but how cant we ever have a true theory of everything if we can get out hands on the ultimate substrate? — Gregory

Maybe it is not as complicated and mysterious as humans would like it to be. It's like an incredible magic trip, which when revealed is amazingly simple but say the same time destroys the awe of magic. We enjoy the mysterious but simplicity also has its own wonder. Just observe. It's right there.

Consider this, why after eons of evolution would an inanimate thing called a molecule (in actuality a undescribable quantum waves) want to drink a can of Pepsi or Coke, much less delay drinking it? And why would molecules or quantum waves forms want to steal from each other?

All Determinism has done is squish all human traits, attributes, and definitions into a single cell and called it a Human Cell. It says nothing and solves nothing other than move the definition of a human life from metaphysicians to (pseudo) science. Shrug.

There is nothing: at times of sleep when the Mind
(Dao) is totally at rest.

There is something: when there Mind (Dao) is busy creating.

Sleep/Awake

Life/Death

It's cyclical as is everything in Life.

Why does the Mind/Dao exist? In our plane of existence, we can only know it, not see see it as a whole. Maybe some can see more.

There is nothing mysterious, but that people feel that the question is pointless, does lady bare the laziness of some Minds.

I perfer philosophy to religion. — Athena

I have no love for either institutionalized form of thinking, preferring to think for myself as to my own spiritual/philosophical approach to life. However, as institutions, both fighting over the same turf, organized religion does create a formidable opponent for science, both providing checks on the other. Science may claim the education institutions but religion has the churches, both providing pulpits for their own brand of thinking.

That is what happened! The 1958 National Defense Education Act, changed the purpose of education and those who are in control of it. Now our republic is as perverted as the republic of Germany that lead to Hitler and this is so because the US adopted the German model of bureaucracy that shifts power and authority away from the individual to the state, and we adopted the German model of education that goes with the bureaucratic change. If the population were aware of what happened and why it happened and how it happened, there is a chance we could save our democracy and make it even better than it was. Only when our democracy is defended in the classroom is it defended, and that is NOT education for a technology society with unknown values!

PS to clarify, the Act replaced our liberal education (starting with the first day of school) with education for technology for industrial and military purpose. As military leaders took over Rome, so have they taken over the US, and even if we threw every weapon in the ocean we would still be an industrial-military complex, not the democracy with liberty we defended in two world wars. — Athena

I agree. And the "truth" of scientific materialism propaganda is a prime example. Humans are no more than machines and are expendable. Thankfully, there is resistance to this way of viewing life, mostly coming from religious quarters since both are fighting for the same turf.

Democracy and liberty are dependent on education — Athena

Unfortunately, education can also be co-opted and then it becomes propaganda. Are you confident that the education to received has not been coopted? Is this the place to find truths?

Also, while you see the questions of truth in an emotional and subjective light, I do believe that the majority of thinkers, religious or scientific, see themselves as striving for objective truth. — Jack Cummins

Looking for objective truths can be a nice hobby that fills time but is much like a donkey trying to eat the carrot that is in front but always just out of reach. Camus' The Myth of Sisyphus comes to mind. Finding joy in the relentless but unattainable.

We have truths inside of us. They will guide us in our journey through this life and the next.

I do wonder if I am if I am the only person on the forum who has explored the territory between materialist science and other alternatives — Jack Cummins

Given that scientists have multiple positions on almost every topic, and given that scientists are constantly changing their position on almost every topic, I cannot view them as a source of "truths". This is apart from the real life experience of teachers and professors presenting certain ideas as truths, merely for the convenience of being to apply grades to students.

On the otherworld, some religions do profess to provide paths to truths, though they too daughter from the same ailment as science, that is constantly changing and contradictory truths.

As for myths, they tell us all about something that lies within ourselves. Artifacts from our beginnings. Address these truths. If we can see them, maybe so.

So what is the source of truths? I guess at that center point in each own's heart.

"This above all: to thine own self be true."

I’m not saying fun is not good for you, I’m saying I can’t find any way to see it as the meaning to life. — Brett

Then search for your own meaning and I hope you enjoy doing it!

Fine. Just don’t tell me it’s the meaning of life. — Brett

Well, I just did, but if course you can live any kind of life you choose. I know lots of people who deny themselves fun and get very depressed. It takes lots of effort to keep oneself from having any fun.

First of all fun is a very subjective term. Secondly we can be happy and unhappy, maybe in equal measure. Does that mean that unhappiness is the meaning of life? — Brett

Of course. Everyone has fun in their own way.

Unhappiness gives us happiness. It's cyclical. Without unhappiness, we wouldn't have happiness. Isn't the Universe a wonder?

You might be confusing satisfaction with meaning. — Brett

They are the same. Life isn't really that complicated. People enjoy having fun and maybe a good laugh now and then.

Can that really be all to the meaning of life? We’re here just to have fun? — Brett

Pretty much. To learn about ourselves and our universe, and have fun doing it. The alternative is boredom and possibly depression.

I can understand that someone might go to another country and take photos of unusual cultures or locations and then that person brings them home to show others how the world is different out there. But that’s not what you’re saying. You’re saying just the act of taking photos gives meaning to life. But I don’t see how. — Brett

Visit a photography forum and observe what they are discussing.

Are you having fun in your life?

Do you think you need a camera to do this? — Brett

A camera adds additional dimensions.

It’s seems to me that you think the meaning to life is just doing things. We study, we learn, we create new things. For what purpose? — Brett

Because it is interesting and enjoyable. Ask an astronomer or mathematician about the enjoyment of learning or discovery.. Ask an athlete or a dancer. Or ask me? Really, it's fun! The emotion of fun?

If you go to take a photograph then you go to a place that already exists. Instead of sitting and being part of it you instead take some photos. Why?
a — Brett

To see something in a new way and share this insight we others, if you wish.

One does not study photography like one studies philosophy. What do you learn from photography? — Brett

Of course one does. Every skill requires study. There are differences of course, but the process of gradual accumulation of knowledge is the same.

So that’s the meaning of life? — Brett

Pretty much. We study, we learn, we experiment, we create new things. All of this is happening all of the time, and it is quite enjoyable to learn more about ourselves and the universe we live in.

You’ll need to explain that. — Brett

One studies photography just like one studies philosophy, and you learn something new.

How? — Brett

By study.

What is everyone doing? — Brett

Learning and evolving (changing). It's called evolution.

How do you know that’s the meaning for life? — Brett

Just observe what everyone is doing.

How does photography do it? — Brett

Photography teaches how to look at the world differently, and when you look at it differently you see me things. You get "new eyes".

The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes, but in having new eyes. [Proust]

Photography can do this, eating food, breathing the air? — Brett

Of course. We learn from everything we do. Constantly.

And what would it’s meaning be? — Brett

To learn, to grow, to evolve. That is what we we are all doing.

Such as — Brett

How about taking up photography and enjoying what you see?

Find a place to live, try to enjoy the food and air, and then have some fun in your life. Even those who are struggling the most, and there are 10s of millions of them, take time out to enjoy time with friends and family.

So life doesn’t have to be about competition or survival, but for who? — Brett

Living is not about living, it is about what you do with your life. I wonder what people, who believe the life is only about trying to continue to live, are doing with their lives? It must be a very boring life. Maybe even depressive? How about doing something with your life so it has some meaning?

Luckily, one can observe the shadows of the Dao by looking at its etchings.



Look closely, and you'll see the description of Creation, from Wuji to Taiji. It even explains why?

Indeed life is. From the outside its survival, comfort seeking, and finding entertainment. From the first person its dealing with situations. Dealing with getting through the manueverings of a society and existence itself. Doesnt matter if its an office, driving on a slippery highway, a coal mine, overcoming boredom, finding meaning in something, reading, hunting,gathering, hut building, dancing around the tribal fire, natural disasters,pandemics, other peoples actions, drinking, mental illness, getting warmer, cooler, finding the best product for your needs, debating metaphysics, watching a mo ie,playing a game, looking up information on the internet, eating, shitting, wiping, flushing, sewers, journals, cities, buildings, farming, war, religion, one upsmanship, laundry, chores, relationships, articles cleaning tour dwelling and living area... — schopenhauer1

Try learning a new sport or art.

By default living requires survival, — schopenhauer1

But default, living is about dying.

Life is about survival. — Philosophim

Too limiting.

Natural selection? From where did this come from. All I see is variety. Everyone having their own ideas on how to live.

I find fulfillment in creation, not destruction.

New eyes.

But why do you think, and what exactly are you? I bet you are a different person today then you were 5 years ago, or 10, 20, 30, etc....years ago. — Pop

Why do we think? That is a different question. Probably to create something new was opposed to not thinking and being absolutely stagnant - and bored.

We are an accumulation of all of our experiences, both at a micro and macro level. So yes, We think, therefore we are.

I think therefore I am. — Pop

No interpretation is necessary. It is exactly as stated.

I hope that you are right because I am wishing to touch upon and create new ideas. My belief about philosophy is that it should embrace, rather than criticize, creativity. — Jack Cummins

I am most certainly correct. The fun is in finding them or creating them.

"The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes, but in having new eyes." [Proust]

So what is the scope for original possibilities and are there questions which have not been touched upon at all. Or are we coming to a dead end in this post postmodern era. — Jack Cummins

New ideas are everywhere, but possibly not in academia they are slow to gestate because of its inertial nature. Academia tends to follow not lead. I always marvel at new techniques that are applied to magic tricks. Original thoughts come forth from our innate ability to create something new.

But 1 and 2 are identical in that both are awareness of the external world and of oneself. Ergo, to think that there's something extra - consciousness - — TheMadFool

Consciousness is the awareness not the images. It is what continues between the state of unconscious and conscious, as those who become conscious are aware of who they once were.

As for Dennet, why is he and others trying so hard to be a famous nothing. Doesn't he realize that he's nothing but an continuous accident? And why does he even bother writing of he can see past the veil of illusion? Doesn't he see the meaningless of his life? A life of continuous denial. Must be quite empty.

It could be information from past lives or it could be thoughts themselves that already exist on another plane of being that is partially tapped into at a young age. — Thinking

It is possible, but the major idea is that memory continues through the Small Sleep and the Big Sleep. This is what defines the individual as being and this is how we know ourselves as individuals.