shouting.

And when the shite-ing and shouting become too much, the Soapbox can be used to stand on, and clean things up.

In those days, a strange wanderer named Agustino fell in with them. And lo, he created mayhem and havoc wherever they might go, until he mysteriously disappeared, having most likely been taken up to heaven without tasting death. — Noble Dust

Yea! And Amen! It is prophesied that he shall return during the endtimes.
(which should be in about 3 weeks... ) :halo: :monkey:

I’d take 10 magic lamps with a powerful genie inside each! Muhahahaha!
(sorry, i just watched Aladdin with Robin Williams). :monkey:

Mostly, no. It's not for everyone, and I suffered psychosis from psilocybin. It should be noted that there's a bias towards reporting positive experiences on the internet that makes psychedelics look warm and friendly, even if you're down and depressed internally, which can contribute to a bad trip.

How about you? — Shawn

Wow, sorry to hear that! Well sometimes you have to experiment...

I have not tried magic mushrooms, but I would probably try a small dose. LSD scares me, even if i knew it was from a good source. But i hear some people have benefited from micro-dosing it.

Right now, CBD and hemp infused with delta-8 is proving very helpful, physically and emotionally. I’m still learning the science of it, like make it more bioavailable in the body by eating it with fat, since it’s fat-soluble. Black pepper and others herbs help the body absorb it better.

https://www.anaviimarket.com/blogs/news/what-is-cbd-bioavailability-and-why-does-it-matter

Number one addiction in terms of number of people? Sugar.

I think a huge health problem in “developed nations” is diabetes, and related blood sugar conditions. The majority of adults I know (including myself) are affected. And many of them are having trouble breaking the sugar / refined white flour habit.

It’s a tough addiction to break, because a person will start getting faint and cranky when the blood sugar dips low on its roller coaster ride. Then they will probably eat more snacks which only temporarily solves the problem. I went years with low blood sugar and brain fog before switching to a low-carb diet.

It’s an adjustment to go low-carb, but after a week it feels great. And just gets better and easier. Thank goodness for Stevia as a sugar replacement. Basically there are only two sources of energy for the body: carbohydrates and fats. A diet high in sugars and refined flour tells the body to STORE FAT. A diet high in fat (strangely enough) tells the body to BURN FAT. And the high fat diet will promote a stabilizing of insulin release, so all those symptoms like irritability, confusion, hunger are gone.

We have this fear of eating fats. We think our arteries will clog and we’ll gain massive weight. I think most of us are probably low on fat, especially the omega-3 fats.

Don’t fear our friends the fatty foods. Have an avocado! :victory:

Not about hedonism; but, more about therapy with psychedelics. — Shawn

Was your experience with psychedelics positive? (If I may ask)

Definitely! :up: Monoculture / McWorld has been spreading around the globe for many years. There’s only a couple hundred square miles yet to be conquered. Viva modern man!

Consumerism backed by Capitalism sanctioned by Civilization anointed by Christianity.

That is, consume the whole planet so we can live like royalty because economists much smarter than us have shown that the “free market” is the best way to assert our dominance over primative peoples, animals, and the hunk of raw material we call Earth. This whole mess is anointed holy and good, and white-washed by a corrupt Church seeking worldly power. The only thing more corrupt and hypocritical is the government legalizing this galactic pyramid-building scam.

How can you blow up the Death Star when you’re living on it?

But this may be veering onto larger or different topics. I actually think hemp / cannabis are wonderful things and have been unfairly repressed and cruelly punished.

My wild guess is that weed tends to make people a little more reflective, peaceful and content. We can’t have that in a “Make War-Get More” society. It’d wreck the whole scheme!

The unexamined life is worth a pile of jack-squat, said Emerson. (Or maybe it was Matt Foley, motivational speaker?)

But seriously, I usually get these type of thoughts when there is a looming choice to be made, or when going through trial by fire #3527. Then reading Greek myths or other stories of transformation, death and rebirth, and metamorphosis is comforting and maybe even helpful. At least it helps me procrastinate a little more.

The one thing each of us knows most about is ourselves and our lives. But I suspect that the even most aware of us is only skimming the surface of our entirety (whatever that is). If our unconscious were totally accessible and conscious, we still might be in the dark about our own life... and we had a front row seat.

