The OP asks, "What should you do?"
Think of the problem as being in the same family as Pascal's Wager, involving decision theory and epistemology. — Andrew M
What area of philosophy do you think the significance would obtain? — Janus
Sorry, I'm not following this. This sounds like you think I said your expected gain when you have the smaller envelope is zero, which is insane. — Srap Tasmaner
It's truly remarkable that a question which is of no philosophical significance or interest could generate so many responses on a philosophy forum! — Janus
Here's my decision tree again (...) — Srap Tasmaner
This still looks like you're considering what would happen if we always stick or always switch over a number of repeated games. I'm just talking about playing one game. There's £10 in my envelope. If it's the lower bound then I'm guaranteed to gain £10 by switching. If it's the upper bound then I'm guaranteed to lose £5 by switching. If it's in the middle then there's an expected gain of £2.50 for switching. I don't know the distribution and so I treat each case as equally likely, as per the principle of indifference. There's an expected gain of £2.50 for switching, and so it is rational to switch. — Michael
If we then play repeated games then I can use the information from each subsequent game and switch conditionally, as per this strategy (or in R), to realize the .25 gain.
And some of the time it will be 2v, because it could also be the lower bound. So given that v = 10, the expected value is one of 20, 12.5, or 5. We can be indifferent about this too, in which case we have 1/3 * 20 + 1/3 * 12.5 + 1/3 * 5 = 12.5. — Michael
But I don't know if my envelope contains the upper bound. Why would I play as if it is, if I have no reason to believe so? — Michael
No, because the expected gain is $333,334, which is more than my 333,334X. — Michael
But we're just talking about a single game, so whether or not there is a cumulative expected gain for this strategy is irrelevant. — Michael
If it's more likely that the expected gain for my single game is > X than < X then it is rational to switch.
Or if I have no reason to believe that it's more likely that the other envelope contains the smaller amount then it is rational to switch, as I am effectively treating a gain (of X) as at least as likely as a loss (of 0.5X).
The other way to phrase the difference is that my solution uses the same value for the chosen envelope (10) and your solution uses different values for the chosen envelope (sometimes 10 and sometimes 20 (or 5)). — Michael
then I am effectively treating both cases as being equally likely, and if I am treating both cases as being equally likely then it is rational to switch. — Michael
There's also the possibility that £10 is the bottom of the distribution, in which case the expected value for switching is £20. — Michael
Assuming your goal merely is to maximise your expected value, you have not reason to favor switching over sticking.
— Pierre-Normand
Which, as I said before, is equivalent to treating it as equally likely that the other envelope contains the smaller amount as the larger amount, and so it is rational to switch.
If there's £10 in my envelope then the expected value for switching is £12.50, and the expected value for switching back is £10. — Michael
I have no way of knowing that my value is "average". Perhaps the 10^100 in my envelope is a puny value because the upper bound is Graham's number. — Michael
My argument is that given how arbitrarily large the numbers in the envelopes can be (using points rather than money), there isn't really a point at which one would consider it more likely that your envelope has the larger value. If my envelope is 10 then it's rational to switch. If it's 1,000 then it's rational too switch. If it's 10100 then it's rational to switch. — Michael
Sure, the practical limitations of real life play a role, but I wonder if such limitations go against the spirit of the problem. What if instead of money it's points, and the goal of the game is to earn the most points? There isn't really a limit, except as to what can be written on paper, but with such things as Knuth's up-arrow notation, unfathomably large numbers like Graham's number aren't a problem. — Michael
So my takeaway is that if it isn't rational to stick then it's rational to switch. — Michael
But this just seems to be saying that there's no reason to believe that it's more likely that the other envelope contains the smaller amount and no reason to believe that it's more likely that the other envelope contains the larger amount and so you're effectively treating each case as equally likely, in which case it would be rational to switch. — Michael
So what's the rational decision if you know that the prior distribution is isn't uniform and unbounded? There's £10 in your envelope. Should you stick or switch? — Michael
You seem to be saying that after picking an envelope I have to go from saying that there's a probability of 0.5 that I will pick the smaller envelope to saying that the probability is unknown that I have picked the smaller envelope. — Michael
But what action does your answer entail? Switching or sticking? If you say it doesn't matter, and so you're being indifferent, isn't that the same as treating it as equally likely that the other envelope contains the larger amount as the smaller amount? And if you're treating them as equally likely then isn't it rational to switch?
If you are using the principle of indifference then criticizing people for using the principle of indifference, that is hypocritical. Either accept that as a standard starting point or don't — Jeremiah
So you think you always have a 1.25 expected gain in every case? — Jeremiah
As far as I am concerned I already found the flaw. Take it or leave it, that is your choice. — Jeremiah
Hey, if you feel lucky then switch, if you think you are close to the cap don't, feel this one out, but you are not going to be able to quantify a positive gain based on the information we have. — Jeremiah
It is also rational to want ice-cream on a hot day. You still don't know anything about the distribution. You are speculating then trying to model your speculations. — Jeremiah
Statistics is a data science and uses repeated random events to make inference about an unknown distribution. We don't have repeated random events, we have one event. Seems like a clear divide to me. You can't learn much of anything about an unknown distribution with just one event. — Jeremiah
You don't know the distribution, you don't know the limits and you only get once chance to switch. — Jeremiah
You are no longer talking about just probability anymore, since you can now sample the distribution you are now engaged in statistics, which is outside the scope of the OP — Jeremiah
Actually only one case is true, while the other one does not exist. So they can't both be possible outcomes, not objectively. You are modeling your assumption of what you think is possible. However, just because you can think of something that doesn't mean it is objectively a possible outcome. — Jeremiah
The 1.25X come from considering expected gains over both cases, the larger and smaller. However when one case is true the other cannot be true, so it makes no sense to consider expected gains in this fashion. They should to be considered separately. — Jeremiah
Do you the the point or not? — Jeremiah
Never said any thing about both being actual at once. — Jeremiah
That is what I just did. The envelopes cannot be in both cases at once, therefore it makes no sense to hedge your expections that both cases are possible. — Jeremiah
And I am saying that doesn't really matter because it will always be amount A and amount B. — Jeremiah
See that was easy. — Jeremiah
I have two envelopes, one with amount A and one with amount B. I flip a fair coin to choose one. What is my chance of getting B? — Jeremiah
I think we are safe, I doubt anything will blow up. — Jeremiah
It absolutely can be ignored. — Jeremiah
The filling of the envelopes and the selecting of the envelopes are two separate events. — Jeremiah
