I see and accept the point made that propaganda can employ more means than rhetoric.

Maybe something like rhetoric is intended to convince while propaganda is intended to control — NOS4A2

I Think the difference of convincing rhetoric(wether decent or indicent) from propaganda intentented rhetoric is that the former is destroyed by the right of every man to not listen to it as hobbes said as oft as reason is against a man so oft will man be against reason.While the latter propaganda has that controlling or better coercing device that can bypass that obstacle

So in its speech and writing form propaganda is best produced through rhetoric?

i.e is propaganda beneficial in its strict sense for the common good.The notion of noble lies that do cause misinformation but benefit every one ?

That favor is confined to a limited amount of people or can it also be applief for the multitude?

So Rhetoric can be decent and can be indicent and when its incident is called propaganda while when its decent its truth-telling persuasion.So if what im telling right now is based on lies is propaganda ?

So i suppose you think of Rhetoric as an art something as a "noble" persuasion while propagnada "dishonorable" pesuasion based on indecent means of achieving the end goal.In that case every persuasion based on fallacies and other similar means can be called propaganda?If we agree on such a term for propaganda i think that we are at the risk of downgrading its severity.lets say if you were trying to shoot at me and i swayed you with my words and many rhetorical devices including any lies and fallacies would you call that propaganda?.In the same way even our society is based on persusaison,persuasuion of the citizens for obeyance of the laws,for faith in society and nation etc.If this persuasion is based on lies we just call it propaganda,The goverment is supposed firstly to protect its citizens,if it does so by Noble lies we would call that propaganda and actually good propaganda?

Seeing your spiritual hipocrisy infecting this forum i decided to make an acount just so i can publicly denounce you.How do you fancy yourself spiritual when you seem to lack basic moral values .There are others in this forum that have couple of thousand posts.However as Corra said everyone is entitled to their own perception and opinions me included (Good job on bring new people to this furom)