Whoops, redacted! *sarcasm overlooked*

No, never. :rofl: you're debate tactics are incredible.

I'm assuming that's a "no"

You're right and I've already alluded to this: it is not unwise to ask questions, the unwisdom consists in not actively assessing the answers against your own understandings of what you are asking about, or in not paying sufficient heed to your own understanding. — Janus

That seems at best a muddled copy of your initial post:

In a nutshell?
Do your best to abstain from bullshit and self-hatred, and from asking others what those are. — Janus

What this comes down to is that you cannot simply adopt another's wisdom, you can only transform it into a part of your own. — Janus

So wisdom is...let me guess: intersubjective? Or was that five months ago? :joke:

Is that what I said? — apokrisis

Of course not; that's why I re-purposed your terms to make my point, which you didn't get.

Huh? I’m just giving you the psychological explanation - which also happens to be the general Peircean metaphysical story as well.

Another way of talking about it is the distinction between fluid and crystallised intelligence. You can look it all up any time you want. — apokrisis

Appeal to authority much?

Like you said (more or less), intuition is arriving at truth without reason. Intuition means instinctively knowing the truth. Why is this good or wise? Because reason doesn't know what intuition means. But intuition means what reason doesn't know. And neither is "better" than the other.

Meow!

M

Are these the sorts of things you say to your glowing underlings in real life?

I prefer gyros to spaghetti. — Hanover

Treasonous. Avgolemono soup to antipasto, maybe.

I like that definition, although I can tell it’s slanted towards your feelings about intuition. As to what’s good or wise about intuition... what’s particularly good or wise about reasoning?

It's not upsetting, it's just wrong. Wisdom isn't habit. Habit isn't wisdom. Is it wise to live by habit? Is it unwise to be clever? Your terms are clunky and don't reflect use. The dichotomy you're bringing up is legitimate, but wisdom isn't a factor. Habit, or tradition, is what you're looking for, not wisdom.

The annoying thing to me is that, of course, Wakanda is actually just as colonial as any other modern civilization. That's what you get when the colonized west makes a blockbuster Hollywood movie about what an uncolinized Africa would be like. This to me is another example of pretty average, cash-cow art that gets a standing O for being political. It reminds me of show and tell in elementary school; no room for critique.

Bias blind spot: — Mayor of Simpleton

Shouldn't you have rather quoted yourself from back here?

Well... not quite. [Etc, etc, etc...] — Mayor of Simpleton

:rofl:

I view the awareness of coginitve biases as a useful tool that can be applied to check things and one's self... the same as logic is a tool. — Mayor of Simpleton

I agree, but as I said, it's important to realize that it's unavoidable. It's tameable, but a cognition without bias would be a computer...or a mind "made perfect in Christ", etc.

Intuition is always or even often a good thing?

Perhaps I should keep my tools of coginitive bias in pandora's box? Heaven forbid that intuition might be exposed for what it really is and making one's wisdom seem a bit short sighted? — Mayor of Simpleton

What is intuition, then?

It's also a fantasy to imagine that any of our efforts matter in grand scheme of things, other than each individual's ability to bring their own special brand of mediocrity to a tiny aspect of reality, but hey... I personally imagine Sisyphus to be happy if Sisyphus is under the illusion that Sisyphus can choose his own rocks. Try again fail again try to fail better? It's a hobby. — Mayor of Simpleton

Nice deflection. Classic. :razz:

But ah, now your cognitive biases come out! Am I supposed to divulge into a debate of weather Camus had something, or was an average novelist but a poor philosopher? At that point I'd just be arguing with your opinions, your beliefs, your world view, your bias.

:100: :party:

There's certainly wisdom to be gained form Ecclesiastes, as well as Job. It's funny, I used to secretly love Ecclesiastes when I was still in the church. I guess I can see why, now.

Maybe the fact that you'd rather be editing photos than talking about wisdom is indicative of what wisdom is.

I'm just bored by the concept of cognitive bias because everyone has it. So it's important to get to the point where we recognize that we have it, but from there, there's no reason to put it on a pedestal or use it as an intellectual weapon. When we do that, we undermine intuition; you have an intuition about wisdom; so do I. It's a fantasy to imagine that you or I or anyone is abstractly analyzing human thought from a neutral vantage point at which cognitive bias doesn't exist.

I'd say there's some wisdom to be found there. Which I like; I like "defining" things analogically; rather than saying "wisdom is applied knowledge" or whatever, we can point to examples of wisdom. "What is wisdom?" "That is wisdom." What this does is forces us to reflect and critically analyze ourselves to ascertain what exactly is wise in a given example. And critical thought is one aspect of wisdom (but only one).

Not bad, I like that. It seems a very logical definition of wisdom, so my intuitive sense of wisdom isn't satisfied, but there's certainly some wisdom in your idea.

See, you've done the unwise thing and asked another what bullshit and self-hatred are. — Janus

Yeah I know; like I said, I can't imagine what's unwise about asking you questions about the propositions you espoused which you claim are wisdom. If I can't ask "why?" questions in response to your wisdom, then surely you aren't wise for setting up such a rule.

