@Jack Cummins it's also not clear to me (Epicurean-Spinozist by day & absurdist bluesman by night ... mostly) what you're asking in the OP.Are you looking for discussion on what past and current philosophers have stated regarding 'meaning,' 'happiness,' and 'pleasure,' or are you asking for what these terms mean in the everyday lives of any TPF poster, including philosophy novices such as myself? — universeness
:up:You have suggested that the point is moot, as developments in AI will make the point moot ... — universeness
I know the notion is quite ancient but Nietzsche conceives of 're-experiencing – consciously re-living – one's exact same life eternally' as a psychological (i.e. conative) thought-experiment, or test, of the degree which one affirmatively lives (i.e. becomes). Existentially, IMO, not a "silly" exercise at all.Eternal recurrence strikes me as rather silly. After all, one doesn't know one is a recurrence — Banno
:100:Israel has been beating a dog for years and now wants to retaliate because it was bitten. I'm quite certain many now feel justified to kill the dog, looking only at the bite, but any sane person realises that's not the real problem here. — Benkei
Maybe not. Why would we rationally want that?Of course modern AI is becoming a necessary tool in neuroscientific experiments, but maybe there is a limit to the extent to which we want AI's to understand us better than we understand ourselves? — wonderer1
:up:A passive-aggressive front allows you to hide behind the pretence of innocence, even victimhood. Meh. I think your arguments are just poor. — Banno
:roll:Bottom line The learned belief system for democracy with liberty is- democracy is rule by reason and all citizens need education for good reasoning. — Athena
I am not (consciously) "anthropocentric" at all.I agree with you that I am far more anthropocentric than you are. — universeness
I'm also not "misanthropic" at all.I think by now, you know that I celebrate that difference between us, and I would love to convince you to be less misanthropic than I think you are.
FWIW, I found your meaning perfectly clear. :up:Individually, we have done surprisingly well at letting the law or God carry out our vengeance. In groups, we have much less self-control; in mobs, none at all. — Vera Mont
Reread the preceding two-thirds of the sentence in question in order to grok the last third.I just do not understand how you arrive at that. — universeness
We "create meaning and purpose" for ourselves, that's all we "know" – which is merely parochial and anthropocentric – so big whup! Evidently, the universe doesn't care one wit. Copernicus' principle is consistent with Zapffe-Camus' absurd. On a cosmic scale, universeness, the whole of our quarter-milluon year young species is infinitesmal in significance (though that might change ever so slightly with the advent of our "last invention": AGI—>ASI). H. sapiens is only a few footprints in a cosmic surf which postbiomorphs might 'rediscover' as an anomalous fossil worthy of study. Apparently you've repeatedly ignored my stated position: We – all human civilizations – are just a cocoon, mate, not the butterfly. Denial of our manifest cosmic insignificance is, to my mind, religious. :sparkle: :pray: :eyes:I assumed, that you have previously agreed, that humans create meaning and purpose in ways that no other existent we know of, can or does. Do you disagree with that?
It was just fine without human beings during the 13.8 billion years prior to a quarter million years ago so I suspect – consistent with the mediocrity principle – that the universe would be neither worse nor better off without us.How would you respond to a poll question like:
Ignoring any bias from being one, do you think the universe would be a better place without humans? — universeness
I'm referring toI am not sure which mammals you are referring to with 'other higher mammals' ...
Your proposed "optimistic technopaganism", Bret, seems suitable for maximizing (A) & (B) – far more completely than any human religious tradition or mystical practice ever has – at the expense of minimizing / eliminating (C). Ramification of bio-physical law: paths (A & B) of least effort / action, especially when facilitated-amplified by orders of magnitude (re: OP's 'ubiquitious, continuous cognitive automation'), trump any path (C) of more-than-least effort / action; in other words, a species-wide cyber-lobotomy. :eyes:(A) taking customary questions and/or answers for granted (i.e. living somnambulantly)
(B) faith in miraculous answers which we do not know how to question (i.e. living religiously)
(C) contemplating fundamental questions which we do not know how to answer (i.e. living philosophically)
So some impersonal entity, not me (i.e. not mine-ness), "gets reincarnated"? If that's the case, then I need not care about "the soul" and live as I like (maybe finding a purely immanent, this-worldly basis by which to survive and thrive in the here and now). :fire:... it is the soul that gets reincarnated; that thoughts, feelings, the body are not the self. — baker
How collectivist of you ... :mask:... if we are to survive as a species. — NOS4A2
:up:Individually, we have done surprisingly well at letting the law or God carry out our vengeance. In groups, we have much less self-control; in mobs, none at all. — Vera Mont
:fire:... the interpretation of the pagan philosophers who acknowledged that there was but one God [Brahman, Dao, Void, Substance] and considered the many gods of traditional religion to be aspects [maya, ten thousand things, atoms, modes] of the one God. — Ciceronianus
No doubt, they'd rather burn down the American Republic than share it with the descendants of those whom their ancestors had once murderously stole it from and savagely enslaved in order to build it. A reckoning – it's only a matter of time. I vividly recall driving past a billboard on a rural Tennessee stretch of US Interstate in the summer of 2016 that read: "Make America White Again". Chilling, not surprising. And the trend lines since, according to (e.g.) the FBI's hate crimes / domestic terrorism statistics and exploding gun-ammunition sales, have not been encouraging ...The overweight undereducated white men are terrified of losing their ascendancy; many white people are afraid of becoming submerged in a population of darker hues; many urban people are afraid of replacement by automated modern industry; many rural people are afraid of becoming outmoded, irrelevant. Any far-right figurehead who assures them that they are important, valued, worthy of ruling the world the way they imagine they used to, will be followed. — Vera Mont
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