Comments

  • Are science and religion compatible, or oppositional philosophical approaches?

    I am writing in 2021 and try to keep up to date with science and ideas in philosophical thinking, as I am sure that most people on this probably do. I am not saying that we, like have no basis f all human beings do are coming from a certain historical perspective. I am not trying to undervalue our knowledge, but do wonder how any human being at any point in history is able to say that, at that moment in time, they are at the supreme point of evaluation of all previous views. But, I am not really trying to point to such an ultimate point being impossible, but querying how we go beyond the specifics, and how we can look to exploring elements which go beyond historical limitations of interpretation.
  • If you had the answer to world peace.

    My biggest query about your post is that you ask how we would use the answer to world peace, but that would mean that we had found the answers in the first place. However, what I think that your thread question raises is the complexity of translating ideas and ideals into practical realities. I am sure that many people have thought that they have answers but the way in which the ideas are applied to the practical realities of life is where the difficulties begin. It is the point at which philosophy and politics coincide, on a theoretical and practical basis.
  • A issue with the lounge section

    I think it is just worth looking occasionally on the site to see if there are any replies you haven't seen. I don't think we should just expect technology and moderators to do everything. That is like expecting permanent waiter service.
  • A issue with the lounge section
    I do get answers sometimes, but I think it depends whether the response clicke with a link to you. As the lounge is slower, often topics stay there for a long time, and people don't always write it to the person who wrote the initial post.
    Edit. I have just realised that I did not press the part to reply to you, so you probably won't get this.
  • 'What Are We?' What Does it Mean to be Human?

    I completely agree that suffering is a big part of human existence. I think that the particular questions Gaugin raises, especially the one of what we are do affect the way we cope with the suffering. I believe that the more insignificant feel on a cosmic level means that we place more emphasis on the mundane aspects of our lives. However, I am sure it has worked in the opposite way when people were often encouraged to put up with suffering, without complaining too much because they would be rewarded in the afterlife.
  • The Red Zones Of Philosophy (Philosophical Dangers)

    I have met many posturing nihilists but I think that this is probably different to genuine nihilism. So, it will be interesting to see if Gus or anyone else who subscribes to that philosophy responds. However, I wonder how we really differentiate between the posturing and the genuine, especially in the context of the movement of romanticism and angry young men. If when I was thinking about nihilism in January I had gone out and got into some discussion about nihilism, I am sure that I may have been seen as posturing. I am also asking myself whether I was a posturer myself when I used to read and talk about Nietzsche.
  • The Red Zones Of Philosophy (Philosophical Dangers)
    @Gus Lamarch
    As I am not saying anything against him, and do have respect for him and his philosophy of egoism, I have decided to include his name, so that he may get a notification. It would be interesting to have him partake in the discussion.
  • The Red Zones Of Philosophy (Philosophical Dangers)

    The one final comment which I would say is that from the conversation I had with the person who discussed his philosophy of nihilism with me, he was not saddened by this way of seeing life at all. The idea of a happy nihilist is interesting. If he is still using the forum, I wonder if he will read this, and what he might add.
  • The Red Zones Of Philosophy (Philosophical Dangers)

    I have only done very limited reading on the topic of nihilism. The context of me mentioning it was because I had a fair amount of discussion about the topic with a forum member, who I believe had read a lot in the area, and embraced nihilism. I won't name the user as I am not sure if he is still using the forum or not, because I have not seen posts by him.

    I was really speaking of how on the basis of discussion on the topic I had was a trigger for low mood. I did not tell the person who I was interacting with that I felt that way, and I would still engage with him further, and on that topic because I do think highly of his ideas and writing. Also, I have to admit that it probably would not have taken too much for me to get low because the discussion was in the height of lockdown However, I probably won't rush to read books on nihilism, although I don't specifically wish to avoid them.
  • The Red Zones Of Philosophy (Philosophical Dangers)

    I think that the link between philosophical positions and mental illness probably goes beyond the scope of the dangers of specific red zones of philosophy. Having worked in mental health care, I have seen that people's belief systems come into play in connection with mental health problems, but it involves many factors.