There may be wisdom for you in hating yourself, I can only tell you about my experience. I have found no wisdom in hating myself, although obviously I needed to know what self-hatred is, since I have blindly hated myself, in order to know what to abstain from. — Janus

I said there's wisdom to be learned from self-hatred; not that it's wise to hate oneself.

So, it has nothing much to do with "silence" but rather more to do with learning how to talk to yourself kindly and authentically (with your own voice, that is). — Janus

I don't know what you mean here.

I say "I don't take a definition of wisdom created by psychologists via research very seriously."

Hell, while I'm at it, @Baden... I see you there. What do you think wisdom is?

@Πετροκότσυφας What about you, what do you think wisdom is?

So cognitive bias must ultimately lead to something true, right? If it's such an intense issue, then it surely avails itself of something which is real, as opposed to the unreality of the cognitive bias that lead to the thing that was untrue.

To my arguments. Don't keep wasting my time. :rofl:

Come back with counter-arguments, and I'll take you seriously.

Read again.

As I said, it is a natural cycle. Organisms become well adapted to their worlds by accumulating habits. And that is great until the world changes too abruptly and whacks them for six. That is nature's way. It is how evolution works. Creative destruction. Stop and reset every so often. — apokrisis

You're worshipping evolution as a god. I've seen this attitude in the fundamentalist church; what exposes it is that the form supersedes the function; yes, evolution, the form of physical change, is real. Agreed. So what's it's function? Nothing you've said says anything about it's function, and yet, you assume that the form of evolution precludes it's function; the form is the function. Again, essentially a fundamentalist religion.

So the template you are reaching for is a polarity. One thing must be made right so that the other can be held to be wrong. And you see that in the first responses of others in this thread. — apokrisis

So I'm positing a right and wrong, but you'e not, right? Wait no, that can't be right, because that's obviously not the case.

Again and again.

:clap:

I'm trying really hard to imagine a world in which everyone isolated themselves from others as much as possible.

Is that what you call taking things back? :razz: — apokrisis

Yup! Nerve officially struck. Maybe you'll learn wisdom from this thread; who knows? I'm certainly hoping I do.

But anyway, I set out my argument. I'll have to wait until you can identify some specific fault in it. — apokrisis

I did; read again.

Why live cleverly and well-adaptedly, when you die after about 70 years? This is a question that pertains to the problem of wisdom.

So you took what I said and twisted it to make it fit some template you have acquired and now you feel safe? — apokrisis

No; I have no template. I'm actually trying to figure out what wisdom is. Novel, I know. And I could say the same to you: "So you took what I said and twisted it to make it fit some template you have acquired and now you feel safe?" Let's actually debate. I realize I said you aren't wise, which probably struck a nerve; reasoned debate generally stops there, especially with the unwise. I'll take it back if you like: I don't know if you're wise or not. I haven't seen any wisdom so far, but I'm hopeful that I may see it as we debate. How's that?

Your habit of thought trumps my clever (because it is original to your way or thinking) analysis? — apokrisis

Using your own concept to fail at refuting my points; bad form brah. Explain ya points betta.

It is in fact the wisest views on neurocognition and evolutionary lifecycles that I've encountered. — apokrisis

:rofl: We've found wisdom! Thread closed.

God, reading this thread makes me so fucking angry.

Don't you mean an end to judgement? Once you have the answer, then you are wise. If you still need to judge, you at best only have a clever idea and are still seeking the kind of proof that life delivers. — apokrisis

What? Why would that be the case? Once you have the answer, you just have knowledge you "know". Why are you associating that state with wisdom?

So it doesn't supersede death, right?

Cleverness is an idea that could work. Wisdom is a habit that does work.

That is why the old are wise. They have had the time to develop robust habits of thought.

It is also why the old eventually break down. They get so well-adapted to a familiar way of life that they lose the capacity to adapt to the crazy new ways of living that clever folk are apt to invent. :) — apokrisis

I'm gleaning that per your outlook, there's no perennial anything; there's always flux, and "cleverness" (I don't like that term) is the thing that...does what? Makes the world go round? Possesses the most power? Power for who? The clever person? The community? [nah lmao]. In your conception here, wisdom appears to be a certain resin-encased snapshot of something that was once helpful. What you're missing is that your "cleverness" just continues the cycle of the human condition of oppression. Cleverness is always neutral; it will always create innovative medicine, and innovative ways to gauge pharmaceutical prices. Cleverness knows nothing of the human condition. It just knows power. Wisdom doesn't know power; you don't know wisdom.

In a nutshell?
Do your best to abstain from bullshit and self-hatred, and from asking others what those are. — Janus

That doesn't seem very wise. I don't know what bullshit is; you'd have to elaborate. Self-hatred is corrosive, but it doesn't mean wisdom can't be gleaned from the corrosive experience; there's wisdom to be learned from hating yourself that can't be learned any other way.

Why can't I ask you what those are, if I want to be wise? Some kind of "silence" thing? Screw that, what the hell are those things you mentioned?

I've had a few beatings, yes. Your bizarre analogies are strangely encouraging. I nominate your post as the closest thing to wisdom I've seen so far.

What about a wise man?