The estimates I've seen tell me that the alternative oil extraction methods are not only unacceptably detrimental to the environment and use unsustainable quantities of water, draining and polluting aquifers, streams and so on, but that just to break even they need oil prices to be $50-100 dollars a barrel. — Janus

There's also the additional cost of accidents, such as the Deepwater Horizon spill, as drilling is forced to harder to access and risky sites.

Is there a culture war in the US right now? — Number2018

Yes, and the rich and powerful are winning. They always win. :sad:

Besides, coal powered ships and trains aren't a problem, perhaps only aircraft are the one transport type that has really needed gas engines. — ssu

The problem with coal-powered ships and trains is the bulk and expense to transport and use, not to mention the environmental impact. And no air travel? Imagine the scale involved. I asked if coal could have fueled the economic growth that developed with oil and so far the answer appears to be no.

From the below you can see the energy production from 1830 to 2010. You can observe the transformations that have happened: first it was biomass (burning wood etc), then came coal, then oil and gas, then nuclear, then renewables. — ssu

The renewables and nuclear are still a tiny portion. If the cost of oil increases (because of peak oil) to the point where renewable substitutes are cheaper, that will entail a general economic downturn. The graph of energy consumption pretty much underscores the point.

Still have what's left of my brain cells. :up:

The Infinite Game, by Simon Sinek

Supreme Inequality: The Supreme Court's Fifty-Year Battle for a More Unjust America, by Adam Cohen

Contrary to the popular belief that the Supreme Court is a champion of justice for the people, according to Cohen, the Supreme Court has always supported the rich and powerful except for a relatively short period around the 60' known as the 'Warren Court', when it had a liberal majority. Nixon somewhat underhandedly ended that majority and conservatives have been strategically maintaining it ever since. For some reason liberals look at it like a game of chance or something, and conservatives are playing chess.

It was lazy of me to not get my facts right. Anyway, coal couldn't have fueled the economic growth that developed with cheap oil, yes?

Never forget that there are always alternative energy resources to oil. So if to produce a barrel oil would cost 10 000$ dollars, only some very rich car collectors would dare to run their combustion engines. But we still would have transports. — ssu

The point is that increased efficiency and substitution can't ever match the cheapness of oil, and if we've reached peak oil then 'American will never be great again'. Reckless consumerism and the stupid American dream should be, thankfully, forgotten.

daily walks/hikes — 180 Proof

Rousseau and Nietzsche walked to think. Kant walked through his town at the same time daily to escape the “compulsion of thought.” They say that you could set your watch by his passing.

I've walked our dog 2-3 miles daily for probably around a decade, rarely missing a day. Listened to a lot of books on tape while walking also. They say that the physical activity and environment can be both calming and stimulate the mind.

The only thing that oil basically has is it's very cheap price. — ssu

You say “the only thing” like is was a small thing, as though the economic growth the world has seen since the beginning of the industrial revolution weren’t entirely dependent on it.

I imagine that because of the money and big players involved it's difficult to know who's telling the truth about peak oil, climate change, and the like. Capital favors a rosy outlook, that much I'm sure of.

The fact is that it hasn't been overrated or short sighted what the Chinese have been able to do. — ssu

Wasted infrastructure is the result of an overestimation. Endless economic growth is inherently short-sighted because it's unquestionably unsustainable. The economic growth of China and other countries will inevitably fall to the rates of developed economies and by that time global resources or in particular cheap energy, the backbone of economic growth, will be further diminished. Economic downturns will become more frequent and longer lasting, in fact this may already be happening.

The existence of China's never inhabited ghost cities may indicate that the promise of economic growth to lift populations out of extreme poverty may be somewhat overrated, or at least shortsighted.

Because he was being taunted with "where's your white hood?"
— praxis

Right and so of all comebacks and possible satire why would you validate a heckler’s claim by saying white power? — Anaxagoras

sar·casm
noun
The use of irony to mock or convey contempt.

i·ro·ny
noun
The expression of one's meaning by using language that normally signifies the opposite, typically for humorous or emphatic effect.

"Where's your white hood?"
"Where's your white hood?"
"Racist! Racist!"

"Yeah, you got it, white power! white power!"

But let’s focus on why some anti-Trump protestors feel this way. — Anaxagoras

I agree that Trumps populism contains an element of racism, by design. I don't think that yelling at his supporters that they're fucking nazi fascist pigs and racists is the best approach to dealing with them. If nothing else, it plays into the hands of whoever benefits from a divided nation.

The Miami Herald is not the only news outlet — Anaxagoras

I've noticed that. I've also noticed that you didn't answer my question, which is fine.

mental health is not taken as seriously as biological health — Anaxagoras

The two are interrelated, and it's a dubious claim that biological health is taken seriously to begin with. Around half the nation is overweight and on prescription drugs (for conditions that could be better addressed without drugs). Only 23 percent of American adults meet leisure-time physical activity (LTPA) guidelines, according to new research data from the Center for Disease Control's (CDC) National Center for Health Statistics. Americans typically also have a poor diet, high in processed foods, sugar, and fat.

A unhealthy physical lifestyle leads to an unhealthy mind.

Because he was being taunted with "where's your white hood?" and whatever else. Why does the Miami Herald suspect that he may have been sarcastic? Is the Miami Herald racist? :scream:

And what if it turns out that Stokes was being sarcastic, would the probability of me seeing racism improve at all? Sorry if that’s an awkward question but your logic is still unclear.

