Comments

  • Emergence
    It's a forecast, not a prediction, like AGI itself. I'm just as cynical about news articles except when they cite the sources of the scientific studies they are summarizing. I'm not at all cynical, however, about accelerating climate change due to anthropogenic global warming. Here's an article published today that's clearly trying to avoid being "alarmist" and yet the implications are obvious (you can check out the sources cited therein for yourself):

    https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/05/world/ocean-surface-temperature-heat-record-climate-intl/index.html
  • Name for a school of thought regarding religious diversity?
    Is there a name for the doctrine which claims that all religions are epistemically/veridically disjunct from each other?Hallucinogen
    Mythology (i.e. cults, folklores).
  • Emergence
    1. Any exemplar, reliable scientific studies you know of that claim this as fact?universeness
    Plenty. This article cites some of them:
    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/09/climate/climate-change-report-ipcc-un.html
  • Mythopoeic Thought: The root of Greek philosophy.
    Kazantzakisjavi2541997
    Yeah, good stuff! :up:
  • Will Science Eventually Replace Religion?
    I’m angry at stupidity because it leads to ignorance and ignorance leads to evil.invicta
    To paraphrase G.K. Chesterton: Of course, not all believers are stupid but almost all the stupid people I've ever met are believers.

    There are those" seems to be covertly pointing at yours truly.
    — Gnomon

    Indeed.

    Nowhere have I accused you of new ageism, nor of "science bashing"

    The most I have "accused" (your word) you of is not being able to either follow or present a clear argument.

    Despite the faux footnotes.
    Banno
    :up:
  • "I am that I am"
    In other words ... Deus, sive natura :fire: (contra "Cogito, ergo sum"; contra Exodus 3:14; contra 'transcendent X-of-the-gaps').
  • Emergence
    Some more comments on your comments ...

    1. The oceans are already too warm to reverse catastrophic climate change. AGI will triage the global population centers so that 1 in 4 (2bn) people might survive to the end of the next century.

    2. 'Planetary colonization' (e.g. megaengineering, terraforming) does not make economic, engineering or scientific sense IMO. No "stepping stones", my friend, just dispersion of Earth's species as a hedge against terrestrial extinction risks. And because of hard radiation (e.g. cosmic rays) and astronomical transit durations, 'deep space exploration' is only feasible for (tinier-the-better) intelligent machines.

    4. Babylon 5?! :rofl: (sorry) Nothing remotely to do with the transcension hypothesis.

    5. :up:

    6. "Global efforts?" Never were, never will be. And no need for that: AGI —> ASI will drive the big blue bus out of the ditch we're stuck in despite our fractious human nature. No doubt, over the next century or so, 3 out of 4 (6bn) of us will be left behind in the ditch so that the rest of our biological descendents can survive (predominantly due to the efforts of our machine descendents 'herding a billion cats').
  • Emergence
    :chin: Well ...

    1. I suspect runaway climate change will balkanize the globe even more than it is today because the capacities for mitigating the catastrophic 'warming' effects are now and will be even more so unevenly distributed (even when AGI comes online). In the best case scenarios, however, I agree with your "cradle to grave" techno-"secularism" – what I imagine as automated post-scarcity societies (APS).

    2. I imagine that in about fifty years we will start 'spreading out' in earnest across the inner solar system, mostly orbital, moon & asteroid habitats rather than planetary 'colonies'.

    3. Okay (re: APS).

    4. Assuming that "the human identity" is a manifestation of the human condition. Thus, I imagine as technosciences, extraterresrial habitation & AGI —> ASI accelerate the disappearance of the current human condition, "human identity" also will disappear. (Re: posthumanity (e.g. body-mods & brain-augments for living in space; AI-mediated-hiveminds; orga-mecha mergers, etc) —> transcension)

    5. I predict that by the end of this century our (AGI-controlled) space probes will discover robust exo-biomes and thriving xeno-species beneath the ice carapaces of a number of Jupiter's & Saturn's moons. By then, however, ASI will determine how best to protect (enhance) terrestrial life from (by) extraterrestrial and artificial life-forms.

    6. Three natural mass extinction-events come to mind which could affect the entire inner solar system (now and always): (A) gamma ray bursts, (B) planetary colliding coronal mass ejections (re: the Carrington event) and (C) micro-singularities. A non-terrestrial diaspora, of course, increases the likelihood of our species surviving extinction events but in no way guarantees it.
  • TPF Quote Cabinet
    The mind is its own place and in it self can make a Heav’n of Hell, a Hell of Heav’n. — John Milton, Paradise Lost

    The inhabitants of the earth are of two sorts: those with brains, but no religion, and those with religion, but no brains. — Abu al-Ala al-Ma'arri, pessimistic freethinker, d.1057 CE
  • The value of conditional oughts in defining moral systems
    Cooperation being a stepping stone to a goal (wellbeing or flourishing), not the goal itself.Tom Storm
    :up:
  • The value of conditional oughts in defining moral systems
    Others have beat me to the punch, sir. I can't improve on their remarks in addition to @Banno's:

    ... how the idea that morality is about solving cooperative problems can actually help in addressing the moral case for supporting or denying support to the Ukrainians against the Russians.neomac
    Your ideal of well-informed, rational people with shared goals and ideas is nowhere to be found.Fooloso4
    What is the relationship between morality and cooperative strategies? They are not, as you assume, one and the same. Cooperative strategies to achieve immoral goals are immoral cooperative strategies.

