Interesting. So, the heart valve complications and issues with heart disease can' be mitigated in any way?

Nevermind, I don't know where you're going with this. Just spill the beans already!

Oh, I don't see it a pejorative? I mean, men do populate prisons (not only the US) moreso than women do.

Rather it's the manipulation of images of the desirability of specific gender traits in order to sell stuff that is the issue. — Banno

Well, that is de facto the definition of objectification. Or at least applied objectification.

How so? — Banno

Well, two wrongs don't really make a right, so calling the objectification of females by all males wouldn't constitute only a pot-kettle analogy but a gross overgeneralization too.

One does these things unconsciously, though, as their aptly called biases.

This is the male parallel of shaming the female body to sell stuff. Bring in all that feminist critique thereof and apply it here. — Banno

All true; but, isn't that the kettle calling the pot back?

This thread should be deleted, OP is either trolling or stupid. Much like most of his threads really. — Judaka

How so? I didn't mean to troll. Maybe it comes out somehow; but, you can't deny the facts presented in the OP, which is the point being made here.

You live the life of my cat, which is a nice life if you're a cat. — Hanover

I am a pig, so I digress.
A happy and content pig nonetheless.

Your attempt to describe yourself as simply shiftless seems trollish, as if it's motivated by some desire to evoke annoyance by those who adhere to traditional views of responsibility and conscientiousness. — Hanover

Well, I have no money to go and move out, am disabled as you noted aptly, and like my abode, so I'm not screaming or whining.

You have told us you have been on some pretty heavy psychiatric medications, been diagnosed with some form of schizophrenia, and are completely disabled. — Hanover

All true. I am disabled. What about it?

For some reason you want us to believe that really you're just lazy and working the system, playing along so that you can hang out and do nothing but be fully taken care of. — Hanover

There is some truth to that. People come from Syria with arms or legs blown off or soldiers come back to the States with PTSD and struggle with suicidal thoughts. I have my arms, I have my legs, haven't been to war and sadly I would have loved to die on the battlefield, but I digress.

Point is, I can improve my situation by making more of an effort in my life to make more money and buy my mother a Model 3, so that she doesn't have to rely on me to drive of freeways, which she can't.

Actually, if you really want to know I was just today speaking for a costly hour with her lawyer about how we're going to pin down my father during the upcoming deposition he and my mother are going to face. I hope I devised a way to nail him on some issues (what counts as community property here and there in Poland). We're really struggling to make ends meet and are paying our lawyer on credit.

So, no. It's not all rainbows and unicorns in my world. A lot of frustration, dealing with depression, and anger is apter a description.

That doesn’t teach them to manage the inevitability of pain, loss or humiliation long term, but it helps us as mothers to avoid these experiences ourselves, short term. — Possibility

I wallow, so I digress.

Anyway, I have a nice kingdom as you noted. But, I share my kindgdom with my mom. Did I tell you my father wants to take away that kingdom and keep it for himself? So, I out there all day thinking about how to prove to the court how he abandoned his fiduciary duty. So, no. It's not all about me. It's about us, and the pain and suffering my mother experienced as my father abused her physically and emotionally in another country, which we left to come back to home here in the USA.

Ask me anything else that fancies your mind. I have a clear conscious that I am not cradling my way to my grave on the shoulders of my mother. I hope to grow old with her and follow her to the grave when that finally is unavoidable.

It's like the quitter who feels bad about quitting so he convinces himself that quitting isn't all that bad. The problem is that it is. — Hanover

You sound like my therapist who quit or changed offices, who kept on asking me whether I want to get better? I have a roof over my head, a warm bed I spend most of my time in, food in the fridge, a very loving mother, clean clothes, a decent neighborhood, a nice house, hiking trails if I ever get the urge to go outside (very rare). What more can I ask for.

See, this has been a problem that goes back to my childhood. I've never been competitive, subscribed to the self-esteem movement, that everyone is special and should be treated that way, love feminism, hate indoctrination, tolerate tradition and observe it as anyone else.

What I'm trying to say is that I kind of grew up with a silver spoon in my mouth. Yet, it has never manifested in vanity or inflated pride over nothing. Rather, a docile sense of calm and coolness with a lot of procrastination.

But, before you judge that I've never tried at anything in life, just remember that I tried the military, college, and the 9-5 life, and couldn't complete any of them. Where I ended up is here on disability, reading posts on here every day.

You might be wondering if I set myself up for this very early retirement plan with the social security disability pay and possibly growing some pot in the garage to supplant my income? Yes, I think I have. I chose the path of least resistance and it's not going all that bad if you really care for my opinion.

BTW I am not judging you wallows, but giving my honest reaction to the situation you describe. — emancipate

:blush:

It's hard to say anything thinking of the whole thing in the third person. We've been through hell. I wasn't always like this BTW. There was a time when I wanted to move out to Germany or some Scandinavian country, which I brought up on these forums numerous times asking how do I get an education in Germany and such.

Strangely, the phase of moving around and doing things has ended sooner for me than what would be normal or typical for a male. I see my friends traveling to exotic lands on Facebook all the time; but, I guess I'm just getting older, almost like accelerated aging. I guess suffering and struggle make a person want less or desire less rather than more from the world.

And, sure @Hanover, you've been following my threads or life, and have been an impartial witness throughout the whole venture; but, you may have noticed that I've also quieted down considerably. I don't know if this is a sign of maturity; but, I just want to have an easy and happy life with my mom.

This thread kinda blew up; but, I'm glad everything is fine.

Ah, yes. The high point of my philosophical life so far. — T Clark

I still remember the anger and outrage in your posts due to that thread. But, I learned something from your reaction. That even though, women haven't been treated (and in some cases still are) equally, that it's a double wrong to feel guilty about it as a male who cares about their children or jobs or homemaking just as much as the unfairly treated women have. I mean no sarcasm or wittiness in this post.

It's great your mother loves you and you love her back. You ought go up and ring her neck with a big ole hug and tell her, "Mama, I 'preciate the shit out of ya!" — Hanover

I do that every day, friend.

See, this thread isn't only about me then, don't you agree?

Or in other words, I am trying to draw a correlation between the population of men from a skewed statistic of the ratio of men to women in prison populations.

Also, the OP wasn't asking why more men are in prison than women. It asked whether the fact that more men were in prison means women are better people. — T Clark

It can be about both issues, in my opinion.

It's not tiring for you at all. You delight in this conversation about you, which is now paradoxically about you to the extent we can talk about it being not about you. — Hanover

I have only expressed my unconditional love for my mother, and her's to me. Insofar then if it's about our happy relationship, and my disability, then fine, it can be about me.

And yes, Wallows, I know you're in the room, yet I talk about you like you're not. Having folks talk about you is your favorite topic though. — Hanover

Wrong again, this topic is about my mother, who loves me unconditionally. Though, yet again you try and tell me it's all about me. How tiring.

Yes; but, that doesn't change the fact that there are more men in prison than women.

I mean, how do you explain that?

Finally, though you have been burned, unconditional love toward a child can come (or not come) from a parent of either sex. I've seen both sexes be absolutely devoted parents or totally neglectful and abusive. Though it is true that our society generally encourages nurturing behavior more in women. — NKBJ

Well, I just think of the fact that prison populations are predominantly male, and this gives me the impression that females are less aggressive, domineering, and violent than men are.

People get mad when I bring this up; but, it seems to be true.

Thanks for explaining that. You raised some questions, such as

I also wonder if you love your mother unconditionally in return? How do you show your love for her, and would you continue to do so if she no longer took care of you the way that she does now? Would you take care of her in return if she needed it? — Possibility

All yes.

I love my mother for the fact that she loves me. The fact that it is unconditional love is even all the more welcoming.

The concept of unconditional love is regularly abused by mothers and their children to mask co-dependency. I love my children unconditionally by supporting them to develop and grow well past the point where they no longer need me. As painful as that is for me to gradually but surely let go, I know that I am not so narrowly defined by my role as his mother, just as he has the potential to be so much more than just my son.

I suggest you leave feminism out of this, by the way. Your POV is so far from feminism it isn’t even funny. — Possibility

Fair enough, I'm not that great with feminist ideology myself to claim that I know everything about it.

I'm just not sure the question of evolutionary fitness helps clarify anything here. — Bitter Crank

I'm actually going to open my old university schoolbook on game theory to answer this.

But, to a female it should be straightforward.

Hold on...

American or European culture seems to support the notion that children should leave home, at some point, and make their own way in the world. There is nothing inordinately superior about this plan over a traditional plan, but it's the one that we (mostly) live with. — Bitter Crank

I'd like to phrase this issue from the POV of a female.

Is a male desireable or evolutionarily "fit" if he is to live with his mother after the age of adolescence? If not, then what is he treated as?

I don't care that you are 30 and live with your mother. My youngest child, 29, lives at home with my wife and me and we're happy to have him here. — T Clark

More power to you T Clark. There's a strange concept that stinks of male chauvinism when someone says *at your age you should...*, to which I respond with no commentary. A free country I suppose one can say; but, I'm going a little deeper here.

But - to call that feminism is a long, insulting stretch.

Also, men can't be feminists, he said provocatively. — T Clark

Well, you're free to criticize me for saying this; but, mothers are better at maintaining and keeping the family together rather than men. As long as the family unit isn't strictly patriarchal.

This is hard to comment on without knowing the characters involved. I'd be interested in reading more about how you apply feminist philosophy to this situation — bert1

Nel Noddings, believes in what is called ethics of care. In my limited understanding of this philosophy, Carol Gilligan's duty of care is supplanted with an ethics of care not motivated out of duty; but, love. I might have got some of that mixed up, it's been a while since I read Gilligan.

Anyone, please correct me on this.

It seems to me that 'love' is about supporting someone to develop and grow. Is your mum facilitating such development? — bert1

Surely she is. But, how can one ever asses that? And, this is where I say that supporting someone can be done by a significant other; but, doesn't attain the level or degree of care and support one receives from one's mother in the form of unconditional love.

You might note that I have a distorted vision of what constitutes real from illusory love; but, I feel confident that what I have said is all motivated out of preserving the care and love my mother presents to me, and wish that our situation doesn't change (and here you can say I have developed a dependency disorder); but, so what, I respond!

I almost feel militant and hostile towards the Western conception of what the family/atomic unit ought to look like. Yes, it exists in the back of my mind that I ought to be more independent and a self-sufficient individual by my age and various people would go to the extreme and say that I have a dependency disorder (say's *fuck you* under his nose.)

But, none of that matters because of the unconditional love my mother grants me.

I must say that this thread is a delicacy.

Thank you, Fooloso and Pussycat.

Meow!

Hmm, a difficult situation. I have come as close to bliss and tranquility as I could possibly have by staying on the seabed since I'm a metal exoskeleton and cant swim really well. The lack of oxygen is redundant because I'm powered by something else, kryptonite actually.

I made some rice. It's was a little to oily but tasted good. Now trying to sleep.

Papa!

You become what you do. Be compassionate to little potential-orphan Wallows and both of you will know compassion. (But don't forget to (metaphorically) kick his ass when he's being a dick too though). — Baden

Baden, should be orphan-Wallows father.

Hear hear.

I’m not — Michael

Not what?

I too am Wallows, and I will raise him by raising myself. — Nils Loc

But, I've been lost in some dark and dank forest easting some strange mushrooms. You wouldn't want that.

All this neglect, oppression, abandonment, is creating a @Bitter Crank out of me.

Poor reincarnated Wallows, looks like he's buggered either way. — unenlightened

See, what unenelightened is telling us here is that I belong with the child protection agency. I don't know how to take care of myself.

Imagine my avatar stranded in the middle of the Marine Abbyss drowning down. That's where I am since I'm made of metal, it's pretty hard to swim.

Given the Wallows of habit, given that Wallows likely knows himself by some measure, does Wallows raise the child as his own or does he file for adoption? What is the compassionate thing to do? — Nils Loc

I would name either @Nils Loc or @unenlightened his Godfather. But, since unenlightened is tired of llfe, I might choose @schopenhauer1 or @darthbarracuda as substitute or surrogate fathers, since they seem more of a man than what I am.

Hope you had a giggle.

You mean of a bodybuilder? — Baden

Yeah, well, why doesn't Bob want to be a bodybuilder? Doesn't every male fantasize about being big and strong and look like Arnold Schwarzenegger?

Can you try and please explain the psychology behind this whole process? It's like these people are actually hurting by being themselves, and hate their self-image or something of that sort. How do you explain the psychology of a Bob?

I don't know how witnessing helps anything, compassion doesn't come from recognition of the negative, — Judaka

How could this be true? Every wrong has to be madeth right, so sayeth the Lord.

So, the question has become one of not socialization; but, collectivism.

Can individualism coexist in a highly collectivist society, implying that such a society isn't necessarily homogenous either too.

The two are intertwined. The individual is social and society is composed of individuals. So, individualization is a process whereby the socialized individual develops his or her character in a way that defines them apart from other individuals in the social context. And socialization is, in a broad sense, the production of individuals as persons in the first place. It begins more or less from birth. So, there's always some degree of individualization and some degree of socialization, and it's not a zero sum game either.

But your question is not very clear. Are you confused about the concepts or looking for advice on how to apply them to your own life? Or what? — Baden

Well, we no longer have the draft, in place. But, would you call a society, say Israel, as more coherent and socialized in terms of atomic units rather than the wild and crazy States?