Like Bart Simpson said, after taking Focusyn (a fictional ADHD drug): “most people only use 10% of their brain. Today I am one of them”. :snicker:

Not exactly sure how this relates to the OP about being something that we are not. Have we really discovered and explored all of our being? Maybe someone has. It probably took a while.

We humans along with all living beings on this Earth are firmly rooted in duality. Ups and downs, pleasure and pain, hot and cold...

Some have discovered/believed/theorized that underneath is something more, something whole... for lack of better words. Existing right now, not just in the afterlife. I think we all have had glimpses of it, moments of awakening, perhaps in dreams ironically. This well-known quote reflects this notion:

“If the doors of perception were cleansed every thing would appear to man as it is, Infinite. For man has closed himself up, till he sees all things thro' narrow chinks of his cavern.”
― William Blake, The Marriage of Heaven and Hell

As does the concept of Being, Consciousness, and Bliss in Hindu philosophy. A related idea to Plato’s Cave Allegory...

Hmmm... sounds like a good idea for a movie. Oh wait... :grin:
Excellent movie. This scene is one of the funniest things I’ve ever seen.

Do I detect a note of sarcasm? :roll: — jgill

An attempt at pointed humor aimed at the ruling “elite”. They wanted powerless, mindless, addicted sheep that they could control. Mission accomplished! Baaaaa!

Universal basic income provided by the state? Is this part of the "truth"? — jgill

About UBI, States, Governments, and people looking for a free handout... parasites! All of them are bloodsuckers. No more!

There is only one way to get rid of the entitled vampires bleeding us dry. Fire all politicians.

The OP (seems to me) to reflect an influence of writers like Daniel Quinn, who dealt with the intertwined subjects of “totalitarian agriculture” (farming, forestry, mining, etc that is indifferent to its effect on the environment. Usually done in an attempt to dominate other peoples as opposed to mere survival). And also “Mother Culture” (his term for the process of creating the mythos supporting domination and perpetuating it).

Basically, Quinn was critical of the mindset that the world was human property absolutely, ours to do whatever we wanted. And anything or anyone who dissented this “divine mandate” for humans to grab control of the Earth was impeding Progress. And thus fit to be steamrolled unless these “uncivilized people” stepped aside, according to the personified Mother Culture.

It is the modern mindset, our mindset, injected deep in our psyches at an early age, and reinforced often. Human evil didn’t start with totalitarian agriculture. But it was like crystal meth, in terms of energy and addiction, adding seemingly endless fuel to the fire.

Since writing the philosophical novels Ishmael and The Story of B in the 1990s, world events have only made Quinn (and fellow deep ecologists) all the more relevant... unfortunately.

Could you give a summary of the video perhaps? The highlights or most relevant to your post... thanks.

But just the thread title makes me nod in agreement. Something is rotten in Denmark, and if we follow the money we are certain to find the stinkers. Let the 1% devour each other like huge dinosaurs to give us little primates some room. Being clever primates, we each have a monkey wrench. But where in the machine to throw it?

There is something of a movement in psychiatry to regard hearing voices as a natural phenomenon. It is much more common than is generally supposed, because it is hidden by being stigmatised. but people experience something that the scientist will have to characterise as "their thoughts" as coming from elsewhere. But I have argued above that this is a dogma. If there can be one person in a head, why is it impossible for there to be two? Before the scientific dogma became so totalising and dominant as to declare such deviations insane, it was well understood that one would hear voices that might be devilish or angelic, and indeed the voice of conscience was understood by Catholic Christians at least, to be the ultimate arbiter of right and wrong. — unenlightened

Wow, didn’t know there was a growing awareness of “hearing voices”. Thanks for sharing that! :pray:

It’s a good thing IMHO specifically for those actually hearing voices (and seeing visions, according to the website). But also in general, an acceptance of how the mind works (or at least might work), and the tremendous variety of how people’s mind can function and deal with their experiences and environment. Reminds me of the animated movie Inside Out a little.

Usually, I really don’t hear voices that I might think are physical or “real”, just the usual running conversations amongst my various personalities lol. It’s a lot more peaceful than it used to be. The personalities are more cohesive even when disagreeing. Acceptance of self, life, others etc probably helps. A part of ourselves that we refuse to accept can become splintered and dangerous. Dr Jeckyll and Mr Hyde come to life...