    Deontology is not "the traditional perspective" but one traditional perspective. There are others.
    Fooloso4
  • Emergence
    :up:

    Btw, we just differ over what constitutes an 'optimistic' view of our automated (IMO, prospective "post-scarcity") future. In a nutshell, anthropocentric you: "super-humanity" with exponentially more biophysical-metacognitive options than our current human condition affords us; de-anthropo-centric me: "post-humanity" with exponentially fewer biophysical-metacognitive defects than our current human condition constrains us with.

    Or in (visionary) "science fiction" terms – my view is more "Starchild-Monolith" (or "Culture Minds") and your view is more "United Federation of Planets-Star Fleet", no? :nerd:
  • Emergence
    :sweat: Do you really want hundreds of more 'optimistic' posts?! Anyway, ty. :up:
  • Emergence
    Maybe I'm misreading your remark, but I haven't opined that "AI development" (i.e. AGI) is a "threat". IMO, it's human civilization with its shiny new tools (e.g. intelligent, thermonuclear and/or nano-technological), however, that threatens human existence in the near-term.
  • Emergence
    :clap: :cool: Enjoy!

    I'll give this video a look eventually. Thanks!
  • The nature of man…inherently good or bad?
    Apparently, the OP's author fails to recognize his own biases in the premises of his question and thereby misunderstands its implications even when pointed out to him repeatedly.
  • The Ethics of Burdening Others in the Name of Personal Growth: When is it Justified?
    We're animals, get over it. Few are capable of deliberately defying our deep programmiing by not proceating; some have no opportunity to breed, and others are physiologically incapable. That leaves the vast majority of the locquaciously horny human herd. After all, species imperatives necessarily constrain organisms' ideals. H. sapiens will not extinguish itself by "anti-natalism", not when quite a few other self-inflicted and potential exogamous extinction events are very much live prospects. Just look at the fossil record, schop – before you know it, we'll be somebody else's dinosaurs and dodo birds. :smirk:
  • Replacing matter as fundamental: does it change anything?
    Currently not understanding exactly how matter and energy interact to create a subjective experience does not negate the observed fact that matter and energy can interact to make a subjective experience.Philosophim
    :100:
  • The nature of man…inherently good or bad?
    Sound reasoning spits into the dogmatic ocean, but still ... :clap: :fire:
  • The nature of man…inherently good or bad?
    The apex of creation was followed by “evolutionary scale” if you two bothered to read that paragraph properly. No theological assumptions granted there.invicta
    :ok: Riiiiight, the whole thread failed "to read that paragraph properly". The phrase "evolutionary scale" doesn't have anything to do with natural selection since there is no telos at work in nature. Anyway, invicta, I take your lack of response to my post as your concession to the points made by me and the others cited there. :smirk:
  • Replacing matter as fundamental: does it change anything?
    The constants of nature are ratios or balances. So they are “fundamental numbers” that emerge from processes in opposition.

    The take home is that physics sounds reductionist to most ears, but it is actually structuralist in its metaphysics.

    Reality is neither fundsmentally classical, nor even quantum. These are just the two matched limit state descriptions ...
    apokrisis
    :fire: :100:
  • The nature of man…inherently good or bad?
    ... the role of man as the apex of creation ...invicta
    'Man as apex-predator', yeah okay. No amount of "creationist" dogma, however, changes the fact that the human genome is more than 96% identical with the chimpanzee genome. We're just bald, locquacious (i.e. proselytizing, sermonizing, bloviating) primates in the animal kingdom. Oh yeah, our uniquely distinguishing superpower is that we're a knowledge-creating species; however, it's the knowledge, not us human primates, which is "separate and above" the animal kingdom. Human history "red in tooth and claw" provides the most graphic and repetitious testimony that humans are beasts not angels, inseparable from the animal kingdom, not "above" it. Also, Plato's Euthyphro is instructive as a cautionary tale about unsound reasoning from supernatural premises about "good and bad". :monkey:

    I think humans are clever animals who use language to manage their environment. I see no reason to theologize humans or utilize categories like 'apex of creation...'Tom Storm
    :up: :up:

    :halo:

    We don't have an "animalistic side" -- we are all animal--animals descended from animals.

