if you do not want abortions (and no one thinks they are a good thing worth getting pregnant for), if you value the unborn highly as most pregnant women do and most men do, then you should value the women who carry them and the children that they become. You cannot reasonably make them other peoples risk, consequence, fault, responsibility, problem, and also complain about how they deal with their problems. A society that does not care for the child and the mother has no standing from which to moralise about them, any more than a society that drives women into prostitution has any standing from which to moralise about prostitutes. — unenlightened
That's the point. Your thinking does not constitute an argument. I think, you think, he/she thinks, we, you they think. You need to do better than that. — tim wood
From an online dictionary: opinion: "a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge." Are you satisfied with that? How about you try something simple first: expressing yourself with neutral language?There is only opinion of these matters. — Gregory
Really? You don't see? Well, maybe you speak truly: maybe you do not see.I don't see you having any case against someone who says we can kill children until they are of the age of reason — Gregory
Can the doctor and the mother kill the child one hour after birth? — Gregory
I'm not interested in what laws have to say, nor am I interested in telling people what they can and can't do.
With that said, I have an opinion about what I, under the circumstances I have specified, perceive as immoral behavior and why. — Tzeentch
After the birth, the woman's no longer pregnant, nor is an abortion possible. Try again, but before you answer, try to understand the question: what makes a woman's pregnancy any one else's business but hers and her doctor's? — tim wood
And before you started going on a rant, all those things were taking place just fine. Why are you so angry that I'm not interested in discussing law?
It doesn't interest me. I think it has little to add to discussions of morality. If you're that adamant about it, give me a reason to reconsider. — Tzeentch
Saying you can kill them before birth but not after is completely arbitrary. — Gregory
You are a very confused individual. Whether there is any merit at all in any of your claims, it is upended by your "reasoning."Everything you can think of is opinion. It's about the best way to live in society. Abortion nowadays is like slavery in the Civil War, except worse. Same lame arguments used: "They're different" — Gregory
Please propose an appropriate test by which we may determine either that fetuses are, or are not, people.Make the case that definitely fetuses are not people. — Gregory
You have to have clear evidence they are not human in order to take their lives. — Gregory
Let's look at my question again: "what makes a woman's pregnancy any one else's business but hers and her doctor's?" If you can find a mention of law in that, please point it out to me so that I may acknowledge my error and repent in sackcloth and ashes. — tim wood
But I shall take a non-answer as your acknowledgement that nothing in your thinking supports any notion of any third persons controlling as to whether a woman may elect to have an abortion. — tim wood
...nor am I interested in telling people what they can and can't do. — Tzeentch
Nowhere did I state that people shouldn't be allowed to make immoral decisions, so I don't think I am doing any harm to anyone's autonomy. — Tzeentch
What people can and cannot do is not a part of my argument. — Tzeentch
Indeed, as so far you claim for yourself only opinion and non-interest, I infer you don't think it's anyone else's business but a woman and her doctor's - which I read as strongly pro-choice. — tim wood
I don't belong to any camp. I won't carry a label that implies I'm in favor of killing unborn children. I think it's a horrible thing. At the same time, I am not for any kind of "control", governmental or otherwise, because it would create a situation that is possibly even worse. — Tzeentch
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