His archenemy should be Gus Lamarch, a Brazilian highborn ubermensch who possesses the power to corral a mass of mindless minions, and with a mere fib or two, send them out to slaughter the Nihilistas in holy jihad.

Why, then, do people so easily confuse metaphysical concepts related to the absolute? — Gus Lamarch

Because they’re all equally inapplicable. Your Perfection, for instance, is not applicable to **The One** because in order for it to be perfect there would need to be something imperfect to compare it to. It’s equally valid to claim that the almighty One is imperfect.

I was never good at math.

Antifa are anarchists or anti-capitalists and there’s no dirtier word to a Trumpian than anti-capitalist.

And Nietzsche disagrees with you too. — Gus Lamarch

Right, I don’t know how you interpreted otherwise. My fault for being unclear, I suppose.

My understanding, which could be wrong, is that you are in agreement with Nietzsche, and we are not in agreement. My reference to Nietz was only to signify The Enlightenment, because you asked how humanity has matured.

What do you understand when Nietzsche says: — Gus Lamarch

My understanding of why you quote him this way is in effort to substantiate your belief that people require some contrived fiction in order to be lead around like cattle.

We have been living in the "Dominatus" for longer than everyone thinks ... He is not the worst, there are still worst rulers to come - at least for the mean time, I'm in a privileged position - here in Brazil - to watch the fall of the West - commonly known as Europe and North America -. — Gus Lamarch

Lol, true dat, and good luck with your privileged position.

I'm not getting your use of "maturity" to criticize the institutions of order of humanity. In what respect has humanity really matured? In relation to whom? We are what we are, the only thing going foward is time... — Gus Lamarch

Suffice to say as Fredy say: God is dead.

One of the inescapable failings of religion is that it cannot extend beyond the tribe or in-group.
— praxis

The mere fact that Christianity and Islam are multi-cultural religions refutes his argument. — Gus Lamarch

The Enlightenment endows us with the wondrous power to distinguish religion and culture.

Both are religions that do not differ between their converts. That's why we have christian japanese, and muslim american people. — Gus Lamarch

Right, they don’t differ between converts, they differ between in-groups or tribes. Those who subscribe to the same values, moral framework, and exalted purpose.

Religion unifies people more than it divides... — Gus Lamarch

So we agree that it divides, cool. :cool:

What if they let themselves be blinded by another idea for the simple fact that they cannot stand their existence without purpose? — Gus Lamarch

Then obviously they haven’t sufficiently matured.

This is the problem in our current society. — Gus Lamarch

Look at the current democratically elected leader of the free world and tell me that we live in a mature society.

We are denying your "Santa Claus" but we are not putting anything new in its place. — Gus Lamarch

Adults don’t need to be spoon fed a “complex” system of meaning. We’re free to discover meaning and purpose for ourselves. Part of that discovery may include the fulfillment of being part of something greater than ourselves, and significantly in the context of religion, something greater than our tribe. One of the inescapable failings of religion is that it cannot extend beyond the tribe or in-group.

Why do we eventually tell children that there's no Santa Claus? Because it's time for them to grow up.

Metaphysical legitimacy, as you call it, in religion is necessarily derived from a chain of hierarchical authority. This chain is comprised of people, and also doctrine written by people. People are ‘only human’, as the popular saying goes. This realization and the corrosion of this great chain can also lead to a loss of meaning. Meaning can be lost in many ways but the general thrust is simply that we eventually outgrow childish things.

One of the weaknesses of any religion - it seems to me - is that it is partly founded on the belief that metaphysical events can - and should - manifest in the real world, which does not happen. — Gus Lamarch

Rather, religions are weakened by a loss of meaning, which can result from metaphysical events failing to manifest.

It's only self-gratification at the expense of others' gratification that's blameworthy. — Pfhorrest

I should point out that I was probably being more self-gratifying than serious, and it was about praise rather than blame. Regardless of that I disagree with your statement simply because we can reproach ourselves for the cost that self-gratification has on us as individuals. Our reproach need not be so melodramatic as to require whip and tote, of course, unless you’re into that sort of thing.

Savoring a sense of superiority is certainly self gratifying, as is masturbation. I can agree with you that far, but I question the worth you place on it.

Not long ago I recall NOS being criticized for the quality of his posts and him replying, “In my defense, I have more mentions than comments.” It was pointed out to him that this could indicate trolling behavior, in which case it would be further damning rather than a defense. Trolling is essentially self gratifying, like masturbation or relishing a sense of superiority. If you accused someone of being a poor lover and they said, “Well, in my defense, I enjoy masturbation,” it would not be a defense. It would show how utterly disconnected they had become, due to their habit of self gratification.

Self gratification has low worth and should remain unsung.

The elation felt in a sense of superiority should be praised?
— praxis

Not praised, but enjoyed. It's like praising someone else's orgasm. None of my business. But feeling my own is certainly worth it. — god must be atheist

Given this sentiment, I imagine that your talent as a lover is unsung.

The elation felt in a sense of superiority should be praised?

If you do the math, herd immunity would cost around 6 million American lives. Hey, no sweat, right?! :brow:

Herd mentality helped him get elected, so that might be why it's on his mind.

Novel actually — Maw

For sci-fi? It definitely stands out in that genre.

Vast research has been done on authoritarian personalities. — JerseyFlight

The Republican Party or conservativtism isn’t an authoritarian personality. Granted Trump is a dictator wannabe, and many of his supporters seem willing undermine democracy in their support of him.

The Left favors democracy, the right, monarchy and a violent system of law. Do some research, you will be surprised. — JerseyFlight

Can you point something out?

The general dimensions are normally believed to look like this:

The media was astroturfed, the inauguration was disrupted, and you guys ate a propaganda platter. — NOS4A2

So the protesters scared away thousands of Trump supporters. That’s easy to imagine. What’s the propaganda? That Trump is so unpopular that he drew a small crowd, or that he’s so unpopular that 200 protesters were arrested at his inauguration? Hardly a platter. Meanwhile, you guy’s scarfed down at the buffet of alternative facts (see post above this one).

So has the Left, in the same manner.

These people rally behind violence, they are the very worst of America. — JerseyFlight

No, they’re just easily lead, for whatever reason. I doubt they can be lead to significant violence by the orange fool. His weird charisma isn’t nearly strong enough.

This allowed the Right to seize the culture. — JerseyFlight

It allowed the Right, or rather capital, to gain power. Practically all of us are caught in the trap of capitalist culture though, I agree.

You claimed that there’s a point but are apparently unable to find one.

And the point is?

We should certainly stop being racist for the wrong reasons. — Bitter Crank

Many are racist for the wrong reasons, because they’re ignorant. The right reason is that it offers an advantage or privileged position, simply. Holding that position requires subduing our moral sense of fairness, caring, liberty, and others.

Ignorant people can’t believe that they’re morally deficient so their cognitive dissonance is resolved in believing that the object of their subjugation is inherently bad or evil, and their prejudice deepens and becomes malignantly maladaptive to themselves as well as others.

So I suppose that only a sociopath can be racist for the right reason.

... illustrate a point. — telex

What the point? (if not to troll)

I appreciate your response praxis, but again the only thing I will say to this is I did not design this to troll. — telex

You appear to be saying that you’re unwilling to edit the OP in order to be less negativity producing.

I'm sure no one here beats their wife. — telex

How do you know? Dingo brought it up, maybe he’s projecting.

Okay then, we’ll chalk it up to habit. That established, there’s no reason for you not to edit the OP in order to make it less likely to produce a lot of negativity and more likely to produce whatever it is that you intended it to produce.

I notice you haven’t addressed the topic whatsoever. Too tired after beating your wife, perhaps?

Perhaps it’s your habit then. Will you admit that much?

If you say so. In any case, there’s no reason that couldn’t be done in a way that would not produce “a lot of negativity,” as you say. But you’ve deliberately chosen to present it in a way that you believe will produce a lot of negativity. There is only one explanation for why you would do this, and the fact that you have no other explanation further supports the regrettable conclusion.

No, I'm not trying to troll. — telex

You knowingly designed an OP that you believed may produce "a lot of negativity." Why would you do that if not to troll?

I understand that this is a hot issue, so there maybe a lot of negativity about my thread, which is fine. — telex

Are you admitting that the topic is designed to troll?

Perhaps the devil made them delete it.

can any of these presidents- say from Clinton to Trump be themselves credited much with economic factors like GDP, the stock market, or employment - or are they more incidental to the broader trends? — Kevin

Trump did inherit a strong economy. The economy is no longer strong. Trump failed to produce the GDP growth that he promised. Etc... Where did I say that any president is credited with economic factors and what is your point?

GDP would have increased anyway. — telex

Actually, Trump failed to produce the GDP growth that he promised.

1) people solely support trump because he appears to be pro-white. (white nationalists) — telex

This probably is the case for some. David Duke, for example, has made statements that indicate this.

2) people support trump because he is pro-white and creates a strong economy — telex

He inherited a strong economy, which is now in shambles, but that won't disaffect his cult-like supporters.

3) people support trump just because they are republican. — telex

If there's such a thing as a 'true Republican', I'm not sure they would.

4) people support trump only because of his strong economy — telex

The strong economy that he inherited is no longer strong.

5) people support trump for all of his issues, including immigration — telex

He supports many conservative policies, and his more xenophobic supporters are apparently strongly motivated by his anti-immigration stance.

I suppose there be somewhat of a legitimate basis for the Trumpian anti-maskers, being:

A) They’re incapable of thinking for themselves.

B) They’re mouth breathers.

Like with any group, you get a few people who are truly interesting and worth dialoguing with. This is where I learn a thing or two, which is impossible almost anywhere else (try it on Twitter or YouTube), and for that I'm grateful. — Xtrix

Impossible to learn a thing or two almost anywhere else? You poor man. :worry:

I started rereading Dune and it's very enjoyable. I read it as a teen and again sometime around 15 years ago. The remake looks promising, btw.

I've read all the Dune novels by Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson, incidental, and though entertaining they don't compare to Frank.

They're so devoted to their tribe that they're willing to kill and die for it, apparently.