Sure, but I was more curious as to what you believe. Is it a civilian? A city-dweller? Who or what possesses the qualities Aristotle sees?

I think Aristotle has an archetype in mind, and am wondering what that archetype may have looked like. Part master, part slave, maybe?

I believe Aristotle said it could be either. There are "natural" slaves, and also those enslaved forcibly whose nature is otherwise. Probably in the Politics?

You’re correct, but since Aristotle I think we’ve come to find that there is no such thing as a natural slave, that they are all slaves by “convention”.

I know, I cited it in the OP. Also Hobbes. Also Aquinas. But I was hoping to start a discussion, not a reading.

The interesting thing about the interview I watched was the chasm between certain portrayals and that which presents itself to my own eyes and ears. I have I think listened to all sides, and though Musk may come off as weird, only one brand of portrayal appears completely unhinged and can be used to justify terrorism.

The so-called checks and balances are working just fine, if you can’t tell by the various injunctions and rulings, and any “subverting constitutional norms and safeguards” will be ironed out in court, the way it always has been.

1 applies, and that’s the sense in which I used it.

spy verb

1 : to watch secretly usually for hostile purposes
2 : to catch sight of : SEE
3 : to search or look for intensively —usually used with out

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/spy

Interview with DOGE. Why do you hate these people?

In either case, their lies - and attacking Goldberg, have made the story bigger.

Maybe in Anti-Trumpistan. But outside it’s gossip and scandal-mongering, and worse, malicious sabotage.

It’s true, Waltz or his staffer screwed up. I don’t deny that. But in terms of fuck-ups, it’s a tiny one. Big deal. On to the next outrage.

It’s guess it’s a shame he could only leak a successful military operation, and not something that would make the administration look terrible. In the scheme of scandals this sits up there with Sharpiegate in its stupidity-to-outrage ratio.

A military serviceman or an intelligence officer using Signal-app to forward timetables of future military strikes, an issue obviously classified in any sitution, would be severely punished. Likely that serviceman or officer would lose his or her job because of his or her recklessness of not following opsec-rules.

That these people don't give a fuck about such issues is the disrespect here. They can pray for the troops as much they want and hold up the flag, but such actions show actually how much they respect following orders.

That the source of your ire is a never-ending list of counterfactuals that you guys can pull out at will makes it look pretty silly, to be honest. Oh, it could have led to a nuke falling on a baby giraffe! You can’t find the disrespect so you have to make it up. That’s how far we’ve come.

Since the US is had it with having any allies (except Israel, I guess) and just wants to cozy up with Russia, what is us to do other than rearm and think our security over?

Cozying up with a bunch of totalitarian nanny-states might not be in our best interests anymore. The cauldron of both communism and fascism is unleashing its next aberration on the world and perhaps cutting the chord is the right thing to do.

You're inconsistent. In the past, you supported the release of newswothy information:

I still do.

Regarding embarrassment: the officials committed the embarassing behavior. Goldberg was doing his job reporting it.

He was spying.

Marco Rubio hasn't served.
Steve Witkoff hasn't served.
John Rattcliffe hasn't served.

Then if you’re going to make such an accusation, quote one of them or describe how one of these three were disrespecting the military and the intelligence services.

Or was it this statement from Waltz? By far, the most newsworthy statement in the whole chat?

“Whether we pull the plug or not today European navies do not have the capability to defend against the types of sophisticated, antiship, cruise missiles, and drones the Houthis are now using. So whether it’s now or several weeks from now, it will have to be the United States that reopens these shipping lanes. ”

Fair enough, but these people are all former military. Unlike Lloyd Austin, Blinken, and Milley and their efforts in Afghanistan, leading to the death of soldiers, they took full responsibility for the debacle.

No, sorry, telling even half an hour when you launch the aircraft is by all means crucial secret information. If intercepted, you do have time to people to take shelter, disperse, bring on the air defenses. And then people like Tulsi Gabbard deny everything.

None of that happened though, and I doubt this sort of leak or the use of the Signal app will continue given these concerns.

Indeed. That has nothing to do with the motives you assign to Goldberg

But his embellishments about war plans and lies about CIA operatives do.

Thanks for the correction. But unlike you I’m not appealing to the authority, only the humor of the statement.

Waltz' childish attack on Goldberg has zero bearing on the serious error Waltz committed. It just shows how dishonorable he is. He ought to be grateful that Goldberg didn't publish what he'd learned. Imagine if Goldberg had published this (allegedly) unclassified information immediately.

Your irrational loyalty to the Trump administration is truly pathetic. You were unwilling to believe Waltz even committed the error and jumped to the conclusion (without evidence) that it was the "deep state". Waltz played you, and you don't even realize it: he's deflected your attention from his error to the irrelevant fact that the recipient is a liberal.

No, I’m willing to believe it, now that the evidence is clear that Walz’s account added him. Now the question is how Jeffry Goldberg was added to Waltz’s contact list, and subsequently the chat.

Goldberg isn’t a liberal. He’s neocon. He was a cheerleader of the Iraq war, and was the one who came up with the “sucker and losers” hoax. Rather than remove himself from the situation or notify other members of the error, he surreptitiously took screenshots and used them to embarrass all involved.

This is such a stupid take. Hillary Clinton sent classified information through her private email server, and she was found to have destroyed much of it, even using hammers on the devices. The two events are not even close.

In any case, the full release of Goldberg’s messages actually make the staff look pretty good, in my view. I was worried that Goldberg might not be lying this time, that there could possibly be “war plans” and the name of a CIA operative, both of which turned out to be false. But JD’s questions about why we are again subsidizing European defense makes me happy to see. Let the EU protect their own shipping lanes. The children there need to learn to stand on their own feet. It reminds me of the Schwarzkopf line “Going to war without the French is like going hunting without an accordion.”.

ROFL!
"When the Fox host asked [Waltz]how Goldberg’s number ended up in the group, Waltz responded: “Have you ever had somebody’s contact that shows their name and then you have somebody else’s number there? " -- source

Sound familiar? (See my prior post)

Clearly you read it. Why did you deliberately leave the rest out?

“Of course I didn’t see this loser in the group. It looked like someone else. Whether he did it deliberately or it happened in some other technical mean is something we’re trying to figure out.”

Edit: There is in fact now photographic evidence that Waltz added him to the group. Whether he was disguising himself as someone else is not clear, but Waltz should probably resign either way.

You're "supposed" to believe things based on evidence, not based on biased speculation. There IS evidence of Waltz' involvement - the invite came from his account. There are other possibilities, but it's irrational to jump to conclusions without evidence.

I don’t consider the words of Jeffry Goldberg to be evidence. All he provided was two screenshots, and none of them shows any invite. And given his history and animus towards all involved, it is not beyond him to fabricate the whole damn thing, or be a dupe of some other campaign.

Though it is possible that Waltz invited one of the worst, rabid, anti-Trump journalists, from one of the worst, rabid, anti-Trump publications to read in on a chat with the vice-president, and the highest cabinet positions, the sheer unlikelihood of it demands consideration of other possibilities.

Michael Waltz screwed up. There's no evidence of anyone else doing anything nefarious. The jounalist (Jeffrey Goldberg) did not release plans, in fact he asked to be removed from the chat group. He published his article after the planned actions were executed- he wasn't even sure it was real until he read of the events unfolding.

Waltz is telling colleagues that he has never met or talked to Goldberg, according to Fox News. Yet Goldberg is saying Waltz added him. If you've ever used Signal you'll note that when someone is added to the chat group, you're notified of who joined. So I'm supposed to believe an employee of the Trump administration added an anti-Trump architect of a few Trump hoaxes to a private chat, no one noticed, and continued to discuss war plans in from of him. How is that possible in your view?

This is not terrorism. It’s vandalism. Now repeat 3 times.

How did an anti-Trump “journalist” find himself on the Signal app, and leak the details of what was obviously a sensitive conversation? Smells to me like deep-state sabotage.

Well, just think of it as “American integration” then. Just use your little euphemisms you use on yourself and others and apply them to the United States. you’ll start to feel better.

Are you OK with Brussels annexing Ukraine? Or do you prefer euphemisms like “European integration”?

They need an emergency meeting because their meal ticket is vanishing. Fund your own research.

Why are they like this? The EU has a soy meltdown because they have to fund their own defense. It’s like an unweaned child who never learns to take care of themselves, and when finally set free to stand on their own feet, they spin around and spite their parents. They say the US is untrustworthy, when they have been living off the efforts of the American taxpayer.

Not mentioned is that there are no federal domestic terrorism laws, but the FBI have successfully prosecuted many arson and vandalism attacks as acts of domestic terrorism, which makes the sentencing worse. The FBI defines domestic terrorism as, "Violent, criminal acts committed by individuals and/or groups to further ideological goals stemming from domestic influences, such as those of a political, religious, social, racial, or environmental nature."

There is a Tesla Takedown Movement, with the demand “Sell Your Teslas. Dump Your Stock. Stop Musk Now.” According to the website, “Hurting Tesla is stopping Musk. Stopping Musk will help save lives and our democracy.”

There is also an online map called DOGEQUEST, referencing the government agency, and it doxxes Tesla Owners and dealerships. The icon on the map is a Molotov cocktail.

And, again, three professors and researchers of domestic terrorism and extremism come to the exact opposite conclusion to the dismissive ones posted above.

While no one has been injured or killed by these attacks, three professors and researchers of domestic terrorism and extremism tell NPR that they consider these cases to be acts of domestic terrorism.

3 people face federal charges for Tesla attacks. Are such acts domestic terrorism?

Lastly, the swatting of pro-Trump and musk political figures could lead to death.

‘I just fell to the ground’: Some of Trump and Musk’s most public supporters targeted in a wave of swatting incidents

One can tell from the comments in this very thread that they actually believe these acts are harming Elon, and not innocent people, even fellow anti-Trumpists. For instance there was that guy carving swastikas into that Jewish guy’s cybertruck. These sorts of symbolic fantasies which lead to real-world consequences is why they lose elections.

Uh oh, must be over the target. Let’s watch them defend political violence against innocent people in the name of anti-Trumpism.

They’re not mine. But they share the same wild sentiment as you.

Ssu’s peaceful protesters.

Anti-Trump ex-FBI agent arrested while trying to flee the country. No wonder dupes fell for all their criminal grift.

Ex-FBI agent who accused agency of political bias is charged with disclosing confidential records

https://apnews.com/article/fbi-agent-arrested-c1d202f3e8e305797ed86a89d20e8f9e

Once again, their feelings are distorting the reality.

While no one has been injured or killed by these attacks, three professors and researchers of domestic terrorism and extremism tell NPR that they consider these cases to be acts of domestic terrorism.

3 people face federal charges for Tesla attacks. Are such acts domestic terrorism?

Damn, this is crazy. He just made a Democrat-leaning, anti-Trump law firm his bitch.

Trump rescinds executive order after law firm agrees to provide $40m in free services

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/mar/20/trump-rescinds-executive-order-paul-weiss

It’s already law. Yes, the DOJ concerns itself with terrorism, no matter how retarded it is. Do you guys fire-bomb Ladas to get back at Putin?

Ouch, domestic terrorism. Strong language. But if you look at pictures of these people you get a sense that mental illness is the root of their problems.

Reflect on that for a minute.

I’ll pass.

The international system is one of anarchy. States are sovereign. International rules, if you can call them that, cannot be enforced. It’s odd that we’d defended anarchy on a global scale, while fear it on any other scale, but here we are.

Fixed

Isn’t that ironic. You had to change and bold my words to your liking.

Admittedly, some have too big a forehead to rub anything in.

So, what does the name mean to you? There are your posts about denying a "social contract".

I find it a ridiculous idea. It’s neither social nor a contract.