The Butterfly Effect carried to unimaginable complexities. Nature is a fantastically intricate dynamic system. The effect of not being born moves both ways in time and looking backwards brings up whether time actually has a beginning.

My father didn't know his father who died in a mining accident about 1912. Dad had several siblings but he was the only one to leave the coal mines behind. He had his mother save his pay for tending the underground donkeys and after he graduated high school he attended Penn State for a year, then went into the deep south to continue his education, working as a campus cop to support himself.

Dad's mother was a resourceful woman. She turned her shotgun house into a small grocery store and supported herself and her children for years. The store was still open in the 1960s. She lived to 94 or so. I only met her once when we drove from Alabama to Pennsylvania for a visit in the late 1940s. That was considered a big deal and the local newspaper had an article about our adventure.

I don't recall either of my parents complaining bitterly about the Depression. They minimized their needs and adjusted as best they could. When WWII came along Dad was offered a commission in the Navy, but he had a health problem and turned it down. After the end of the War he became chief statistician for the War Assets Administration for a brief period. Then on to academia.

My mother, a Southern Belle from Alabama, and my father, from a coal mining town in PA, were both born in 1910. My father became an academic but in high school he worked nights in a coal mine taking care of the donkeys and doing his homework.

The only time my mother worked was when Dad was getting his final grad degree at the U of Texas around 1950, and she played the piano for a womens' PE class. At the height of the GD one summer Dad got a teaching job at a small college in Arkansas where he was not paid but given room and board. Mom and Dad would happily reminisce about the huge bowls of grapes at each meal.

Mom was quite content with her role as wife and mother (just me), although she had a BA in education.

There may not be a lot of interest in the GD here. I was attracted to the thread because I was born during that time and have vague recollections from pre and early WWII days. I suggest letting it ride the Front Page wave and see if it passes away at the bottom or is revived.

I was glad when my X left and filed for divorce, but I don't see that as the best possible outcome for the family. From my point of view, men thought women's liberation meant they no longer had family responsibility. They walked away, leaving the women with hurt and angry teenagers. I don't think that was a good thing. Today, it makes my heart happy to see a man in the park with his children. I am hoping the younger men are better husbands and fathers than when there was too much division between what men and women did. — Athena

I insisted on custody of our 9 year old daughter. My ex wife spread her wings and did well, now married and retired. My daughter is business manager of a large academic/professional school in a institute in NYC. She will retire in the next few years, as will her husband.

When you are handed lemons make lemonade.

Pardon the intrusion. I haven't read all the posts. You have a set {1,3,5} , and then you have another set that has as elements the properties shared by the elements of the first set. If this derived set is a singleton, then one could identify the elements of the first set.

Not really set theory, otherwise we would need TonesinDeepFreeze.

I was born during the Great Depression. My parents became very frugal, and I have always been conservative in my wants and needs. Except my father went to town one day and bought a new Buick sedan (1938) for about $900.! My mother never forgave him for that. But I learned to drive in that car 13 years later.

I am reading my post, and I am thinking, women's liberation happened! — Athena

Indeed it did. My wife fell under its spell and I supported her by attending meetings with her. As frequently happened during that time we ended up divorcing. We drew up the papers ourselves. It was painful at the time, but good for both in the long run.

For what its worth I'll toss in a definition of a mathematical system:

"A mathematical system consists of:

A set or universe, U.

Definitions: sentences that explain the meaning of concepts that relate to the universe. Any term used in describing the universe itself is said to be undefined. All definitions are given in terms of these undefined concepts of objects.
Axioms: assertions about the properties of the universe and rules for creating and justifying more assertions. These rules always include the system of logic that we have developed to this point.
Theorems: the additional assertions mentioned above."

Al Doerr & Ken Levasseur
University of Massachusetts Lowell

Within an infinite series, you can keep changing the scale of your numerical progression so that you'll never exit a bounded infinity. Enlarge the scale and you immediately exit the bounded infinity. Might this be the way out of Zeno's Paradox? — ucarr

Are you talking about a series or a sequence? What is a bounded infinity?

↪jgill
I also find it hillarious that you claim to be a mathematician yet have no idea about fundamental truths in physics which I mentioned earlier. This must be a parody. — Illuminati

You mean the sacred nature of OIZ ? This is a fundamental truth? This sounds more like a cult.

One can appreciate the theories about the origins of the universe without worshiping them.

You are going off topic because you have no arguments — Illuminati

Astute of you. True. How does one argue against the magic of "0IZ" ?

"Infinite series" caught my attention.

A dimension is a time-zero unification of an infinite series from a baseline dimension upwards to the next higher dimension — ucarr

You'll have to be more specific. Put this in math terms.

The One means that there is no other One, it is Unique and Simple. It is composed only of itself and it is Alone and All-one (everything and everyone) — Illuminati

I am very old. I apologize, but when I read something like this I tend to fall asleep. Is this supposedly enlightening? Is there a Zen moment of Aha!! ? Why do you write something like this over and over? Does meditation help making this pronouncement astounding?

Finally, why is this on the forum page and not in the Lounge? Moderators?

Very appropriate. It was trying keeping up with the many non-properties of nothingness.

Speculations about the nature of space go far beyond the well defined parameters of mathematics. You are on a mystical journey.

As a mathematician, how would you formally account for the emergence of spatial structure within an entity that is dimensionless? Specifically, how can space, as a relational or metric construct, arise from a foundational state that lacks extension, orientation, or measurable attributes? — Illuminati

The origins of space and time are speculations, not facts. A mathematical "space" is a set of "points" and some sort of structure. With two points one may get a measure, I suppose. The transition from the sort of foundational state to what we experience in the real world lies not in the realm of mathematics to the best of my knowledge.

The closest I can come to what you seem to be talking about is the essential singularity e^(1/z) in the complex plane. In every neighborhood of z=0 the function takes on any value an infinite number of times, save perhaps one such value. Sounds like a mystical phenomenon doesn't it?

Carry on. Beyond my bailiwick.

This is not about mathematics or arithmetics as each number was explained in a philosophical manner. — Illuminati

True enough. Like the Zen definitions, perhaps.

From this perspective, Zero is equated with “nothingness,” in its
primal manifestation as Chaos - that is, as a universal, unlimited
unity without form, prior to the emergence of any differentiation.
Thus, Chaos is not merely the opposite of Order, but a state of
absolute potential unity, where no distinction has yet arisen.
In this logic, Zero is - meaning it is the opposite of non-being. — Illuminati

I realize this is a kind of divine interpretation of one and zero, but tossing chaos into the mix is rather unpleasing to a mathematician. Nevertheless, continue with your rapturous presentation.

From an infinite composition of complex functions arises "Reproductive Universe". Entirely unpredictable - an example of weak emergence.

There is an interesting mathematical model of cause/effect in compositions of functions.
$f\circ g(z)=f(g(z))$ like a force field where one function starts the movement, then another function causes further movement, etc. Over and over again the process can be written
${{F}_{n}}(z)={{f}_{n}}\circ {{f}_{n-1}}\circ \cdots \circ {{f}_{1}}(z)$. In certain settings (certain Banach spaces) this process approaches a limit as n grows larger and larger, provided there is what might be called a hidden "guiding principle" of each function and that the sequence of these converges as n grows.

I've mentioned before this relates to theology as well, for de Chardin's "Omega Point" might be so interpreted.

Mathematically, this is both a sufficient and necessary condition for convergence to a "final effect".

Perhaps a philosophical idea lurks herein. Otherwise, what I see is an endless word game being played. But pay no mind and continue.

Farmer's work begins before the rising sun and ends after the last vestiges of sunset. The only security they have comes from their own efforts, while in the big cities, social democrats pound the drums for large unions like the UAW, while looking down on flyover country as they commute from coast to coast. There is a tendency for city dwellers to think the country folk beneath them, with jokes and demeaning comments. Why should it be surprising that farmers move to the party that supports individual efforts and responsibility?

In my case, my father being a university professor of course presented a professional path that appealed, and when I took up climbing those free summers were a huge motivating factor. I was a USAF officer for a short while, and could have remained in the service, and could also have taken a civilian job based upon that education and experience, but I got married - and that, I admit, just seemed to happen - an almost wistful push from a societal breeze.

My point is a very shallow one: when young we seem unaware of the finiteness of life as well as the force exerted by our social surroundings. As we age unawareness smoothly slips into trepidation, especially if we have obligations.

Nice thread. Welcome to TPF.

At the same time, the idea of ​ temporality and being-to-death remains attractive for my research. In this idea, I see Heidegger's attempt to describe the very inner tension that makes a person act. Decomposing temporality into a sense of possible one's own death and ignorance (the unknown of the purpose of existence and the consequences of any choice), I tried to express this "inner tension" in simple language — Astorre

Finally, at the age of 88, with some medical problems,I have begun to understand this conjecture. But, at a younger age, like many if not most of my peers, this line of thought would be beyond my horizon. I doubt it even roamed my subconscious.

