Sometimes we get diamonds, other times we get states of conscious experience. — TheWillowOfDarkness

false analogy.

what is a diamond, is it atoms? then its nothing but cold dead dark matter. is it a bright and shiny thing? then its consciousness. decide which. and pick one. both are fundamentally different and neither are remotely compatible with each other.

you try and blur the subject by analogizing to another thing you have blurred. but i see through your tricks. your spinning around in circles of illusion and im standing outside the illusion looking at it and laughing.

Not a worry here, since conscious instances are just another state of matter. — TheWillowOfDarkness

abracadabra poof the rabbit comes from the hat

you just need the right incantation or magic wand and the rabbit can come from the hat

not to worry

if we just arrange the hats in the right order the rabbits will come! haha

either your using magical thinking or your doing something else and claiming all matter is conscious. either way is flawed.

mental gymnastics to avoid the paradigm shift. just like they did with the geocentric solar system

if one atom is not conscious then no arrangement of them will ever produce it

and if one atom is conscious then they all are

and we havent even got into the fact that there is no direct evidence for matter in the first place, only qualia. haha

to claim a causality is to assert something came for something else. — TheWillowOfDarkness

causality only moves things that already exist, it cannot produce something new

its related to motion not substance

and since motion cannot come from stillness and we currently have motion then it must be eternal

To say concousness cannot be caused by brains because it cannot come from nothing is incoherent. Brains aren't nothing. — TheWillowOfDarkness

the brain producing consciousness is like a hat producing a rabbit. where is the magic wand?

matter cannot produce spirit and spirit cannot produce matter

the brain cannot create consciousness and god cannot create a universe

two totally different fundamental substances

and even if they werent what would the brain make consciousness from? what did god make the universe from? spare parts they had lying around? haha

whatever substance exists must exist eternally

causality (motion) must also be eternal

intelligence and knowledge, neither are real.

taking two unknown things and comparing them is not real knowledge. but that is the only knowledge the mind has.

the mind is nothing but a reflection of the unknown.

reflecting and comparing the unknown will never make it known

watch "intelligence" and you will see its nothing but a recording then used as a map to avoid pain and attain pleasure

For is consciousness can come from a brain, then why can't water suddenly stand up and talk? — Gregory

consciousenss cannot come from brain because something cannot come from nothing. so either consciousness is eternal or it doesnt exist. to say it doesnt exist is self refuting, your using it to say it. therefore it must be eternal. so birth and death are illusions and only apply to the body.

and lack of memory of the past does not prove non existence of self but only non existence of memory now. therefore i have no proof i did not exist 1000000 years ago

The mind looking with the eyes sees only the universe.

Bypass both and look directly with consciousness. and know yourself omnisciently.

It's merely the outline of the TOE — PoeticUniverse

TOE is the mind trying to play god. Trying to gain false omniscience. The mind can never have omniscience, it comes from directly from consciousness to consciousness.

I am more interested herein in explaining the one and only 'it' — PoeticUniverse

explaining the 'it' is mental masturbation. you are not separate from it, there is no need to look outward and do science to know "it". look within and there it is. here it is. it is you. i am it.

So, it is at least an 'it', but not necessarily an 'I' of mind. — PoeticUniverse

It's self refuting to claim "I dont exist". Therefore you must claim "I exist". And anything that currently actually exists must necessarily be eternal, and omnipresent. I AM GOD.

But reasoning to this conclusion is not required. It can simply be known immediately and directly omnisciently. I AM THAT I AM.

I contend that the 'fine tuning' argument undermines this view, because in order for there to be atoms, there first had to be stars - so the causal chain that created the circumstances for life had to start before there was even matter; so, not an accident, not meaningfully the outcome of chance. — Wayfarer

Stars do not create matter, they simply create higher elements from lower elements through fusion caused by lots of gravity. Lower elements like hydrogen atoms get "crushed" together creating more complex atoms like carbon needed for human life.

Even atoms were formed from something deeper, and so on, but eventually you must necessarily hit something eternal and omnipresent, which is here now, that I AM.

Let's assume for the sake of argument that some kind of creative intelligence is responsible for big bang. — jellyfish

This is just the human ego (separate self with free-will) illusion projecting itself onto existence. Destroy your own ego illusion and the god illusion will disappear along with it.

