Anyone else experience that? — TiredThinker

Mine was removed in 1949. No aftereffects I know of.

I'm trying to find the simplest words for what I see as the issue — plaque flag

Your mathematics background shining through. :cool:

But it's a fact that the practice of philosophy does not much resemble the practice of science. — Srap Tasmaner

An understatement of impressive magnitude.

There will be debate, and some new tests to replicate the date, but eventually everyone will agree to reshuffle our understanding of the populating of the Americas. Nothing like this is even conceivable in philosophy. — Srap Tasmaner

Scientists seek truth, while philosophers argue the definition of truth. Interesting interplay.

Unbiased reporting raises no hackles and is considered too bland. It's all about confirmation bias these days. A couple of years ago I thought NPR was even minded - then they began supporting wokeness and the 1619 Project. Some here may think that is no argument against unbiased reporting, but it is, just to the left and not the right.

Disinformation, whether from the media or social sites, is the number one threat to this nation.

But it goes further still: to speak at all, to have a thought and draw a conclusion or affirm a conditional or negation is inherently affective. the point I make here is that it is these analytical conditions, which are typical in everyday living, tend to reify the categorical analyses, reducing the world to its own abstract image. The actuality, intuitive givenness of things, if you will, of putting the eyes to the computer screen, . . . — Astrophel

You write well, very impressive. More so if I were to understand what you say. But then as a mathematician I can not skillfully put into words the sensation of "knowing" when a theorem's proof resonates with me. :chin:

Science hypostatizes this quantifying dimension of reason, and gives us a picture of truth as factual truth, and facts are quantifiable and abide by the law of excluded middle, and do not bear the fluidity of actuality we see in desire, love, pleasure, hate, despair, boredom and the rest. This is THE existential complaint. — Astrophel

Were you a scientist or mathematician you might realize the desires, loves, pleasures, etc. arising from the practice of the profession. To the contrary these experiences give meaning to one's life.

But then all of this discussion falls by the wayside of actual physical experience. Go climbing.

whereas my example involves an infinite number of functions in the iteration process. — jgill

What condition do you use to terminate your program? — universeness

The theory of convergence involves all the functions. In practice, on the computer, I simply specify N. Usually N=100 or 1000.

Outside the cities I doubt 65% want to move away from the private automobile. — jgill
That’s nice. Unfortunately I prefer going by polling, not personal feelings — Mikie

bingChat:

There is no specific data on the percentage of people in rural areas who would prefer public transportation. However, it is known that rural demographics make public transit increasingly desired. For example, older Americans make up a larger portion of rural populations (17 percent) than in urban populations (13 percent) and rural residents with disabilities rely on public transit- they take about 50 percent more public transit trips than unimpaired people do 1. Additionally, there are 2.9 million rural veterans, making up 33 percent of the veteran population enrolled in the VA health care system. Rural public transit can help them access needed services

68% want a public option; about 65% + favor public transit. — Mikie

Although public transportation is a high priority among Americans, only about 5% use it to commute to work. Outside the cities I doubt 65% want to move away from the private automobile.

When I think of fractals I think of the Mandelbrot Set, although the definition has gone far beyond that example and into normal everyday conversations to mean intricate patterns in the plane. Iteration is at the heart of the topic and that is a kind of recursion. The following illustrates the basic difference between a Mandelbrot set and what I do:


${{f}_{\zeta }}(z)={{z}^{2}}+\zeta$ , with complex variables.

${{F}_{n}}(\zeta )={{f}_{\zeta }}\circ {{f}_{\zeta }}\circ \cdots \circ {{f}_{\zeta }}(0)$
You go systematically across the complex $\zeta$-plane and paint the points where the composition function is well-behaved for a predetermined value of n, say n=1,000.

For $z=x+iy$, ${{f}_{n}}(z)=\cos (\tfrac{1}{n}y)+i\sin (x+\tfrac{1}{n})$

${{F}_{n}}(z)={{f}_{1}}\circ {{f}_{2}}\circ \cdots \circ {{f}_{n}}(z)$
You go systematically across the complex plane and paint the points colors depending upon how large the composition function is at that point.

There is no randomized factor in either case. Note that the Mandelbrot set is simple iteration at each point of the plane, whereas my example involves an infinite number of functions in the iteration process.

However, the Chaos Game is another approach that includes randomness. Beyond my scope of knowledge.

I use very simple BASIC programs I have written for the images of my examples.

A good thing can be overdone, losing its potency.

If we send two signals to the Mars Rover, spaced at exactly 10 seconds apart, does the Rover receive them in that same time spread?

Yes, and if the two observer walking past each other simultaneously send signals to Andromeda, and then another signal a minute later, they'd get to Andromeda at the same time, and the second signal a minute later, separated by the time it takes light to go however far apart the guys got in that minute. — noAxioms

Of course.

By the time the light reaches her, she's simply closer to it. She's been walking millions of years towards it already. Once Bill sees the decision happening, for Ann at that point, having walked at 5 m/s for all that time, the light reaching her then is 15 days later and the armada is already on its way. — Benkei

:roll:

But it would likely affect the pool of qualified candidates in the future — Srap Tasmaner

Good point. But academic employment is dismal these days for many, including minorities. Adjunct professors is a way to milk the most out of individuals without providing benefits traditionally offered.

I taught for years at a state university, and had no part in admission practices and didn't think about them. However, where AA became a factor in hiring faculty I participated in and observed, first hand, what it meant and what the results were. Gender and racial factors were made clear through word of mouth and not the written word. Instead of emphasizing academic and teaching excellence we were encouraged to think minimally competent but diverse racially or genderwise.

Nevertheless, this didn't work badly with one notable exception where moral misadventures ensued. When that individual came up for tenure, the hiring committee pressured the dean to deny tenure.

It doesn't seem this ruling affects hiring practices at universities.

Coooool fractal based image! — universeness

Not quite. There is no repeated configuration at varying scales, just an obvious symmetry. It arises from a self-generating Euler reverse continued fraction involving sines and cosines in the complex plane, and appears HERE.

In math, fractals are usually produced by much simpler iterative schemes.

But, I've created a large number of such images by going beyond iteration of a single function, and after a while one feels the "noise" and "saturation" of too much beauty.

You are ignorant if you think that political and social landscapes aren't instead ruled by structural attractors. They have memories and thus place constraints on their variety. They evolve as information systems and don't simply unwind as an accumulation of accidents.

So to the degree that semiotic systems have sensitivity to initial conditions, this is a designed-in level of accident. Evolvability itself evolves. The criticality that grounds a living and mindful system is precisely tuned. — apokrisis

Here is what the science fiction author Stanislaw Lem had to say with reference to fiction:

“Even though a circular causal structure may signalize a frivolous type of content, this does not mean that it is necessarily reduced to the construction of comic antinomies for the sake of pure entertainment. The causal circle may be employed not as the goal of the story, but as a means of visualizing certain theses, e.g. from the philosophy of
history. Slonimaki's story of the Time Torpedo3 belongs here. It is a [belletristic] assertion of the "ergoness" or ergodicity of history: monkeying with events which have had sad consequences does not bring about any improvement of history; instead of one group of disasters and wars there simply comes about another, in no waybetter set.

A diametrically opposed hypothesis, on the other hand, is incorporated into Ray Bradbury's "A Sound of Thunder"(1952). In an excellently written short episode, a participant in a "safari for tyrannosaurs" tramples a butterfly and a couple of flowers, and by that microscopic act causes such perturbances of causal chains involving millions of years, that upon his return the English language has a different orthography and a different candidate not-- liberal but rather a kind of dictator-- has won in the presidential election.

I quoted this in a paper I wrote a few years back. The ergodic theory of history may prevail in social landscapes. Here is a comment I made:

The dynamical systems of mathematics (sets of points and functions to be iterated),
particularly in the complex plane, show both sorts of narratives. There are instances of very
stable regions in which all points under iteration of a particular complex function converge
to a central point, an “attractor”; and there are at times very sensitive regions where
starting the iteration process at two different but neighboring points leads to severe
divergence of outcomes

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You have mentioned what could be seen as a kind of iterative process going from ground up, influenced, perhaps guided or corrected , by "communications" or signals from above. Elaborate on this a bit if you would. I have looked at a paper you suggested, but it's a bit too technical. I'd like to design a simple analogue in the complex plane in which the iterative process includes alterations of the generating function at each time step, these suggested by "observations" at the end of the process. I think of a plant growing upward while at the roots things are happening that more or less guide the outcome above.

Or perhaps this is just babble like that nonsense on the Andromeda Paradox. :roll:

I was told she did the White House portrait, but now I can find no reference to a painting by a woman. So maybe it was a tale and not a fact. :chin:

It's the notion that a few seconds on Earth could mean fifteen minutes in distant galaxies. :chin:

If we send two signals to the Mars Rover, spaced at exactly 10 seconds apart, does the Rover receive them in that same time spread? Assume the relative positions don't change.