    Our best selves may have flourished when we were wandering hunter-gatherers. Being civilized for several thousand years doesn't seem to have civilized us all that much.
    BC
    :fire:

    :up:
  • On order, logic, the mind and reality.
    Are you saying that these are examples of the 'ruses or delusions' by which humans deny their own inevitable decay?Wayfarer
    Just the opposite – what in the opening sentence of my last post isn't clear ...
    ... my use of [Buddhist ideas] as a metaphor from outside of the scientific worldview (re: entropy)?180 Proof

    Now re-read the first paragraph in my post. :roll:

    https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/804140

    The first paragraph is about 'the human mind' and how (my) scientific interpretation has affinities with (my) interpretation of some (non-scientific) 'Buddhist ideas'. The second paragraph is about the function philosophy (i.e. wisdom-seeking) can serve in reducing 'the human mind's' self-inflicted, immiserating handicaps.

    So the second paragraph answers your first "to what end?" question and the first paragraph answers your second "these (Buddhist ideas) examples" question. If that isn't clear enough for you, Wayfarer, then we'll just have to go on talking past each other like we usually do.
  • On order, logic, the mind and reality.
    To what end, though?Wayfarer
    Are you asking about (a) Buddhist tradition or my use of it as a metaphor from outside of the scientific worldview (re: entropy)? If the latter, consider my post again, especially the second paragraph:

    https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/804140

    All you're saying wisdom consists of is resigning yourself to the inevitable natural fact of death and decay, isn't it?
    That's quite uncharitable ... in light of what I wrote (also follow the embedded link):
    ... striving to reduce foolery (& stupidity) seeks to align expectations with reality as an adaptive habit ...180 Proof
    is what I am "saying wisdom consists of".
  • The nature of man…inherently good or bad?
    ... as to man’s nature are we inherently bad or good ? Or perhaps we are both ?invicta
    Neither. I think as a species we are inherently deluded – an organic alchemy of cognitive biases, maladaptive habits & akrasia – homo insapiens. 'Moral ramifications', I suppose, are a fallout from both our individual and collective struggles with – for and against – our delusions.
  • On order, logic, the mind and reality.
    :cool: Thanks.

    Would you consider the possibility that this 'inherent disorder' is what is designated by 'avidya' (ignorance) in Buddhist and Hindu philosophy?Wayfarer
    No. More so: anicca-anatta.

    And that in those schools of traditional philosophy, it is precisely detachment from the imperatives of nature that provides the pathway to liberation (mokṣa, Nirvāṇa)?
    Is that so? Well, in other related dharmic traditions, I understand that it is 'detachment from the psychological habit of permanence' (e.g. anicca-anatta) that facilitates 'liberation'.

    Whereas the identification with 'what decays and passes away' (in their terms) binds to the 'wheel of saṃsāra' (detachment from same being the aim of 'daily spiritual practice').
    You would know better than I, Wayfarer. I only raised 'Buddhism' as a speculative resemblance to, or psychological recognition of, to the fact of entropy – inherent disorder-ing – and the implications of denying, or ignoring, it (i.e. avidya).
  • Will Science Eventually Replace Religion?
    In the 20th century, Quantum physics undermined some of the basic assumptions of Classical Physics, by discovering that Nature does not present absolute Truth, but statistical Uncertainty.Gnomon
    Sorry but :rofl: ...
  • Consciousness - Fundamental or Emergent Model
    IMO, "system" gets us nowhere and only loops back (no pun intended) to the "brain-hardware / mind-software / IPO" metaphor that obfuscates much more than it elucidates.
  • On order, logic, the mind and reality.
    My take on these ideas are similiar, Benj, but put differently, I think more naturalistically, as follows:

    The human mind belongs to a natural system (i.e. the nested ecologies-constrained human body) which in turn is inseparable from the natural world that is constrained by constitutive, law-like regularities, or structural processes. Entropy is one of the natural world's structural processes and inexorable senescence (as well as temporality) of the human mind is a manifestation of entropy. Psychopathologies and cognitive biases are as well. One implication of this, I think, is that, to the degree the human mind denies its own structural process of entropy (i.e. increasing disorder aka "aging" ... impermanence) via various ruses, diversions, delusions, etc, the human mind frustrates, even afflicts, itself (à la Buddhism's "anicca", "anatta", "dukkha-karma", no?)

    NB: As I see it, 'the business of philosophy' is primarily to reflectively discipline the human mind with study, dialectical engagement and praxis in order to gradually unlearn the maladaptive habit of 'denying the human mind's inherent disorder' while learning to be antifragile because of this fact. This striving to reduce foolery (& stupidity) seeks to align expectations with reality as an adaptive habit, or, to use P. Hadot's phrase, as a daily spiritual practice.
  • Replacing matter as fundamental: does it change anything?
    The idea of "fundamental substance" is a metaphysical one, not a scientific one. It's a way of thinking, not a matter of fact.T Clark
    :100:

    As the OP makes clear, @Eugen is incorrigibly confused on this point.
  • A potential solution to the hard problem
    The neurology literature is full of examples of the disassociation of the conscious self from the awareness, experience and perception of the organism, blind sight is merely one example.prothero
    :up: