Comments

  • On religion and suffering
    Explain in what way (e.g.) a fatal birth defect is "meaningful".
  • On religion and suffering
    Never once has a human being witnessed meaninglessnessAstrophel
    This statement doesn't make sense (e.g. birth defects, natural disasters, mass murders, vague utterances, discursive nonsense, random events ... are instances of "meaninglessness").
  • On religion and suffering
    If life is not a struggle with god[death]...Astrophel
    ... then its not "life".

    Btw, why do you assume being human "means" anything at all?
  • Donald Trump (All General Trump Conversations Here)
    Yeah, and decadent cynics bleated like that about Nero too.
  • Why Philosophy?
    Apologies for not reading the entire thread before responding ...

    I often wonder, what makes a person interested in philosophy?Rob J Kennedy
    My 'philosophical interest' was/is rooted in everyday encounters with stupidity (i.e. maladaptive, incorrigible behavior) in all of its insidious forms as both an enabler of and constraint on practice (or agency). Though I've always had strong affinities with Zapffean-Camusian absurdism, more than anything else I'm a fallibilistic Epicurean-Spinozist (i.e. committed to a critical form of anti-supernaturalism).

    What is it about them that draws them to read, study and discuss philosophy?
    In practice, IME philosophy is an infinite game (i.e. fractal-like maze, not 'solvable' labyrinth) one falls into and cannot / doesn't want to escape from (unless you're a fly named "Ludwig" trapped in his own flybottle). :smirk:

    Usually they are people who prefer to be alone than constantly around others.
    Yes. Solitaire ...

    They are people who care about politics and the arts.
    ... et Solidaire. Yes.

    They are writers.
    Yes ... sentences cage me.

    They are introspective and educated.
    Yes ... very bookish.

    They want the world changed ...
    Yes ... and themselves.
  • In Support of Western Supremacy, Nationalism, and Imperialism.
    So, ethics, under your view, is a personal habit?Bob Ross
    Insofar as "personal habits" – in the context of my previous post – specifically means virtues, then I think so.

    Could you give an example where the "community policy" is not underpinned by "interpersonal conduct" 
    Two policies come to mind: retributive justice (i.e. proportional punishment) & distributive justice (i.e. social welfare). Neither policy is based on how individuals ought to treat each other or (non-reciprocally) conduct themselves.

    ... (so that I can understand where you are coming from)
    Again, I refer you to this old post (esp. 2nd para.)...
    https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/857773
  • Oizys’ Beautiful Garden
    ... the original purpose of Philosophy: to give practical wisdom that every man—even the blindest and poorest—could understand and apply to their lives to better themselves.Bob Ross
    :fire: :up:

    Some of my own 'aphorisms' ...

    (2023)
    https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/851181

    (2025)
    https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/959723
  • TPF Quote Cabinet
    Addendum to
    https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/851181

    Bemusings 2 ...
    Death merely randomizes memories & awareness.
    All that we are and have ever built are, at most (and forever!), sand castles in the surf.
    Since existence is the sky, universes are nothing but the weather.
    Origin of the universe? = Edge of the Earth?
    What question is not begged (is not fallaciously answered) by "a mystery"?

    How is anything explained by or justified with "a mystery"?

