However, within the span (scope) of the time where we exist, and within our lives, we act and behave in a manner that is not deterministic but is probable. This localized behavior of our agency is probabilistic in nature and is what we call free will. — hume

Yes, life is waveforms of habits (probabilistic behavior), as well as choice/creativity (redirection of actions). This is what everyone does and recognizes. It describes the act of learning any skill, but most especially the arts. However, back in human history, some philosophers and scientists, without any evidence or substantiation, just decided to create a mythology that life is equivalent to billiard balls. One can guess that their motivation was no different from clerics in all history. As outlandish as such a story may be, it actually took root in education, just as similar stories took root in Churches. Such is the nature of the human mind. I doubt even a roach could bear such tales.

Whether or not Nostradamus is correct is matter of what story you wish to believe. It's a matter of concocting a story.

Nostradamus predicts he and his buddy will eat a black pig. The host chooses to oblige. Everyone is happy.

Humans can be very creative with explanations for anything. Mythology never dies. Just changes in form. You can believe the bowling ball story or the marionette story, or whatever variation you wish. That the beauty of being human. Enormous creativity.

Everything is also compatible with God. You believe that physics is deterministic. One chooses what one wishes to believe. That's life.

No. It feels that way and there is no reason to create a mythology that says otherwise, whatever one wishes to call the Original Maker. But many people can, and do, choose to believe in determinism/fatalism for whatever personal reason. Their choice.

There is zero evidence that physics is deterministic. By all accounts, it is probabilistic. However, you can believe so if you wish. That is what makes life interesting.

I didn't make an argument that there is choice. On the contrary, I stated they is no way of knowing one way or the other. It is just a personal, spiritual decision that one makes on how they wish to think of their life. Some picture themselves as bowling balls, others as marionettes, and others as personal creators. We are all actors on this earth, playing roles.

If we are making choices, then we have meaning.

Yes, I feel like I am choosing as does pretty much every human being. So why the mythology of determinism? There is no substantiation for it. It's just a story. Just continue having a life making choices that are one's own. No reason to believe otherwise.

Evidence? It could just be that the insight is a result of atoms bumping into each other. — khaled

Of course. One can choose to believe any story they wish.

You choose to be a balling ball thrown by the Maker.

I choose to be a Creator making choices.

In life, we all make choices, and we learn from them.

What do you mean it matters that you go to a doctor????

It's already Determined. There is no choice.

Determinism is a form of fatalism. The only difference is the name given to the Maker.

Why does an outcome being determined make it meaningless? — InPitzotl

Just another form of fatalism.

And new insight does not classify as “outcome”? Outcome of years of research and dedication maybe? — khaled

The insight is the result of a choice by the mind to explore, to learn something new, to create a new idea, and with whom to share it. It is the choice that gives meaning. Otherwise one is just a bowling ball colliding with pins because the Maker [the Big Bang] made all of the decisions at that point in time. The Big Bang gets credit for everything.

It's a series of meaningless, pre-determined outcomes. At least give yourself a Heaven and Hell.

And in your model someone discovering something is not an outcome? — khaled

Exactly. It is new insight. Your life is totally meaningless. Enjoy it.

I1) can't answer your first question, until you decide the laws of nature in scientific terms, mathematical terms.

2) Again you refer to them laws of nature. I am not familiar with any such less in science.

It seems all of your questions and concerns revolve around the laws of nature. As far as I know, science does not use such a term because it is too ambiguous. A concrete definition of this term will allow the discussion to proceed.

a surprising number. Including me. — khaled

Then understanding the real situation, I imagine you don't put to much effort into convincing other people otherwise. We are all captives? What's more, Nobel Prizes are somewhat ludicrous, under these circumstances. Essentially, utterances and discoveries have no meaning beyond being an outcome. Pretty interesting, don't you think?

Who here on this forum is willing to say that their beautiful philosophical musings are merely the result of deterministic collisions of molecule? (Quantum waves).

Don't confuse "we", the corporatist-government, with "I". The two are quite different with totally different agendas. The first is all about power, control, money. The second is who we are as individuals.

The dehumanization impact of technology. It began when science started to treat humans as computerized robots. Humans have lost their way and meaning. Now it is all about debt, consumption, and serving the ownership class. Humanity is lost in the wilderness. Do you want to change direction? Forget about consumption and turn your eyes toward care and kindness. The technological world cannot survive in a world of human emotions. It is dead. We are alive.

There was an experiment performed that the researchers concluded demonstrated that quantum probabilistic behavior (it's not random) is intrinsic to the universe, and there are no hidden variables. However, I try to refrain from using the latest scientific thinking in what amounts to a question about how one chooses to lead one's life. Scientists are overwhelming on the side of non-determinism, as evidenced by the enormous number of awards they bestow on themselves for their individual accomplishments. Actions speak louder than words.

Ultimately, it is a spiritual question of how one views life and treats life.

Science tells you what you should do, and philosophy tells you what you can do.

And your mind chose to post the question on this forum and now is choosing how to respond. Your mind is a wonderful. Admire yourself and what you choose to do with your life.

Believe what you want to believe. You can always create any mythology you wish. There is no way to prove or disprove that you have a choice. But if you believe that you have no choice, then don't take personal credit for any accomplishment. You did nothing.

Why do you have a choice? Because, the mind create things and it chooses what it wishes to create. You created a question for this forum by choice. You can now choose what you wish to believe. Certainly, don't believe scientists who give themselves awards for their personal achievements. That's awkward.

There are causes, a choice, an an action.

Yes, it is.

Determinism is a belief. There is no scientific basis for it. Believe what you choose to believe.

Do you find it rather odd that these same deterministic scientists award themselves Nobel Prizes for their achievements? Examine the hypocrisy of their actions and don't be concerned with their totally fabricated mythology. There is no way to prove or disprove determinism, so live as you choose. You are trying to make a choice, aren't you?

It's actually the opposite.

There is no way to prove or disprove that life has choice. However, if you believe that you have no choice, then you don't and just let things happen. Believing that you have a choice makers life more interesting. BTW, you do have a choice.

Consciousness has no boundaries. That consciousness resides in the brain is antiquated, as even science now admits to a gut-brain connection. Cells are intelligent and constantly adapting. As we speak, they are learning how to cope with the Covid virus. They have memory such as "muscle memory". Intelligence permeates the universe as waves and there are no boundaries. What's more, the memory of this intelligence never dies. It lives forever, like the light of a star.

In my philosophy I only have one life, so I'd better get moving on it right now! :wink: — GLEN willows

Inhibits quiet enjoyment.

And I said that when the baby grows up she/he may not have as much time to do those things. Anyway I feel like I've beaten it to death now, cheers. — GLEN willows

Make something out of Life. And if not this one, the next.

Doing what? — GLEN willows

What I said is the purpose of life.

At least some of those things require a (privileged?) life free from a draining job, and crushing debt. Some people don;t have the luxury to do those things. That's my point. And kids are great, but if you have any you know that it can leave you little time for going on philosophy forums (I have none). — GLEN willows

Not at all. A baby is doing it in a crib.

So people who haven't got time for those things, who have 3 jobs, 2 1/5 kids and crushing debt, have no purpose? — GLEN willows

That is what they are doing.

No it isn't — Darkneos

To create, explore, share, enjoy is to create warmth like a Shining Star. The opposite is a cold, dark, Black Hole.

The only liberty that we have is to have a thought. What we're losing is the ability to express that thought. Fear suppresses.

Before deciding on the purpose of human life it seems we have to decide if the universe is here to serve Man's needs or does Man exist to serve the universal necessity of our universe? — Nikolas

One doesn't serve the other. It is continuous and whole. It creates and shares as waves.

You can't will happiness. Happiness happens as does sadness. It is the way we experience something special in our lives. Sort of like bold type.

The purpose of life is precisely this thread,: to create, to explore, to share, to enjoy.

Life is about survival. — Relativist

Sounds very limited and boring. Try taking an art class or dance class and enjoy life!

How do you know that earthworms have rudimentary awareness? From what I can tell, humans seem to be at the bottom of the totem pole, having very limited awareness. Just observe how little awareness people (especially scientists) have about the nature of Life, proclaiming it a batch of chemicals? It's laughable to consider humans anything more that consumption creatures with nothing more on their mind than the next thing to consume.