    I am also a bit wary of discussion about mental illness on this site, because I am sure that it is probably experienced by certain members of the forum. I have also noticed that in a number of posts in recent weeks that people have made comments, telling people that they were mentally ill purely on the basis of something that they had written. I made no comment because it was in the context of specific interactions, but I was thinking that people should not be throwing labels around in such a way. Mental health problems involve careful diagnosis and, even though the antipsychiatry movement is out of date, I believe that the way people are diagnosed is an area which involves critical interpretation.

    Leaving that aside, I think that the relationship between mental health and philosophy involves the link between how our ideas affect our intimately. I am sure that there is research on the topic but, based on my experience of working in mental health, part of the problem of that, as people, we view ourselves in frameworks of ideas connected to our experiences. In times of heightened stress, these ideas may become exacerbated in the struggle to make sense of life. Also, the quest for finding ideas which make sense can involve a lot of stress.

    However, based on my observations, I have seen people getting unwell, and I am speaking of their experience not diagnosis, when their ideas become incredibly overwhelming, especially if they lack other people to discuss the worries which they have. But, I have known people experience this on account of their engagement with religious philosophies or other ones, including but not specifically nihilism.

    I also would say that mental health problems is likely involve many factors, including genetics, but it does seem that philosophy comes into the picture in the way people interpret their own mental states. But, this is such a big area beyond the scope of this thread, especially in considering the way people interpret aspects of psychotic experiences.
  • 'What Are We?' What Does it Mean to be Human?

    I have just realised that I have replied to the majority of people who have written comments to my thread post and I had left you out.I thank you for your contribution, and your writing style and angle is always is so unique, speaking more from intuition.
  • 'What Are We?' What Does it Mean to be Human?

    Actually, even though I use the term we fairly often I can't really say that I feel any real connection with 'we'. I suppose that I use the term to speak of being part of humanity, but in practice I don't really feel any collective sense of belonging. In the real world, it often seems like war between the many competing egos.
  • The Red Zones Of Philosophy (Philosophical Dangers)

    If you look at my thread on What Are We, I have just written a post a few minutes ago about how far people go in personal morality in relation to the authenticity.

    But, in relation to the topic of getting in danger due to ideas I do see it as a real danger. I do take my reading and exploration of ideas very seriously, so I try to steer clear of philosophical dangers, and I wonder how many other people on this site, or in life generally, that this issue applies to as well.
  • 'What Are We?' What Does it Mean to be Human?

    Your comment relates to the context in which I viewed and thought about the painting of Gaugin earlier this week. It was in an article called, Art & Morality: A Bittersweet Symphony' by Jessica Logue in 'Philosophy Now' (April/ May 2021) It was looking at the relationship between art and personal morality. Despite showing the painting by Gaugin, there was only passing reference to him but looked at judgements we make about art and its relation to the personal lives of those who created it.

    One of the people it focuses upon is Kurt Cobain, the singer from Nirvana, who killed himself. It asks how we view his life and suicide in connection with his artistic legacy. The author is asking to what extent can certain lifestyles and acts be justified in the context of the artistic and creative process?

    I would definitely not go as far as your suggestion that Gaugin was a 'monster'. I don't know enough about his life to be able to say that why he left his wife and children. But, my intuition is that there was probably something really wrong in the marriage to lead him to make that decision. But, I think that the topic of how authenticity is played out in the artistic pursuit is important to ask. We can ask to what extent the artistic pursuit be followed above all else? How far should one go?
  • 'What Are We?' What Does it Mean to be Human?

    I am replying to others' response and please don't think that I am ignoring yours. I just need to think about it, so I will get back to you in a day or two, because I am trying to think how I see Plato's ideas and, I am reading Plotinus currently.
  • 'What Are We?' What Does it Mean to be Human?

    I admit that I sometimes reflect on your set of questions: What do I want? What am I doing? and Who Am I? When you was a teenager I used to spend so much time dwelling on who am I and I remember going to a church youth club day event on the topic. Identity construction was so central and I can remember wearing badges of all my favourite rock bands. What am I doing is a question I frequently ask myself still. I do think that it is worth asking what do I want because it is possible to act blindly without enough attention to one's real intent. I do find that the clearer I am in my focus helps some kind of pursuit of goals because I have found that sometimes if I am not aware of what I really want I get such a random assortment of life experiences

    Your goals are connected to ego concerns and I think we have to be aware of them. I think that Gaugin's goals are important for reflection too, but I am inclined to spend a lot of time reflecting. I think it is possible to spend too much time reflecting. I am also aware that I am better at reflection after events than reflection in action.
  • 'What Are We?' What Does it Mean to be Human?

    So you are not impressed by Gaugin's painting or his title? Art is so subjective and, even the way we form questions too. All I can do is offer a brief summary of the way his title questions work for me. The question is where we come from offers a neat little enquiry into origins, allowing for the scope of the debate between the religious and the scientists. The second one, which I chose to focus on, and I cut out the rest of my title, is about looking at one it means to be a human being. This is about how we work, mind and body and how we are significant in the world and the universe. The final one of where we are going is looking at the future, and it allows for the the consideration of what we do to the planet.

    Of course, I am not saying that his title is some kind of model. I only brought it to the forum because it throws 3 questions together. My discussion began with a more detailed discussion of progress. However, I am aware that this is being debated in the science thread. If that thread and one other thread on nature had not been going I might have chosen to try to develop this area further. But, I am specifically interested in trying to think about what it means to be human, so I have tried to develop the thread in that way.

    I realise that the questions may interest some forum members and not others. I don't know how much further the thread will go, or in which way, so really I just keep an open mind for any potential areas of debate and dialogue it may stimulate.
  • 'What Are We?' What Does it Mean to be Human?

    I think that ideas of how to see the universe and consciousness are beginning to see human beings more in terms of self organisation of consciousness, as argued by one writer on this site@Pop has suggested. This is in contrast to metaphysical systems which began from objective principles outside our own consciousness.

    In particular, I do think that Plato's analogy of the cave was useful for expressing the way in which we are seeing illusionary shadows of reality rather than reality itself. However, I think that one potential fault of this was that it still encourages the idea of looking for objective reality outside of consciousness, rather than starting from the processes of our own consciousness.
  • 'What Are We?' What Does it Mean to be Human?

    Thanks for providing a link to Gauguin's picture in your post.
  • 'What Are We?' What Does it Mean to be Human?

    I am not sure about the actual construction of metaphysics any longer. I think that when I first began thinking about philosophy, which was before I began questioning the existence of God, my own starting point for my own argument was from thinking about God. During my experience of questioning religious beliefs, I began thinking from a psychological point of view. I began to frame my own thoughts around actual supernatural entities.

    Nowadays, I have not adopted the view that there is nothing beyond human beings and empirical reality but just think that it is hard to establish with any certainty. I do believe that this has been seen by many thinkers. Kant recognised the role of intuition, but as A J Ayer, points out, we need to go beyond intuition, with rational explanations. One way of doing this can be through a priori principles , and Ayer points to possible creation of tautologies.

    So, my understanding of human beings and our knowledge comes with certain reservations. This applies to the idea of Plato's theory of forms. I do believe that the cave metaphor is useful for pointing to the way we don't have direct access to the knowledge. But, that is not to say that they don't exist, and I do believe that we can probably see a parallel between the idea of the forms and Jung's ideas about archetypes. The archetypes are manifested in dreams and the enfoldment of our life dramas, so, for this reason the symbolic dimensions of our existence are important, and are probably easier to speak about than any objective metaphysical reality.
  • The Red Zones Of Philosophy (Philosophical Dangers)

    It is worth considering whether the question of nihilism is a position or a journey through, and I think that can vary. What I wrote the post I was thinking about some discussions I had on this site in January. One of these people was clearly coming from the standpoint of defending nihilism as a philosophical position. However, he saw it as not being a source for feeling miserable but as a foundation from which to build a creative life. I did feel that this took me on a little journey into that dimension rather than leading me to the point where I would say I actually felt that I saw it as my own position.

    But, I do think that this all depends on how we view out searching, and possibly how concretely we take the ideas which we are thinking about. I do find that it is very easy to get very caught up in a particular point of view where it can almost feel like it is a reality. Fortunately, I do shift around in my thinking, and this prevents me getting too locked into any one. However, I do believe that can happen because I have seen people who really do get drawn into a view where it can become so strong.

    I think that the original context of me using the phrase 'psychology danger' in discussions with @Madfool a couple of days ago was about thinking error, but, then, we revisited it and expanded it a bit yesterday, and, here, in this thread he has expressed it mainly as the psychological danger of how people can come to harm or peril through engagement with ideas. I do believe that it is possible for people to become absorbed in certain philosophies, such as nihilism, where this could happen. But, this would probably depend on other factors in a person's life. It would probably be easier for someone to be joyful in embracing nihilism if their social and material conditions are comfortable rather than if someone was struggling financially and lacking in social support.
  • 'What Are We?' What Does it Mean to be Human?

    I think that many people do go through life so unconsciously and that the way forward is to try to become more aware. But, it can be a painful path and just in recent discussions which I have been having with @Madfool, I have been speaking of the philosophical danger. Just now, he has started a thread on this and I have just responded within that one, speaking of how we can feel that certain philosophical outlooks can make us see ourselves as being of absolutely no significant at all. I believe that your own view is that we can move from this, to creating meaningful existence.

    I see it as a complex and delicate art. Out own lives may come in all forms with a mixture of pleasure and pain. How do we make sense of these? I think that it does need to involve a sense of authenticity, or genuineness. We do have to try to face facts of existence philosophically. As you and others realise, I have asked questions about philosophical mysteries. I didn't find any real answers and I am not sure that I ever really expected any, because if they could be found, I am sure that the philosophers would have discovered them long ago.

    Personally, I do believe that it is so hard to establish any real metaphysical certainties. This can lead into two possible opposing directions. We can get to the point where we believe that there is nothing beyond us, or we can go into mystic flights of fantastic dreams. However, it may be a whole realm of possibilities. We may believe that there are no supernatural powers beyond us, but still enter into fantasy in the form of fictive fantasy, but with an awareness that it is indeed fictive.

    One other possibility is of looking for what Aldous Huxley spoke of as 'A Perennial Philosophy', which is more a way of looking at the overview of recurrent themes, underlying various quests, which looks at these, but in a very neutral manner, rather than with an emphasis on establishing these as actual metaphysical facts.
  • The Red Zones Of Philosophy (Philosophical Dangers)

    I am interested to see that you are developing the idea of philosophical dangers and related phenomena. I also found it interesting that you bring in the philosophy of nihilism. I can remember engaging with someone on the topic of nihilism a few months ago on this forum, and felt it was such a dead end of thought that on the next day I didn't wish to get out of bed. I just lay there feeling so miserable. However, I was aware that the person who was communicating with me did not feel that the philosophers of nihilism was a source for potential depression.

    I am sure that many people see balance between philosophies of nothingness and those of flights into exhilaration as the most ideal. However, it is may not be that simple. We live in a Prozac culture, in which if we experience feelings of emptiness and flatness, and even suicidal despair, we may go to our GPs, possibly with no one else to turn to. Within minutes a prescription may be written out for Prozac, or one of the newer, potentially more powerful antidepressants, like Mirtazapine. We may even be given contact numbers for crisis lines, go home and take pills.

    But, does this swallowing of pills really address the philosophy quest? Is it our views of the world which are leading us down what The Nine Inch Nails album, 'The Downward Spiral'. We live in the aftermath of the existentialism of Nietzsche, the broken down sense of meaning of postmodernism. We may sit at home, with or without pills to make us feel more cheerful, not knowing how to make life more bearable, reading philosophy books, and it is possible that we may still only find ones which make us feel even less significant in the grand scheme of life. I think that the danger zone of philosophy is probably that which ends up saying that we count for absolutely nothing.
  • 'What Are We?' What Does it Mean to be Human?

    I agree that the painting is lovely. I googled the image but it is a copyright, so I don't think it could be put on this site. Also, I don't upload at the moment, I just use this site to write. So, I should just recommend that people reading the thread look up the image. But, I do love art and making it.
  • 'What Are We?' What Does it Mean to be Human?

    I see thread discussions as experiments. Some work better than others. I do try to develop them in such a way that they come together in a way which work as being readable for people who log into the thread. However, interaction on this forum is an unusual arena of discussion, and apart from engaging in writing, each of us comes away with different results in our own thinking experience, and I am sure that this is so variable.
  • 'What Are We?' What Does it Mean to be Human?

    I keep an open mind towards various contemplative approaches. I am trying to be careful about metaphysics at the moment though, because it is so easy to end up thinking in a convoluted way. I read as widely as possible, and sometimes try and read too many different, contrasting Ideas at the same time. So, I am trying to achieve a certain amount of clarity, and trying to untie philosophical knots. I believe that this is important in our development of ideas, otherwise it may be like trying to paint pictures with brushes which have been left soaking in dirty water.
  • 'What Are We?' What Does it Mean to be Human?

    I do think that answering the question of what are we is important, but I don't think that it is easy. So, I see it as being more of a topic for reflection. I am hoping that in this thread, through collaboration discussion that certain themes and ideas may emerge. I see it as a topic for philosophy discussion, but one which can draw from many disciplines of thought.
  • In praise of science.

    Your question of whether I blame science for nuclear weapons and climate change is interesting. I don't think I do. It probably comes down to blaming humanity, whether it is for developments in religion or science.

    I think sure that I go back into loops at times, after I appear to have already moved on in thinking. If I look at what I have written and edit it, I sometimes notice certain tangents. This happens more if I am writing under time pressure and in several threads in one day. But, I do think I was have some inconsistencies in my thinking and part of the reason why I engage in philosophy is to try to smooth these out, and I see it as an ongoing process.

    I come from a religious background, which I have questioned, but I am not an actual atheist. I keep an open mind. You speak of the whole question of turning to religion or science and that is interesting because I do have friends who are religious and tell me to pray. I remember last year when the pandemic began that one of my friends said that we are at the end times, as described by the Bible. I think that there are a lot of people who do believe that we are. While I am not religious, I grew up thinking we were and, at times, I do notice such ideas coming into my head. But, generally my outlook does incorporate science, but I try to be take a wide multidisciplinary approach.

    One thought which I have just thought is whether Banno, or other writers on this site are taking science to be mainly the physical sciences, or to include the social sciences too? I am not sure that it matters entirely, although if the social sciences are included that means more of a critical analysis perspective.
  • 'What Are We?' What Does it Mean to be Human?

    I realise that philosophy is so different from soap operas and light entertainment. Bearing in mind that you think that I am probably focusing on the wrong question, I am wondering what do you see as the importance ones which we can benefit from exploring?
  • In praise of science.

    I began using the term philosophical danger during discussion with you on one of your threads and I think that you saw it like a movie, often with a girl going somewhere she should not go. You also spoke of cats' 9 lives and wondering if you had used yours. I wonder how many lives we have on the forum and whether there are threads where we should not go. I also see dangers as being related to untying philosophical knots, and like being in a Celtic maze or labyrinth.
  • Can the philosophical mysteries be solved at all?

    It does seem that certain experiences seem to be too harsh to make much sense of as a learning curve of experience. Actually, there have been times when I have found people suggesting that certain experiences should be seen in that way as being a bit too much. But, however we interpret our experiences, it does seem that there is a lot of suffering. Also, it does appear that some have more to endure than others. I think that the worst thing is when people have difficult experiences repeatedly, with hardly any break.

    Also, we are taken aback by lockdowns etc, so I don't know how most of us would cope with situations like in Palestine. I don't think that I would cope very well. As it is, I wake up wondering what emails I will find, and I often get thrown off course by little stresses, which I build up in my mind.
  • 'What Are We?' What Does it Mean to be Human?

    It seems to me that some people get to the point where they ask such questions, as what are we, and others don't. For those who can't relate to this kind of question, I am sure it does seem like a load of waffle. But, I find so many soap operas and aspects of entertainment others enjoy to be a load of waffle. Even on this site, I see threads which are very popular which I can't get into at all. It just shows how we vary so much.
  • If nothing is wrong, then there are no problems to be solved (Poll)

    Yes, we're both still in there. I sometimes do try to take breaks from the forum, but I do find that if I haven't got a thread going I feel that something is missing. However, that is probably because of life in lockdowns. There is a lot of easing in England at the moment, but it does seem that the Indian variant is increasingly in England at the moment.

    I don't know how the pandemic and lockdown restrictions are where you are. But, we are not used to all of this. If we have to have any more lockdowns I don't know how many will cope. In some ways, I believe that I have felt able to cope, because I love reading and writing. But, probably some people have really struggled, especially if they don't like spending any time alone. If anything, I am getting so used to being alone that I worry how I will cope with going to social events again. But, if there are more lockdowns, I think that it will bring so much poverty. It is definitely a big challenge, whether we view it as being the course of nature or not.
  • 'What Are We?' What Does it Mean to be Human?

    One idea which I have come across in relation to your idea of us living almost unconscious is a view that we need to become more awake, as suggested by some writers, including Guirdjieff. He spoke of how a lot of people live in an almost robotic level. I think that many people do not even stop and consider the question of what are we? Perhaps, philosophy can be a form of helping us to become more consciously aware, because it involves critical discourse and looking behind the surfaces of day to day experiences.
  • 'What Are We?' What Does it Mean to be Human?

    Suicide is indeed an interesting philosophical issue. I have experienced suicidal thoughts, but don't think that I would ever do it. However, I had 3 friends who committed suicide, 2 while I was at university and 1 a couple of years later, so this lead me to think about the nature of suicide. None of them told me that they were suicidal and there does seem to be a lot of truth in the idea that the people who are really planning to kill themselves don't talk about it.

    The experience of having 3 friends commit suicide was one of the main reasons why I chose to train in psychiatric nursing, partly because I thought that the training would be useful in case I had any future suicidal friends. While working in nursing I have come across many suicidal people, and often when people were seen as a suicidal risk they used to be observed at arms length, night and day. I have known a couple of people who were observed in this way for many months, or even a year. Often, the individuals did not feel that this addressed the issue of their suicidal feelings, and some wished to talk to staff members observing them while others didn't.

    Apart from medication, a lot of people do seek therapy for suicidal feelings, and it does seem that art therapy is an intervention which some people find to be useful. This may be because the people can explore the dark depths through art.

    But, I am definitely of the belief that it is helpful to live with the dark depths. One of my favourite albums is 'Darklands' by The Jesus and Mary Chain, because it is just so cathartic. I do like dark fiction too. I know some people who think that it is best to avoid such territories, but, even though they may try to, it doesn't always mean that they can always do so. Of course, there are probably a lot of people who don't ever encounter such territories, because life gives them constant joy. They are very lucky, but I can definitely relate to Camus's 'The Myth of Sysphisus', and another book which I find to be a very worthwhile read is Alvarez's, 'The Savage God', which looks at suicide in literature. Nietzsche's is also very relevant too.
  • 'What Are We?' What Does it Mean to be Human?

    I don't understand what you mean by saying that we come from space. Perhaps, you can explain your idea a little bit further.
  • In praise of science.

    I have already said that I am not against science and really I am not sure of the point the thread is even trying to make, because it is not as if it is being opposed by loads of evangelists who are trying to argue that evolution is false.

    On this site, there seems to be a big divide between those who believe in God and those who are atheists. However, I don't think that this would simply be about those who believe in God being against science and atheists favouring science. The relationship between science and religion is complex. Of course, some religious believers were opposed to science. Also, religious ideas have often contributed to political ideologies, but these probably incorporated science. We all use science everyday in most aspects of life, in ways we take for granted.

    But science is such an umbrella term, and I don't really feel that we need to praise science because it does not require us to do so, like we were taught to revere and worship God. But, I appreciate medical science and a lot of comforts connected to technological progress.
  • Can the philosophical mysteries be solved at all?

    I think that I am more at that point now and this thread was created about 6 weeks ago, but it has not fizzled out completely. My latest thread, especially the posts written this afternoon are a fairer reflection of my current thoughts on metaphysics.
  • Can the philosophical mysteries be solved at all?

    Cultural bias does fit into the picture, in relation to our beliefs. For example, I was raised as a Catholic, and even though I have questioned these ideas a lot, I am aware that such ideas do still affect the way I am inclined to think about many aspects of philosophy.
  • In praise of science.

    Let's hope that the scientists address the problems before it is too late. But, I don't think that we should sing any hymns of praise for them until there is a certain amount of evidence that the ideas are being put into practice with substantive effects.