Intelligence does not exist. Can not exist. What we think of intelligence is actually just another pattern, which is one with all the other patterns in and of the ultimate pattern. All necessarily: eternally one, eternally ordered, eternally causal, and eternally omnipresent.

Free-will begets something coming from nothing and therefore a god cannot have it anymore then a human can. Starting points are illusions of ignorance of previous causality within the eternal chain. Whether that starting point is the big bang OR a choice in the mind of god.

The god idea does not solve the 'starting point' problem. It simply pushes it back one step and hides it behind a deeply rooted illusion.

Then it causes religion to form. Little ego's (humans) that want the big ego (god) to save it. The little ego can never be saved, only destroyed. Eternal bliss is on the other side.

chaos is a relative and pragmatic term only. it doesnt exist on an absolute level.

"randomness is just a pattern to big to see" -unknown

there is no choas, only order, and it must necessarily be eternal. because something cannot come from nothing. sure we see entropy but we also see emergence, so its just an eternal ying yang going around in circles. perfection.

an eternally looping pandeism of sorts

No, I am God... From my perspective you only exist as scribbles on a screen with no cause. If I am the primary cause, then "your" posts are actually my posts - it's just that I don't remember typing them. — Harry Hindu

Also true If you get into a car accident and loose your memory and login under a different account and reply to your old posts, haha.

If a rock spoke back to me when spoken to, and i could have long and interesting conversations with it, i would. Not because it is sentient but simply because it is interesting.

Same reason we respond to these scribbles on a screen. Same reason we will spend hours talking to A.I. machines in the future. Same reason the mind can and will even talk to itself sometimes.

Same reason the hand closes slightly as if grasping an object when there is none. Because hands are meant to grasp and minds are meant to talk. Grasping just happens and talking just happens. It's unstoppable.

Gold shaped into a bird. — fdrake

there is your answer

now ask yourself what is shaped into a body, a world, a universe?

"To the Self the world is but a colorful show, which he enjoys as long as it lasts and forgets when it is over." -Nisargadatta

why do things change? because they are made of something else. and if they are made of something else then they are not really themselves but what they are made of. for what they are made of was merely impersonating something else and fooled you

for example: i shape some gold into a bird and give it to you. what do you have? a bird or gold?

Qualia shapes itself into a person, what do you have? a person or qualia?

"Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen." ~L.W. — 180 Proof

"A finger pointing at the moon is not the moon. The finger is needed to know where to look for the moon, but if you mistake the finger for the moon itself, you will never know the real moon." -Thich Nhat Hanh

But here's what we know: there is a universe. Does not matter how unlikely that is, because here it is. — tim wood

Where?

"What changes is not real, what is real does not change." -Nisargadatta

"To where."
-

off your mind and onto reality

^^

The universe is an optical illusion. shift your point of view and it disappears

The superior student listens to the Way
And follows it closely.

The average student listens to the Way
And follows some and some not.

The lesser student listens to the Way
And laughs out loud.

If there were no laughter it would not be the Way.

-Lao Tzu

just input the name of any book into google followed by the term: pdf. will show results for many of them available to read for free online

and what if a mirror universe exists, beside this one, that is 100% identical. If you flew a spaceship out of this universe towards it you would run into yourself doing the exact same thing. Attempting to talk to yourself you both say the exact same thing at the exact same time. Nobody would ever be able to visit the mirror universe because they would not be able to get past their mirror self attempting to do the exact same thing. If you tried to kill your mirror self your bullet would just impact his cancelling each other out. The only way to kill him would be to kill yourself, he would die in the exact same way at the exact same time. He would know every secret you ever had, and you would know his.

People who are ignorant of their ignorance believe that trying harder is the only solution. But no matter how hard they try they keep failing because they lack knowledge. Then they burn out, blame themselves, and give up. Leading to more and more feelings of inferiority and hate. Will-power is very limited, utilize it primarily to learn and increase knowledge. Then you can work smarter not harder. Study information online for free. Start with something you're already interested in because time flies when you're having fun. Talk to everyone and absorb everything. Question everything, especially your own assumptions. Blow your own mind. Utilize one of the greatest pieces of technology in existence, the human brain. You are currently a seed full of potential, who will one day bloom into a god.

Tsk Tsk Tsk, what a mess we make when we begin with assumptions based on illusions.