What was a guiding voice, knowledge, seems in modern man to have entirely possessed everyman, and insists on pain of incarceration and worse, that possession is a fantasy, and knowledge is all there is to life. — unenlightened

Long long ago, Wisdom was retired and put out to pasture as a quaint but out-of-date remnant of ancient times. Knowledge was strong and had boundless energy, and took over most of Wisdom’s duties. Recently, Information has been ascendant, with trillions of dollars made. Information’s illegitimate son Random Internet Stuff and Conspiracies (RISC) seems to be a rising star... :wink:

Play nice ethics are fine for the mundane business of rubbing along
— 0 thru 9

Don't underestimate them. Epiphanies are rare. It's mostly about paying your bills, apologising for errors, letting go of grudges. I would pull out a story about a guy going to to the top of the mountain to seek the meaning of life and being told to stop blocking his neighbour's driveway with his car. But I can't think of one. There are thousands with that message. — Cuthbert

A fair point, thanks. Ethics are of supreme importance. Otherwise, one seems to be a ship drifting with no one steering and no anchor, at the mercy of the tide. If ethics are the pillars of stability, we perhaps also need some more personal compass to direct us, something in tune with our exact situation and unique life. Maybe the guidance one feels at times grows out of the ground of ethics that we stand on.

Perhaps the whispering guidance we hear and the moral pillars we have are connected, if not two sides of the same coin. The little things in life are important, as you suggest. We search for a light to help us see clearly to take even small steps.

We have recourse to mechanical explanations - memes, conditioning, and so on, but mechanical explanations themselves call into question the existence of the unitary observer that constitutes the scientist's viewpoint.

The old fashioned fudge of the psychoanalysts is the divided self, unconscious of its division, but the effect on the observer is the same in the end - the observer cannot be trusted. And so we arrive at postmodernism, often characterised by its detractors as 'anti-science ant anti-truth. And woke. — unenlightened

I think that there are limits to every thing in our relative world. Including wonderful science. But that is not really a problem, unless we make it one. We have enough trouble comprehending finite things. These two ants on my kitchen counter are communicating something to each other that is beyond me. We can take objective observer science as far as it can go. And if we can integrate field theory (both quantum and Lewin’s psychological take) in some meaningful way, that it great.

But until then giving more respect and attention to the seemingly ordinary ways of living and being is definitely in order. If a behavior has been around for thousands of years or more, it probably works. And contains more than meets the eyes, especially our jaded materialistic ones half-blinded by screens.

About the topic of guidance, it might suit one to keep an curious mind and flexible heart. One can steer well clear of superstition and still look for signs around us, giving us clues drip by drip like we are some kind of bumbling detective trying to solve the mystery of how to live within this unique and infinitely complex single day.

The Cartesian tradition -- you know the guy, 'I think therefore I am' and coordinate geometry - the foundation of knowledge and science man -- that tradition takes human identity as the certain foundation, the objective atom that is the observer. According to the tradition, it is impossible and unthinkable that my thoughts are not my own, that my mind might be haunted or even possessed by other beings. People who experience themselves as permeable to otherness in these ways are declared to be deluded - because it is impossible. — unenlightened

Interesting... thanks! I think it is unscientific to believe any idea just because it might appeal to us for some reason. But it’s equally unscientific to poo-poo anything that doesn’t conform to our current worldview or fit in our comfort zone. The world is larger and more surprising than our even the imaginations of great artists. If a plastic radio can pick up invisible waves, it is not out of the realm of possibility that the human brain (the most complex thing in the known universe) can tune into brain waves from other humans. It hasn’t been proven AFAIK, but I believe research is ongoing... and worth the effort. And this is not even taking into account men who stare at goats. :nerd:

Still, one can see some curious phenomena playing out in history on various scales that are difficult to explain. There are waves of mass movement of people where what was unthinkable becomes not only thinkable, but doable and completely natural. The enlightenment itself was one such mass movement of mind; the transformation of Germany in the 1930's is another; The hippy movement in the late 60's another. The facts are these; that multitudes change their minds quite radically quite quickly, and yet we want to claim that their thoughts are entirely their own, even the crazies who do not think so. — unenlightened

Reminds me of the theory of noosphere, a theoretical realm of thought that may have an effect on humans. Again, it hasn’t been proven. But very intriguing at the least. Why does the same thought or feelings seem to happen in large groups of people all at once? Why does a school of fish or flock of birds all change direction at the same time? Why were intelligent, sane, and sober people paying $30,000 for an imaginary digital “coin”? One day we may know the answers to these mysteries!