    If 'God is the ultimate mystery', then a godly (i.e. inexplicable and unjustified)
    world is indistinguishable from a godless world, no?
    You escape from reality via fantasy but we can escape from fantasy via ecstasy.
    Pray to the presence ...
    meditate on the nonsense ...
    or contemplate the absence.
    As a life-commitment, you can only love the world (group think) or only love god (that thinks for you) or only love wisdom (learning to think for yourself even against yourself).
    Not meeting the burden of proof only means the claim at issue remains unproven and not that it is false. For this reason alone a thinker ought to accept the burden of proving that theism is not true.
    There is no god but Death and Sleep is her prophet.
    ... And therefore we have metaphysics ('order, cosmos') in order not to howl in despair at the real (disorder, chaos).
    ... Branes to Black Holes to Brains to Brains to Black Holes to Branes ...
    There are no antirealists in foxholes.
    Usually the beautiful tend to be boring, the flawed on occasion more interesting, and yet the beautifully flawed are always irresistible.
    Every professional liar knows that facts are never as persuasive as stories.
    Astronauts went where all religions call 'the heavens' and discovered two things which had impressed me as a child: (1) they saw no God, no gods, no angels, no souls and (2) they saw that the Earth is round, not flat. What's impressed me even more ever since is that not one of the world's great religions have ever sent their own astronaut-priests into 'the heavens' to find out the truth for themselves.
    As weak as gravity that orders the universe, reason orders minds which dis/order our world.
    Sophia says ...
    'Your god isn't even a providential being who can do anything for you. He's nothing but that hole in your bucket – nonbeing.'
    I'm not religious or a trumper, so I don't discuss American politics any more – I'm too literate historically, culturally and scientifically for that.

    (To be continued ...)
  • Donald Trump (All General Trump Conversations Here)
    10Jan25

    It's official:

    DJT, Convicted Felon-in-Chief

    https://www.wsj.com/us-news/law/trump-sentencing-hush-money-new-york-9f9282bc

    Sometime in the next ten days the US DoJ, at the very least, should release the partial (or complete) Special Counsel's Report on DJT's January 6 Insurrection Indictment Case. The US AG should also release the Special Counsel's Report on DJT's Stolen National Security Documents and Obstruction of Justice Indictment Case and then receive an unconditional pardon from POTUS. History is watching, Mr Biden. TBD.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2025/01/09/trump-special-counsel-report-federal-appeals-smith/77549818007/
  • A Deist Creation Myth
    Shameless and insipid non sequiturs. Good job, lil troll. :clap:
  • Mythology, Religion, Anthopology and Science: What Makes Sense, or not, Philosophically?
    Logos alone ...Jack Cummins
    I didn't say anything about "logos alone".

    The reason why we need[practice] philosophy is to disentangle the two, because they can get muddled.
    Yes, analytically. We also ought to strive to live according to logos over above mythos in order to flourish (according to e.g. Laozi ... Heraclitus, Epicurus, Epictetus ... Spinoza ... Peirce-Dewey, Zapffe, Camus, C. Rosset ...)
  • What Are You Watching Right Now?
    6Jan2025 :mask:

    "In your ruins I find shelter."
    ~Samuel Beckett, from letter to Emil Cioran
  • Mythology, Religion, Anthopology and Science: What Makes Sense, or not, Philosophically?
    Do you agree or disagree that we as individuals, communities and as a civilization should outgrow – overcome (as Nietzsche says) – evidence-free stories (mythos) by striving to live according to evidence-based stories (logos)? If you agree then, what you suggest about "the significance of myths" is hyperbolic at best. However, if you disagree, Jack, tell me (us) why philosophy matters.
  • In Support of Western Supremacy, Nationalism, and Imperialism.
    Isn't this "interpersonal conduct" that you are referring to underpin the "community policy"?Bob Ross
    Not necessarily.

    Or are they completely disparate areas of ethics?
    Yes. Afaik, personal habits (ethos) are normative and institutional priorities (polis) are applications of norms to public conflicts (or issues) which are not limited to or by those norms.
  • A Deist Creation Myth
    A cursory search for what the Big Bang is shows that it actually is the beginning of the universe.Brendan Golledge
    "Cursory searches" are more often too simplicistic (lazy) and misleading, especially in modern physical sciences, than deliberate study. Given the extent of current astrophysical evidence, your claim doesn't make any sense scientifically, and therefore metaphysically (as categorical generalizations, or (tentative?) synopsis, of the 'absolute presuppositions' of current physical sciences).