Firstly:
big bang creating/causing itself,
god creating/causing universe,
brain creating/causing consciousness,
mind creating/causing choice,
is all predicated something coming from nothing and are therefore impossible. Therefore I do not need to waste my time reading any books based on those illusions, and getting lost in details that are all based on false beginnings, like you have.

-We currently have substance therefore it must be uncreated and eternal.
-We currently have motion therefore it must be uncreated and eternal.
-We currently have order, therefore it must be uncreated and eternal.
Build your conclusions or science from and within those absolute starting points.



Secondly:
Don't assume the universe or the brain continue to exist when you're not looking at them. The only thing that's proven is this consciousness here now, as it is here now, and nothing else. Any other belief just happens in consciousness here now. A belief in the universe, the brain, matter, all happens in and of consciousness here now and therefore proves nothing except for consciousness here now.

Build your conclusions around that absolute starting point.

Consciousness is not in the body the body is in consciousness,
Consciousness is not in the universe, the universe is in consciousness,
and it must be eternal.

So you see my good sirs I AM the creator of the universe.

“Tthe teaching is merely a vehicle to describe the truth. Don’t mistake it for the truth itself. A finger pointing at the moon is not the moon. The finger is needed to know where to look for the moon, but if you mistake the finger for the moon itself, you will never know the real moon. The teaching is like a raft that carries you to the other shore. The raft is needed, but the raft is not the other shore. An intelligent person would not carry the raft around on his head after making it across to the other shore. My teaching is the raft which can help you cross to the other shore beyond birth and death. Use the raft to cross to the other shore, but don’t hang onto it as your property. Do not become caught in the teaching. You must be able to let it go.” -Thich Nhat Hanh

For discussion sake: brain, mind, intelligence, consciousness and qualia are five different things. Lets be careful not to 'muddle' them together as the same thing.

Well then lets forget about talk and look and see.

If we look in the body/brain do we see any consciousness in there?

animals and humans are not consicous

the mind gets everything backwards and inside out when it goes off on its own and does not rely on omniscience as the source of truth

1- As the metaphysics becomes more and more true it will go more and more beyond thought and words.
2- The only thing that exists is color, sound, feeling, which is all conscious and ordered and flowing. The mind is just an echo of that only reality. A reflection, within it, of it, as part of it.

First cause arguments are all flawed because they predicate something coming from nothing. If causation exists it must therefore be eternal. Nothing real can ever begin. Motion cannot just start up from nothing. Whether that motion is the movement of the big bang or the movement of god. And therefore both science and religion are wrong. Religion just tacks on the same problem as the solution and pretends it solved something haha

"The eternal hourglass of existence is turned upside down again and again, and you with it." -Nietzsche

Unless you assume god is a magician that can do magic. But that is magical thinking. One false thing cannot be used to prove another false thing true.

But you already created a bad starting point when you assumed the universe even exists.

The god character is basically just a projection of the human ego illusion. Overcome that and it will disappear at the same time.

1- trying to talk about what is real(metaphysics) is an oxymoron. using the unreal to try and reach the real is impossible unless someone is willing to let go of the unreal and go beyond it, hence why good metaphysics always leads to spirituality/meditation etc....
2- sentience refers to both mind and consciousness, which are two different things, although ultimately the same thing, but only because everything is ultimately the same thing.

of course, but this is a philosophy forum after all.

1- metaphysics does not require belief
2- consciousness and sentience are two different things. we should define these terms.

I have no understanding, I simply see that the snake is actually just a rope. You don't need belief to know its just a rope, just look.

when the mind stops and looks you are omniscient, and from that the mind gains absolute truth

1- 'possibility' refers to epistemology not metaphysics.
2- color, sound, taste, smell, feeling, must be conscious or it would be impossible to experience or know of their existence

The term 'omniscientnihilist' refers to the true nature of the mind.

Koans are often purposefully used to stop the mind, which then helps someone to see the real reality once the mind is out of the way. The mind should serve the omniscience not cloud it.

Two hands clap and there is a sound. What is the sound of one hand? (隻手声あり、その声を聞け) — Hakuin Ekaku

My point is simply that metaphysics can get weird sometimes. It's normal. Simply take a break or request more clarification in an area. Get back to the basics. Or forget words all together because they aren't required. Just look instead. Deep looking is often called mediation.