You're probably one of those people who don't think racism exists because you don't see it. — Anaxagoras

How exactly did you reach that conclusion? Wait, don’t tell me, it might require you to rationally consider the issue.

It’ll probably come out eventually but for now...

The Miami Herald tried to reach Stokes Monday to ask whether or not he was speaking with sarcasm. A home phone number for Stokes had been disconnected by Monday afternoon. A message left at a cellphone number hadn’t been returned as of early Monday afternoon.

I am not disagreeing with you, nor arguing, nor was I there, nor do I know the person. But consider that in Fla. there may still even be holocaust survivors, and they may know exactly what they're talking about. That is, maybe they know a “fucking nazi fascist pig” when they see one. — tim wood

The woman yelling that wasn’t a Holocaust survivor. There may have been one in one of the golf carts she was yelling at as they passed by. I can’t imagine how that would feel.

Now I have a hint of what NOS must feel like. :lol:

No, it was a PST (public senior tantrum).

One estimate I read (can't locate the source) is that the planet could sustainably (i.e. employing organic farming practices) feed around 200 million, one fortieth of the current population. — Janus

I wouldn’t have guessed the number was that low.

Same story with China and other countries, I understand. Don’t know.

I noticed a news article this morning that the woman yelling “fucking nazi fascist pig” at Trump supporters was getting major props online. I seriously don’t get it. I imagine it might feel good on some base level to vent frustrations at those you feel deserve it. A tantrum, basically.

The sadist part of the dilemma, besides the mass extinction of species, is that the modern materialistic consumer lifestyle isn’t all that great in terms of actual ‘well-being’. Greater well-being could be had with far far less material consumption. That would require a major cultural shift, however, and there’s probably not enough time left before the shit hits the fan.

It’s true that there’s still a lot of capacity, but the cost of the capacity or resource extraction will get increasingly higher as time goes on. All the easy to access cheap energy (fossil fuel) and minerals have been taken. It’s also costly to deal with the effects of climate change and to purify water. Capitalistic economic growth simply isn’t possible when the future is ever more expensive, at least not with the current global financial system.

Sustainability will require more than depopulation but could have unexpected rewards, if it’s at all possible.

That's not what I said. — Enai De A Lukal

True. You did however mention my ideology. What you meant by that is less clear now than it was initially. In case it has any relevance, I too think that Trumps brand of populism enlists an element of racism.

You think that I’m a Trump supporter? :snicker:

So, you don’t expect to make a difference?
— praxis

Mmmm, I feel a trick question coming up.

Do I expect to make a difference? I expect myself to face up to the ennui. — Brett

Ah, you see the ennui but don’t experience it yourself. That wasn’t clear until now. Good for you.

I did, and that seems like quite the leap based on the short interaction we can see in the clip, and especially in light of all the other relevant context here... — Enai De A Lukal

The “other relevant context” could be skewing perception.

They guy was being taunted with “where’s your white hood?” and the like, just for showing Trump support. I’d have difficulty not responding sarcastically to such childishness, personally.

So, you don’t expect to make a difference?

It reeks of ennui. — Brett

I’d wager there have been people say this throughout history.

Sarcasm, that's really what you're going with? — Enai De A Lukal

That’s my honest impression, though I could be wrong.

Did you watch the video?

Be not so quick to judge the elderly. They may be smarter than you; they may be better educated than you; they may be more experienced than you in almost every way, and they sure as hell have been around longer and seen more. Does't mean they're right, but their age also doesn't mean they know less than you. — tim wood

I’m not being an ageists. Did you watch the video? I can’t imagine you condoning their behavior. It’s obviously absurd and counterproductive to yell at a Trump supporter that they’re a nazi fascist pig merely for publicly expressing their support.

They're not just saying that Trump sucks, they're calling his supporters stuff like "Nazi fascist pig," etc. The kind of things that sound better coming from Antifa kids. It's embarrassing to hear it come from the elderly who one might hope would have acquired a bit more wisdom in their long lives.

Looks like the guy saying "white power" is being sarcastic, and quite frankly his sarcasm is warranted, given the behavior of the anti-Trumpers. Lots of nasty old retirees in Florida, apparently.

Folks generally will believe what suits them. — Wayfarer

Indeed.

I think he's calling you a damn Nazi.

Anecdotal rather than empirical evidence.

Accidentally hit the reply button to your post. Meant the one below yours.

Wish I saw this 5 minutes ago.

corruption, terror and other stupidity - completely anti-west. — Oku

The West has a fine tradition of corruption and stupidity, just look at who we’ve freely elected as our leader. Truly terrifying.

(anti-white and anti-American)

Are you suggesting that being anti-white is being anti-American?

I’m completely with you, nevertheless, I think we’re too ignorant (in the general sense) to say this is true.
— praxis

Explain where. — TheMadFool

In general. For example, it may have once been reasonable to conclude that the earth was flat. Today it's highly reasonable to say that the earth is spherical or even to say that it's true that the earth is spherical.

Feel free to do so. — TheMadFool

Let's start with inconsistencies in the foundational principles of rebirth and emptiness. I imagine there are countless vague and tenuous ways to make these concepts appear consistent with each other, but none are reasonably sound.

For an essence or soul-like thing to be reborn in another body, it would need to be immaterial or unaffected by matter, and therefore separate and unchanging, which is the very antithesis of emptiness.

I could not have asked for a better job. — NOS4A2

For once we agree, anything short of "the next Hitler" looks pretty good and better than expected.