    ... the transcendent exists in the form of mathematics. Math appears to exist independently of matter and time.
    Reification fallacy (à la Platonic forms, Aristotlean essences). "Math" concerns abstract objects structures & patterns and only an infinitesmal fraction of them are computationally possible to instantiate in (human) discursive-cognitive practices.

    So I repeat the question:
    Please explain why do you assume that a so-called (un-knowable, ubiquitously nonevident) "Deity" can be "the uncaused cause of all other causes-effects" and yet also assume that the (know-able, inescapably evident) universe itself cannot be "the uncaused cause of all other causes-effects".180 Proof
    @Gnomon :roll:
  • Mythology, Religion, Anthopology and Science: What Makes Sense, or not, Philosophically?
    all the events in life can be seen as the enfoldment of mythic possibilities.Jack Cummins
    What do you mean by this? (re: archetypal psychology à la James Hillman ... C.G. Jung ... Joseph Campbell ... :sparkle: )

    Hegel sees history as a realisation of potential[destiny].
    Ex post facto teleological historicism (i.e. eschatological rationalization) aka the old Crusaders' "Deus vult!" :pray: :eyes:
  • In Support of Western Supremacy, Nationalism, and Imperialism.
    Interesting: so it sounds like you are a bit of an Aristotelian too.Bob Ross
    In what way do you think so?

    How would you define Justice?
    :chin:
    https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/955844

    Do you see any solution to the A and B conceptions of Justice that I noted?
    I don't. Your concept concerns 'what persons deserve' 'rights' or 'needs' but by justice I understand 'nonzero sum conflict resolution' (i.e. fairness) as a community policy priority / standard.

    Wouldn't you agree, that justice has a normative and applied aspect? There is what is just ideally (which is normative ethics), and there is what can be applied in practical law (which is applied ethics)---no?
    No. The latter pertains to community policy whereas the former pertains to interpersonal conduct. "Justice" is a policy priority, not a habit / rule of conduct.

    Also, why would "macro top-down" justice require consequentialism?
    I don't understand what you mean.
  • A Deist Creation Myth
    Addendum to
    https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/954898

    @Brendan Golledge

    Please explain why do you assume that a so-called (un-knowable, ubiquitously nonevident) "Deity" can be "the uncaused cause of all other causes-effects" and yet also assume that the (know-able, inescapably evident) universe itself cannot be "the uncaused cause of all other causes-effects". :chin:

    The 13th century Cosmological Argument, making a distinction between Necessity and Contingency, was scientifically supported by the Big Bang theory.Gnomon
    False.

    Actually, your statement is not even wrong. :roll:

    Multiverse Theory[MWI of QM], which is just as un-falsifiable as the God Theory[mythology]
    Incorrigible nonsense. :zip:

    knowable Cosmos* is finite
    This idealist (antirealist)-solipsist-creationist (fabulist) assumption is both incoherent and factually incorrect: as aspects of nature, all that we (can) know cannot exhaust, or encompass, the whole of nature. To wit: based on current astrophysics, the observable cosmos is only a finite region of an exponentially larger, unobservable – i.e. we know that light from over the Hubble horizon (13.8 billion light years (re: CMBR) has not had m o r e than 13.8 billion years to reach terrestrial instruments – ergo in-de-finite (possibly infinite) cosmos. Pay attention, Gnomon: the "BB" is as much the "beginning of the universe" as the South Pole is the edge of the Earth. :smirk:
  • How can one know the ultimate truth about reality?
    We are clearly in bodies. And it is because we are in bodies that we have a reality.Questioner
    – ergo reality is necessarily more-than-subjective.
  • How can one know the ultimate truth about reality?
    So you're a 'disembodied subject'?

    We're just 'disembodied subjects'?

    What "demon"?

    :up:

    :up: :up:
  • Ethical Androids (Truly)
    ... ethical androids (i.e. androids with substantial moral beliefs [habits (i.e. priorities-constaints])ToothyMaw
    I.e. AGI (neural network (not program)) that learns (to mimic?) empathy, eusociality, ecology and nonzero sum conflict resolution (e.g. fairness) for discursive practices and kinetic relationships with other moral agents¹/patients²...

    Okay, maybe; but why would any for-profit corporation or military organization ever build an "ethical android" that would be useless as either a slave or a killer?

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_agency [1]

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_patienthood [2]

    :nerd: :up:
  • Mythology, Religion, Anthopology and Science: What Makes Sense, or not, Philosophically?
    I am of the view that inner as opposed to outer, objective aspects of 'reality' are important here in the tradition of human understanding. Science, similarly to religion may be embedded in mythic understanding. What do you think, especially in relation to the concept of myth?.Jack Cummins
    A topic-adjacent interview you might find interesting:

    Re: the relevance / significance today of (German) Idealism?

    https://philosophynow.org/issues/165/Robert_Stern
  • I know the advancement of AI is good, but it's ruined myself and out look on things
    Addendum to
    https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/947477

    You'll know AGI is here when the exercise of creating tasks that are easy for regular humans but hard for AI becomes simply impossible. — François Chollet, author of ARC-AGI and scientist in Google's artificial intelligence unit
    https://www.zdnet.com/article/openais-o3-isnt-agi-yet-but-it-just-did-something-no-other-ai-has-done/

    :nerd:
  • The Blind Spot of Science and the Neglect of Lived Experience
    :up: :up:

    He does not even attempt to answer, but rather just ignores the question.
    No doubt Woo-farer doesn't even understand the question. :smirk:
  • What is the (true) meaning of beauty?
    Welcome to TPF!

    Consider the following post from a (2022) thread On the beautiful and sublime

    https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/722906

    also a (2019) post from a thread The Goal of Art

    https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/345235
  • In Support of Western Supremacy, Nationalism, and Imperialism.
    Are you saying my thought experiment was invalid (on grounds of some sort of conflation)?Bob Ross
    Yes, because, as any experienced attorney or judge will attest to: "justice" is not normative (re: micro bottom-up –> well-being (i.e. utilitarian)) as you seem to conceive of it, Bob; in a naturalistic moral framework¹, "justice" is applied (re: macro top-down –> nonzero sum conflict resolution (i.e. consequential)).

    (2023) first 2 sentences ...
    https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/857773 [1]
  • The Blind Spot of Science and the Neglect of Lived Experience
    An excerpt from p.14 ...
    The notion of a "blind spot of science" is, at best, a worn-out, old romanticist caricature or otherwise, worse, akin to a polemical categorical mistake: science no more engages in (explicit) philosophy or mysticism / subjectivism than jack-hammers are used instead of chainsaws to cut down trees; in fact, it's the best tool(kit) humanity has ever devised insofar as natural science is the attempt to (abductively, fallibilistically) solve more-than-subjective problems, which is a feature, IME, and not a bug (i.e. "blind spot").180 Proof
  • Mythology, Religion, Anthopology and Science: What Makes Sense, or not, Philosophically?
    [W]hat kind of fool thinks they only are alive and the world is dead?unenlightened
    Well, I'm the kind of fool who thinks the world is undead: a shambling zombie that appears to be moving inexorable towards oblivion as every part(icle) of the cosmic corpse (including maggots like us) burns out, rots, decomposes, cools ... Ask any virus (or Schrödinger's Cat) – for (late) moderns "dead" & "alive" are indistinguishable. :smirk:
  • In Support of Western Supremacy, Nationalism, and Imperialism.
    Fyi – I've not read this thread but, fwiw ...

    You & co seem to be conflating normative ethics (re: interpersonal harms) with applied ethics (re: structural/policy injustices), Bob. Consider this post reply to @Leontiskos from the thread The Breadth of the Moral Sphere
    https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/899132
  • Mythology, Religion, Anthopology and Science: What Makes Sense, or not, Philosophically?
    I enjoy mythic fiction, including Marion Zimmer Bradley and Bernard Cornwell. Being half Irish by descent, I am particularly interested in Celtic and British legends, including those in the Magbinon, Arthur and those surrounding Glastonbury. Tolkien also presents a fascinating journey into the mythic imagination.Jack Cummins
    :nerd: :100: :sparkle:
  • What Are You Watching Right Now?
    22Jan69

    Thanks for Billy, George! :up:

    "You're in the group!" :cool:
  • What is meant by the universe being non locally real?
    What is meant by the universe being non locally real?Darkneos
    Suppose spacetime is fundamentally entangled ...
  • Mythology, Religion, Anthopology and Science: What Makes Sense, or not, Philosophically?
    [Religions] also have associated metaphysics that guide people's understanding of the universe ...T Clark
    I think rational-pragmatic philosophies aspire to much more than 'superstitiously living according to the folk stories of miracles and magic' canonized by religions (& cults).

    @Jack Cummins
  • Mythology, Religion, Anthopology and Science: What Makes Sense, or not, Philosophically?
    Apologies if the following rambles too far off-topic ...

    An excerpt of a post from a (2022) thread The Philosopher will not find God
    Recognizing that "God" does not explain anything (re: mythos) is what motivated the Presocratic proto-scientists (physiologoi) in Ionia & Elea to speculate on rational explanations (logos) for nature (phusis) and our minds (nous).180 Proof

    In other words, it seems g/G is just a primitive – atavistic – personification of (an) unknowable-inexplicable power(s), likely beginning as animism (i.e. the world is enchanted aka "magical thinking"). Later Mythos had been invented to ethno-narratively memorialize such personified – anthropomorphized – power(s) by and around which (the) cultus formed and then, iirc, medieval scholars had called "religion" (from religare). For two and half millennia the Western philosophical tradition has striven to exorcize, or domesticate (deflate), ineliminable Mythos (i.e. narrative g/G-of-the-gaps pathos) by making explicit – reflectively meditating on – (its) Logos. :fire:

    (2020) An excerpt of a post from your thread What is the purpose of dreaming and what do dreams tell us?
    Logos confronting, or reflecting on, mythos (but within the hermeneutical context of mythos) was once the grounds for doing philosophy and, I think, still is; otherwise, Jack, why bother?180 Proof

    Also, Jack, from your (2021) thread To What Extent Does Philosophy Replace Religion For Explanations and Meaning?
    https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/614799
  • A Deist Creation Myth

    We wanted to fix what was wrong with Deism, ... by determining why it failed. — Gnomon
    Afaik, deism is just 'the god of theism' on its day off (or on vacation), and so, if the latter is a fiction (e.g. ontologically separate – "transcendent" – from existence aka "nonexistent"), then the former must also be fictional. :chin:

    Alternatively, by analogy, just as "the big bang" is a (measureable by current physics) twist in a Möbius-like loop process that marks only a (ca.13.8 billion year old) developmental change to the latest version of the universe and not "the beginning" (à la Hartle-Hawking), pandeists speculate that 'the current phase – observable, explicable nature – in the eternal cycle of existence (à la Laozi, Epicurus, Spinoza, Nietzsche) is only an undead-like decaying corpse of (the) deity that will reincarnate and subsequently destroy itself (à la P. Mainländer) and then reincarnate again infinitely many times (à la the multiverse and/or R. Penrose's conformal cyclical cosmos). Imo, this myth of ontological immanence is much less unintelligible (i.e. question-begging, evidence-free, nihilistic) than typical transcendence – dualist / supernaturalist – myths, and thereby more rational. :fire:
  • Epistemology of UFOs

    I think the UFO/alien folks are looking for meaning beyond the mundane.schopenhauer1
    Yes, that's why I wrote
    "UFOs" = angels & ghosts180 Proof