You seem to be talking about supernatural guidance. While I believe people contrive all kinds of meaning in events they view as signs or portents, I do not have any good reasons to accept magical thinking of this kind. :smile: — Tom Storm

Sorry? I’m not understanding where I said anything about the supernatural? I don’t think the word “metaphysical” necessarily refers to anything like that, if that’s what you mean. Thought itself is beyond the physical in a sense. Magical thinking... Show me where I’m wrong (or on thin ice) and I’ll agree!

But this is a subtle psychological topic I’ll grant you... not taking about mathematics or formal logic. :wink:

I was quoting Joseph Campbell in another thread, might be appropriate here in a discussion of myth:

“Myth is what we call other people's religion.”
― Joseph Campbell

“Half the people in the world think that the metaphors of their religious traditions, for example, are facts. And the other half contends that they are not facts at all. As a result we have people who consider themselves believers because they accept metaphors as facts, and we have others who classify themselves as atheists because they think religious metaphors are lies.”
― Joseph Campbell, Thou Art That: Transforming Religious Metaphor

If even one person could master both Philosophy and Myth (and Art) in a way that upheld Plato’s ideals of Truth, Beauty, and Goodness... and find a way to share it with the world... maybe we could find a way out of the desert we are wandering in.

Or maybe someone already has? And we are still trying to grasp it? Would not be too surprising.

There's a nice little story by Mervyn Peake, Mr Pye, you might like... — unenlightened

I’ll look into that. Thanks for the suggestion!

If we are somewhat talking about the same thing, it is not a topic I would normally discuss here in public, because it is necessarily personal and particular and not susceptible to analysis or repeatable experiment. — unenlightened

Yes, individual specifics aside, it seems that we are talking about the same thing. It’s always a nice experience to be understood even when babbling with your mouth full of food... so to speak lol.

Yes... a very personal and individual thing. Perhaps on the border of the real and the imagined, the actual and the possible. Not really in the realm of science (as usually defined). But maybe worthy of investigation...

Along with the expanded description of “guidance”, I added some relevant quotes at the end of the OP in the hopes of illustrating the general direction of the discussion. So much for a short and concise OP lol.

Any further suggestions for quotes that might shed some light would be appreciated. :sparkle:

Not for me. I don't understand what Self or Will mean as transcendent entities (if that's why you capitalised them) - to me the self is merely 'who I am' and I leave Will behind with my copy of Schopenhauer — Tom Storm

Hmm, good point. I didn’t mean to designate self or will as “transcendent entities”. Mostly because I’m fuzzy on what that term might entail, and could complicate things even more. Lower case or in quotes (eg. “will”) would suffice...

But I can see how people stop thinking when they go off and follow a religious apologist or a dictator. Is that an example of guidance taken to a lobotomised state? — Tom Storm

True, caution is needed! Skepticism about one’s own thoughts and desires. A helpful skepticism that counters any imbalances or harmful ideas that may pop up in one’s mind. Not every voice we may hear in our head is to be followed, without risking madness, crime, and destruction.

I know of no form of guidance that isn't practical, although it might be indirect and symbolic rather than overt. What do mean by interior or metaphysical? — Tom Storm

I edited the OP in hopes to make the description of what I mean by guidance at least a little clearer and fuller. I am referring to guidance perceived mentally / psychologically / from within. Aka inspiration or intuition, as commonly defined. But as noted in the edit, physical and material aspects such as symbols possibly could play some role.

Thanks for your reply! :ok:

The Tao Te Ching is the book of the Way, but it's only one way. — T Clark

It’s a comprehensive (but mercifully concise) written guide. (As you undoubtedly know quite well.) It’s only one, yes. One needs only one bridge to travel over the longest river. :hearts:

There are dozens, hundreds, thousands of ways in the world. — T Clark

Thank goodness for that, since there are billions of people and trillions of possible circumstances!

