I don’t know if I’d say “overcame” but yes. She’s a national hero so I’d expect the press be sympathetic and supportive.

I don’t know what happened. I’m simply saying that withdrawing can have undesirable consequences that can be feared.

In Simone’s case, what did she fear? — Leghorn

I haven’t been following the Olympics this year, or this story, but I would guess there’s fear in the consequences of withdrawing from events, like losing sponsors and the risk of generally damaging her career. I’m inclined to sympathize, personally.

Trumps got a bit of that fancy *Hitler Magic*. His zombie hordes even stormed the nation’s capital for him.

Just one of the first links in a google search:

Watching My Child Experience Racism in a Country of Contentment

Also offered for your amusement:

Implicit Association Test

There have been studies, btw, which correlate IAT results and real-world situations that significantly affect people's lives, even for those who may consider themselves without bias.

As I've said, believing in stereotypes to be "reasonably accurate" then makes some people to believe in stereotypes and they don't take people as individuals. — ssu

This is silly, as though if a person ‘believes in stereotypes’ they’re slaves to them and can’t distinguish individuals.

Who cares, if it's reasonably accurate. And racism creeps easily to those often funny stereotypes. — ssu

Stereotyping itself is not the reason that racism exists, obviously. Stereotyping does exist though, so it’s best to try dealing with it intelligently, taking control of the narrative as they say in PR talk, rather than ignoring it.

If there is a lot of social cohesion, those stereotypes won't matter so much: people try to behave honorably towards strangers. If there is a rift or hostility between groups of people and there is a lack of social cohesion, it will immediately show. — ssu

It may sound odd but a powerful method for achieving social cohesion is for leaders to identify others. A charismatic leader may intentionally create a rift, or exploit an existing one, in order to help galvanize a group identity. ‘The chosen ones’, or those that share our values, norms, purposes, etc., don’t need to behave honorably towards the others because they are lesser. Unscrupulous leaders of this kind don’t want you to believe in stereotypes. They want you to be color-blind. It’ll make it easier to fool you.

@ssu doesn’t believe in Santa Clause, the Tooth Fairy, or stereotyping, so this is all just fairytales to him.

Please explain.

But let's say we have a marginalized group like "middle-age to eldelry single males with low income". Not easy for them to get into higher paying jobs or to get rental flats. Lot of problems in this group at least in my country. Yet is it better to refer them as a group as "MATESMaWLI?" So in order to help MATESMaWLI-persons, we have to make this divide between MATESMaWLI and other men? — ssu

Here in 'Merika we have this natural talent called “stereotyping”. With a mere glance we can all but instantly assess a complete stranger. With attributes such as age, weight, fitness, bearing, and attire, we can estimate social status, and perhaps much more, practically instantly. If there were a corresponding label for a particular set of attributes and the social status they’re associated with, a label like “MATESMaWLI”, for example, then that label would come to mind. It would come to mind regardless if anyone wanted it to, if they possessed knowledge of the term. In America we call poor single middle-age men losers. Good thing I’m married!

Yet isn't the problem that your talking about groups, focusing and upholding groups and not individuals? — ssu

I wrote:

the problem is a marginalized group being taken advantage of — praxis

Then it's confusing. Because then those who say they are fighting racism are basically also upholding it. — ssu

To reiterate an earlier point, the problem isn't applying "pseudoscientific taxonomies", the problem is a marginalized group being taken advantage of. How can trying to prevent a group of people from being taken advantage of be taking advantage of them? Politicizing the issue to garner public support and gain a position of power, all the while not having any intention of significantly helping the marginalized group, could be one way. That's the way that Trumpets like NOS prefer see it, I presume.

It was so long ago and forgettable, hmm, let me see… something about fake taxes applying to people? Was that it?

Please allow me to rephrase. Your inquiry appears to be pointless. What is the point?

So your inquiry was pointless.

And what, pray tell, are you not applying it to? Human beings.

Now that that’s cleared-up, where were we going with that?

Either America will become a second rate empire (like Rome) or someone with that type of magic will find a way to unite us for a cause. — Trey

So what would be a good cause? and would that cause justify the means (Hilter magic)?

Your wording was awkward, stating “we are influenced by group-think”, because it’s like saying that we’re influenced by social conformity. Social conformity is often regarded as weak or too timid, and in that case it can be repellent.

I think that people can be conditioned to enjoy certain things as opposed to others. — Apollodorus

That is certainly true, yes. If I grew up in the South then perhaps I would enjoy country music, for instance, though if I were so conditioned… I would actually enjoy country music.

After all, we are influenced by group think and by the dominant mentality and culture of the society we live in. — Apollodorus

Again, if I grew up in the South I would have been influenced by whatever subcultures exists there, and they would have left an indelible mark. You just pointed out yourself they we’re conditioned this way, to enjoy certain things as opposed to others.

I don’t see how group-think relates to this. Group-think is an issue when serious errors are made because criticism is discouraged within a group. For example, if someone made a Pepsi commercial where Kendall Jenner saves BLM protesters from being shot because she tamed a police officer by giving him a Pepsi, that might appear rather tone-deaf and end up being largely counterproductive to the endeavor. Yes-(wo)men only say yes, and so mistakes are made.

I think the whole concept of videos staged by clever record companies that manipulate, exploit, and fool the public for profit is wrong. I would rather watch something more traditional, more authentic, and more dignified, like Spanish flamenco, Irish or Greek dancing, or even ballet that at least has some artistic and cultural value. — Apollodorus

Well la-di-da, :razz: , but seriously, people are fooled into believing that they enjoy something that they actually don’t enjoy?

I recommend any place that at least knows the meaning of progress, and perhaps on the coast with a temperate climate.

LOL. Just go back and listen to how the left was anti-vaxxers when Trump was president. — Harry Hindu

I won’t bother asking you to support this in any meaningful way.

So, the claim that the vaccine is more dangerous than the cure, even for the elderly isn't something you heard that is a reasonable explanation for not getting vaccinated? I'm confused on that point. — Harry Hindu

I’ve heard some people claim that the earth is flat.

Still confused?

How is the economic recovery being helped if the vaccinated still have to mask themselves — Harry Hindu

The vaccinated need to wear masks because…?

Yes, counter-cultural or anti-cultural sounds about right. And anything that serves as a substitute for traditional culture qualifies as "progressive" in certain quarters where deconstruction and replacement count as progress. — Apollodorus

You should move to a better quarter.

Okay good, you agree that such demarcations allow or facilitate abuse rather than cause it. If you’re actually interested in solving a problem it’s usually best to deal with the cause of it.

And it seems to me that wisdom is fast disappearing from both language and culture under the modernizing influence of "gangsta cultcha" and other progressive trends .... — Apollodorus

I’ve been under the impression that gangsta cultcha was pop rather than progressive or regarded as dispensing wisdom, though in some part authentically counter-cultural and validly so.

One needn’t use these taxonomies to recognize that people apply entire stereotypes to them, draw false conclusions from them, and abuse others because of them. — NOS4A2

What exactly do you mean by claiming that people abuse others because of pseudoscientific taxonomies? If I want to abuse or marginalize a group I can creatively contrive any number of classifications that may facilitate my efforts, to the weak minded and/or unprincipled.

Ignoring an advantage ≠ ignoring racism. — NOS4A2

People aren't racist because they dislike diversity. They're racist out of ignorance and/or because they know, perhaps not even on a conscious level, that it gives them an advantage over the marginalized group in some way.

How so? It may be fair to say that popular American culture portrays black men as more violent than other groups, if that’s what you’re suggesting.

It's the author's mental disorders plus the presence of black people that triggers the oppression. — K Turner

Their emotional reactions are maladaptive (not appropriate to the circumstances). Maladaptive triggers can be inexplicable and literally anything. I developed panic disorder at one point in my youth so I have some firsthand experience in the matter.

The idea that one will ignore racism by refusing to include racial taxonomies into his thinking is false on its face, because racializing people, viewing them as a member of this or that racial group and deriving assumptions thereby, is the problem to begin with. — NOS4A2

No, the problem is taking advantage of a marginalized group. Ignoring an advantage allows the privileged group to keep whatever advantage they have.

For a more modern take I can recommend How to Be a Stoic: Using Ancient Philosophy to Live a Modern Life by Massimo Pigliucci

I suppose you could say that this person is oppressed by their mental disorders and maladaptive perceptions.

The vaccines only suppress symptoms and neither prevent becoming infected nor infecting others. — 180 Proof

Yes, I was wrong to theorize that it could be eliminated through vaccination, though it would all but eliminate fear of severe symptoms and no longer cripple the economy, perhaps. The way things are going, it looks like we’re headed towards limited lockdowns again.

To make this world a better place, ser. — Baden

That’s adorable.

(Caveat: so far, none of the big pharma (mRNA) Covid-19 vaccines have been given full approval by the US FDA or any its international counterparts – they are to high degrees (so far) symptomatically effective yet with undetermined long-term side-effects (re: safety?). Scientifically, rather than politically, it makes more sense to wait for an approved vaccine – I'm a long hauler by the way – conscientiously caught between a rock and hard place. Yes, it's a tradeoff of risk vs uncertainty (N.N.Taleb)) — 180 Proof

Might there not be long-term side-effects from contracting COVID? In any case, the point I was trying to make by bringing this up is that at the beginning of the pandemic Trumpers were saying that Americans should be willing to make sacrifices and take health risks in order to protect the economy. Theoretically, if everyone got vaccinated the pandemic would be greatly reduced if not eliminated and the economy would no longer be affected by it. What happened to their brave capitalistic patriotism? I’m suggesting that positions are often based in social solidarity and following a perceived authority rather than facts or principles.

Anti-vaxxer's are like climate change deniers, or in the case specific to this topic, systemic racism deniers, and are positions taken to express tribal solidarity.
— praxis

I do know who you are talking about, but that categorization can be used quickly to squelch any debate of quite valid issues. — ssu

I edited what you quoted to say “positions often taken…” The telltale sign is a lack of evidence or reasonable argument.

To protect the non-adults from reading naughty words and ideas?

What do you think anti-vac and vaccinated are, if not identities? — Harry Hindu

Anti-vaxxer's are like climate change deniers, or in the case specific to this topic, systemic racism deniers, and are positions often taken to express tribal solidarity. I agree that the foundation of this is like religion and the value it places on social solidarity over truth or actual principles.

Maybe we should ask people why they aren't getting vaccinated instead of demonizing them when you have no idea what their reasoning is? — Harry Hindu

I don't think that it's particularly controversial to claim that the economic recovery would be aided by as many people getting vaccinated as quickly as possible. I've heard people claim that the vaccine is more dangerous than the cure, even for the elderly. I have yet to hear what I think is a reasonable explanation for not getting vaccinated. Do you know of any?

What gives you the right to determine the medical decisions of others? — Harry Hindu

Not exactly sure what you're talking about, the Food & Drug Administration, for example, consistently makes this sort of determination. Prior to the existence of the FDA all sorts of toxins were sold to the public without their knowledge.

More relevant to this topic, I assume that you believe employers should have the right to make hiring decisions based on race, sex, age, or any other criteria.

Should others make medical decisions for you? — Harry Hindu

No one is forced to get vaccinated, though the choice to not get vaccinated has an impact on society. Judging by the evidence I think it's irresponsible to not get vaccinated. Also judging by the evidence, I think it's irresponsible to deny climate change or systemic racism.

So you've never flagged a moderator's post? — frank

I've never flagged any post. I'm not sure why any adult would.

Against the Grain was eye opening.

In the middle of The Other Black Girl by Zakiya Dalila Harris. :up:

I think Nietszches critique of Christianity as a slave morality has a grain of truth. — Ross Campbell

I'm not sure what he means exactly by 'slave morality' but all religions are rather the same in this regard, and Buddhism is in no way an exception.