Have others here experienced this sort of finitude?

. . . but just states that if society already treats 16 year olds as adults for other purposes, then to be consistent, they should also be allowed to vote. — Hanover

OK, kids, let's head to the liquor store! And let's permit consensual sex for girls at that age. Oh. and let's bring back the draft, this time for 16 year olds.

Can uncertainty and finitude be considered the true primary causes of existential choice? — Astorre

To what extent does an an individual's recollection of an existential turning point in their lives support or negate this pronouncement?

I became what I consider an "existentialist" in the early 1960s after reading Sartre's book and realizing that an activity that I had found compelling but which held no attraction to those I socialized with could become an intricate part of my life and have "meaning" simply because I decided that it should. That revelation shaped my life, and still does at age 88.

"Finitude" played no role in my decision. Not once did it arise in my deliberations, although I suppose I might have been a little less compelled were I immortal. Heidegger's concept seems to me absurd. "Uncertainty", however, existed in my choice of a professional career - I was fortunate to have several options. To what extent would each of these interact with the activity to which I had given meaning? Which of these alternatives would be most "meaningful" itself? It turned out that choice went well in both regards.

I would like to read of others on this forum who went through similar experiences. To what extent does psychology intersect with philosophy here?

In mathematics one's imagination leads to new concepts or ways to prove existing conjectures. Then the application of logic finishes the job.

Many of us came here as refugees after being thrown into the ether when our old home was invaded and closed down to us — Sir2u

I was on a superb climbing forum (supertopo) for several years until it shut down. Topics like Zen and consciousness along with climbing discussions. Quite varied. I've enjoyed this forum, especially mathematical threads, having been a practitioner for eons.

I’m pretty sure “liberal” can’t be described in zeros and ones — Fire Ologist

Lib = 12 9 2 = 1100 1001 10

:nerd:

Consider the phrase, "I am politically nonbinary." — David Hubbs

It means my politics cannot be described in zeros and ones. Big deal. :nerd:

Fascinating idea to be sure, but, if spacetime structure contracts to a single point, for which descriptions of events is complete insofar as there wouldn’t be any more events to describe, wouldn’t that suffice as the end of spacetime? — Mww

It would just take spacetime closer and closer to alpha without ever reaching the point of completion. The component of time would shrink, but not collapse.

Just doodling with a theorem of mine in Banach space. Pay no heed.

Time ends with the end of the last relational intelligence; spacetime ends after the last formulation of a mathematical model of a relativistic continuum. — Mww

Which sparked my interest since I am or was a mathematician. I can model the far future in an imaginative way by considering the passage of spacetime as a series of cause/effect steps, say at Planck time rhythm.

Suppose each step is a function operating on the previous effect and all this takes place in some enormous but closed environment. And suppose each function "contracts", brings things a tad closer together. Then, under certain mathematical assumptions, as time moves ever forward, if at each step there is a thing that does not change (a "fixed point"), and these things converge to a specific thing (call it "alpha") as time marches on, the entire structure of spacetime contracts to that singular alpha.

This may conflict with entropy, since objects seem to be moving apart, but maybe not.

Which means no "end" to spacetime, but eventually all is taken to the vicinity of alpha.

Teilhard De Chardin calls alpha the "Omega Point", towards which everything moves.

Who da fuck is that? — RogueAI

AI with too much makeup.

these details will for now remain veiled. — Kizzy

What a shame.

Not necessarily. My old Democratic party (I registered in 1958) is sick unto death. I hope it recovers.

Thanks. I see I have neglected to reply to the one in question. :yikes:

What are the other pros and cons? — Banno

How does one find the replies he/she made in these PM conversations? All I can find are the incoming messages.

Speculation in the sciences and mathematics has become the fashionable version of philosophy and those who explore those realms of thought, the modern philosophers. How much more can be said of ontology without bringing in to play artificial intelligence?

As a retired mathematician I have seen the shift to foundations over the traditional ideas and simply extending knowledge in an envelop of heritage. Beyond the two basic forms of "infinity" - all I ever employed - are abstractions that appeal to a large number of math devotees. Here is an example: Unimaginable Infinities

Dear Vera, Rest in Peace. A sad time.