Is that what you mean by guidance? It seems hopelessly broad and vague. — T Clark

Somewhat, yes. I’m still working on understanding that, of course. I edited the OP, and added a fuller description in hopes of being less vague. I’m calling it “metaphysical guidance” now to hopefully be a little more specific. (Not that I could exactly define “metaphysical” very well. That which is not materially based? Hmm, needs work... )

Thanks for your feedback! :flower:

That reminds me of the movie Spartacus. He was in charge of an army of gladiators
and escaped slaves. (Spoiler alert in case someone hasn’t seen the original movie with
Kirk Douglas, if so drop everything right now and watch it lol) And at the end, he had to kill his friend in a sword fight. He did so out of compassion, otherwise his friend would have suffered a more painful death of being crucified.

Your long-running thread about the Tao Te Ching is full of its guidance and inspiration.
I have tried to internalize it so that it helps on a subconscious level, as well as being
rationally helped and directed by it. WWTTD: what would the Tao do?
https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/10427/my-favorite-verses-in-the-tao-te-ching/p1

Another analogy that I find relatable is, despite the rather flippant and yet grave, approach, the so-called gameplay walkthrough of which you'll find many on youtube - basically offering hints & tips on how to play (the game of life) and win summa cum laude in a manner of speaking.

Some games I hear tend to be open-ended (I hope I got that word right) - there are decision nodes in them and depending on the choices you make, the game ends in one of many different ways. I consider such games to be opportunities as they are 1)a journey of self-discovery [tells you what kinda person you are] and 2) a benign, bloodless, way of assessing one's impact on the world at large [virtual murder/philanthropy/betrayal/empathy or lack thereof, you get the idea]. — Agent Smith

You mean hints on how to play characters in video games as a possible metaphor for guidance? (If I’m understanding correctly?) Yes, I could definitely see that! Constant choices in an ever-changing
world (that seems to almost enjoy changing for the worse sometimes. Maybe to teach a lesson or get us to pay attention? I dunno... )

It's as if, behind a veil, a whisper suggests, there is some particular business you have in this time and place. Play nice ethics are fine for the mundane business of rubbing along, but perhaps you have a job to do for yourself or for another; creative or healing, for a moment or a lifetime.

It is a dangerous thought if one indulges it. But danger is nothing special either. Is one ever guided to give guidance? By whom? A friend.

If it is so, it will happen whether you chase it or flee from it, because it it comes from within. — unenlightened

Maybe if I quietly copy and paste your post into the OP, people will think I came up with
something very poetic... lol :blush: j/k

Very nicely put. Much appreciated!

Well, a subtle difference of words. I didn’t see any recent threads on conscience
or guidance. But to me... the word conscience has a connotation of choosing between
“right and wrong”. Which is a part of what I’m getting at, but also something that might
be all-encompassing direction. Something that might inform all aspects of life. I need
guidance, and lots of it! lol.

But that is just my take on it. If the concept of conscience covers it for someone, I could
understand that.

Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy has an excellent article on
conscience (of course)
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/conscience/

I’ll report back if my feelings on the subject charge after reading the whole thing...

Mutatis mutandis, the above applies to all guides! Am I right? I do hope I am. — Agent Smith

Yes... I see what you are referring to, I think. An attempt to map some territory (however comprehensive) is potentially helpful. Even when the “territory” is a mental or theoretical landscape, so to speak. So in that case, something is better than nothing. Some knowledge or information is better than none when heading into unknown or tricky territory. (Assuming the info is at least on the quality level of say Wikipedia.)

But maybe on a “deeper” level (and thus murkier and more difficult to “pin down” or fully grasp), I wonder what are the internal (mental-emotional-spiritual etc) whisperings that allows us to implement the guidance of the written word. To prioritize and edit the sometimes avalanche of information (even the data contained within one single book).

Maybe our psyche has some kind of blueprint (for lack of a better word) that it consults. Then it considers the given information with regards to the situation and knows what to do with that data. Whether we follow our psyche’s (or conscience’s) advice is another matter all together! Just look at Pinocchio and Jiminy Cricket lol...

Thanks for your reply. :smile: