Exciting theories on the origin of the universe Spiritual is a different ORDER than material. I can't prove its there. The material answers the HOW-it-is-so. Spiritual answers a subtle why, which I hear in music from sitar to the 3000 year old chants on youtube. There IS something fuzzy here because I'll listen to Apollo or whoever chants on youtube and it sounds half spiritual and half material. There is probably a continuum with something discreet at both ends. That's what Spinoza got wrong. He didn't believe in the material at all, at least in the empiricist sense. I don't think, nevertheless, that there is a person or 3 persons at either end of the chasm that is our continuum..