That's inspirational, Uni Man! I wish I had artistic talent. A great Aunt of mine painted the portrait of Alben Barkley, VP under Truman, and my aunt was very talented, as is my daughter. Skipped me. My only claim to art are the unpredictable images that came forth from an obscure branch of mathematics I have dabbled in for years.



Dream of Gold

Perhaps conservatives are better in managing their money. I am an independent who leans conservative and I look for bargains. Social injustices are not top of the agenda when I spend money.

Sorry. It seems trivial. Philosophers sitting around the campfire making up spooky stories, flashlights under their chins. Not that there's anything wrong with that. — T Clark

Especially if those spooky stories illuminate special relativity in such challenging ways. :roll:

Some of the materialists here get all huffy when you ask them if insects are conscious — RogueAI

Go see Naked Lunch and you will come away with a new respect for insects. :cool:

I am an old man and my feeling is that, compared with sixty years ago, there is too much of everything. Hardly anything stands out from a prolific environment, whether visual art or mathematics (the latter was my profession) or you name it. How can something have meaning when there are so many somethings?

It's an existential challenge made more difficult now with so much being done. (And so many brighter than oneself :cool: )

Best to put this baby to beddy bye. :cool:

about five to twenty minutes has elapsed — jgill

I'm glad you're not on my appointment list. — Metaphysician Undercover

The time varies from 5 to 20 minutes depending upon the relative positions of the two planets.

https://mars.nasa.gov/mars2020/spacecraft/rover/communications/ :roll:

I don't know. When I see a sum "c+v" relating to the speed of light I am suspicious. When that occurs there is an additional factor involved which keeps speeds below c. But my knowledge of SR is very limited.

Please explain how "even the slightest movement of the head or offset in distance between observers can cause the three-dimensional universes to have differing content." And how can this purported difference in content cause a difference in simultaneity of months? — T Clark

I'll second that. Curious. Does chaos theory intersect relativity?

↪jgill
not some sort of secret mystical wisdom if you look hard enough? — Darkneos

If one meditated continuously on a bear turd in the forest eventually there would be a moment of enlightenment.

A waste of time, I think.

1. Seems OK. Beyond that it fizzles off into babbling, IMO.

I generally view philosophy as a means to explore and understand language rather than as something to elicit ‘truth’. — I like sushi

:up: Sounds about right.

Milton Friedman criticised the concept of wage-price spirals, arguing "It's the external manifestation of inflation, but not its source... the inflation arises from one and only one reason: an increase in a quantity of money.

(Wikipedia)

Oh oh. You mean we can't keep giving money away?

So do distant events occur in the past relative to my reference frame? Or the future? Or not at all? — Michael

When the Mars rover sends a message back to Earth it takes, what, about five to twenty minutes to reach us. When we receive it about five to twenty minutes has elapsed, in our time, since the message was sent. That's how I see it, but I've been wrong before.

the idea that workers being paid a living wage in the richest country on Earth somehow hurts older Americans is a lie — Mikie

Not talking about a "living wage", only raising wages in general for the purpose of blunting inflation. That's a recipe for leaving older generations on fixed incomes behind.

I don't think the liberal response to rate hikes is ageism. It's just an impotent gesture — frank

Deal with inflation? (1) raise wages (2) raise interest rates.

(1) simply ignores inflation by feeding the wage-inflation spiral. (2) was pretty effective when Volker took the reins. But, admittedly, the country is in unexplored financial territory now.

I consider this "paradox" untenable since simultaneity cannot apply to distant events.

Compensating workers more drives up the spiral and leaves retirees behind in the dust. — jgill

No it doesn’t.

The excuses for keeping wages low are getting more and more pathetic. Now it’s supposed to hurt old people… :roll: — Mikie

"Perhaps that's acceptable since ageism is thriving"


ego requiem meam causa.

Compensate workers more. — Mikie

According to Bing AI, 40% of American seniors rely solely on SS to survive. Many others are on fixed income retirement plans as well. These people are left behind to suffer the most devastating impacts on society from high inflation. Compensating workers more drives up the spiral and leaves retirees behind in the dust. Perhaps that's acceptable since ageism is thriving.

:up:

And I do understand the formula that is used, but how can you explain the illogicality of it? — Sir2u

Not sure you can. If you understood the nature of light in that no matter what reference frame it moves at light speed, c. Didn't Einstein come upon this while riding his bike?

What would Aristotle say? :roll: