When you, for example, look at nature, then all the information of the trees, rivers, etc. is flowing through your brain. The moment you get a positive emotion from nature, then that naturalistic information in the brain gets combined with that positive emotional state. Thus, producing a positive emotion that literally contains a naturalistic quality to it. The same thing would apply if you got a positive emotion from looking at something artificial such as a lit flashlight. The positive emotion would take on the artificial tone of that flashlight. So, instead of seeing the flashlight and all its qualities, you are actually feeling all of its qualities. It would be no different than tasting a sweet piece of candy.

You could either look at the piece of candy and all its sweet and delicious attributes, or you can taste them. In a way, I guess you could consider our positive emotions to be the taste we get from life itself. This means that, as I explain later on here, emotions are a sense like taste, sight, hearing, etc. Now, here's where things get interesting. I established earlier that our positive emotions are like the sense of taste in the very beginning of my logical argument. This means that if we have a good value judgment that makes us feel a positive emotion, then we are sensing something good in our lives. Therefore, our positive emotions are a sense like sight and hearing.

I actually have a logical argument that supports the idea that emotions are a sense. Let me know when you are ready to read it.

But I think emotions would still be a sense even though it is a different mechanism than sight. So, just because thoughts make us feel certain emotions while thoughts do not make us see or hear, this does not negate the idea of emotions being a sense.

For example, when you feel excited over a new video game or movie, that is a state of euphoria caused by a certain thought. That thought was, again, the idea of you getting that new game or movie.

The thoughts themselves can't be any emotions for us. They send emotional signals which make us feel emotions.

But my theory is that these higher emotions you are talking about do not give a person's life any real perception of value. I have a logical argument to support this. Let me know when you are ready to hear it.

I will add one last thing here. From there, I will present a logical argument that attempts to support my view. Let me know when you are ready to read it. But first, I will just say this:

The reason why these "higher emotions" aren't actual emotions would be due to the fact that there is no actual quality of emotions there. Remember, there is a big difference between terms and qualities. You can define or judge an apple to be an orange, but that will not change the qualities of the apple and make it into an orange. Therefore, these "higher emotions" are nothing more than a person's will to carry on in life in the absence of his "lower positive emotions." This will to carry on does not give this person a real perception of good value in his life regardless of what he thinks and believes otherwise.

From your post, we can gather that the one horse with the rational and moral impulse would be what we call the higher emotions. The second horse would be living its life according to the lower emotions. I am now going to reverse this whole quote to make my point:

Plato paints the picture of a Charioteer (Greek: ἡνίοχος) driving a chariot pulled by two winged horses:

"First the charioteer of the human soul drives a pair, and secondly one of the horses is noble and of noble breed, but the other quite the opposite in breed and character. Therefore in our case the driving is necessarily difficult and troublesome."

The Charioteer represents intellect, reason, or the part of the soul that must guide the soul to truth; one horse represents rational or moral impulse or the neutral/dead part of passionate nature (e.g., righteous indignation); while the other represents the soul's sacred/life-giving passions, appetites, or divine nature. The Charioteer directs the entire chariot/soul, trying to stop the horses from going different ways, and to proceed towards hedonistic enlightenment.

So, what I am basically saying here is that these "lower emotions" are actually the higher emotions while these "higher emotions" are nothing at all. These lower emotions are actually divine, so to speak, and many people don't realize this. They think that non hedonistic endeavors (i.e. endeavors that don't involve these divine positive emotions) are the way to enlightenment and the true path to finding good value and worth in one's life. I think this is all a deluded lie. Likewise, people would think that all the emotional trauma that I've been through in my life was nothing more than a matter of me feeling awful.

They are dismissing the emotional hell I've been through as nothing more than trivial, insignificant, or petty emotions. What people don't realize is that these "lower emotions" are actually the true heaven and hell to a person's life. Of course, we do need to use reason and intellect (the higher impulse) to, for example, save our lives, make wise decisions, and save the lives of others. But the higher impulse alone does not give our lives any real perceived value and worth. It is not our higher impulse that is the prominent guider in our lives. Rather, it is these "lower emotions" which guide the higher impulse since they are what make any endeavor that relies upon these higher impulses of good value to us in the first place.

All they can do is just wait and try things to help them recover their positive emotions even though doing said things cannot be perceived as having any real good value to them. Personally, if I were in such a position, I would do the same. However, if I could not recover my positive emotions within a reasonable time frame, then I would give up on life entirely.

Some people do not have their positive emotions due to mental health conditions such as anhedonia, depression, etc.

Who would want to live a life that has no actual perceived good value and worth? That would be a no quality standard of living since there would be no perceived quality of good value and worth in a person's life.

According to this effect chart, negative expressions, thoughts, and tones reflect negative emotions while positive expressions, thoughts, and tones reflect positive emotions. Perceiving good value and worth in your life is a positive expression while perceiving bad value in your life is a negative expression. Therefore, positive emotions are the only things that can allow us to perceive good value and worth in our lives while negative emotions are the only things that can allow us to perceive bad value in our lives.

To have a reverse effect where people display negative tones and expressions while having nothing but positive emotions or if they were to display positive expressions while having nothing but negative emotions would either have to mean that there was at least some positive emotion or positive sensual quality mixed in with the negative emotion or a negative emotion/sensual quality mixed in with the positive emotion.

Otherwise, people would just be forcing tones, thoughts, and expressions that do not reflect their emotional state. It would be a contradiction no different than expressing the idea that your loved one is alive while he or she is really dead. This means that if a completely miserable person claimed to perceive his life as being good and worth living to him while having no positive emotions whatsoever, then that would not reflect his miserable state of mind. This would have to mean that this miserable person's claim would be false.

Perception works differently than our tones of voice and gestures. You can force a certain tone or gesture, but you cannot force a perception. It's no different than trying to force yourself to see when you are blind. It's just not going to work. So, even though people without any positive emotions whatsoever can force themselves to think that their lives have good value to them, they cannot force themselves to perceive their lives as having good value to them.

Our emotions are like intrinsically dark and light spiritual forces, if you will. People who have nothing but depressed moods with no positive emotions whatsoever are just resisting the dark force flowing through them and carrying on in their lives anyway. They are so used to this that they really think it is a good and worthwhile life to them when it's really not.

But do you agree that emotions are the only way we can perceive value in our lives? That's where my theory was getting at. I'm also not sure why putting emotions into positive and negative categories would be the wrong thing to do. When we have what we normally call a positive emotion, this emotion feels entirely distinct from what we call a negative emotion. To make this distinction, we say that emotions are either positive or negative. You could also have a mix of positive and negative emotions as well which is what I've pointed out earlier.

Positive emotions, also referred to as "euphoria," are states of mind induced by the biochemicals in the brain (i.e. serotonin, dopamine, endorphins, and oxytocin). It could either be a calm and relaxed state of well being or it could be feelings of joy and excitement from a new movie or video game. It could also be a feeling of love we would get from an attractive soul mate. This is what I am saying gives us the perception of good values in our lives just like how sight allows us to see. Now, we can have mixed emotions. So, if you were euphoric, but felt a little bit of dysphoria at the same time, then your life would be half good and half bad depending on the degree of euphoria and dysphoria. If it is just a little bit of dysphoria and the rest is euphoria, then things, situations, and moments in your life would be something like 20% bad and 80% good to you.

I'm not sure what you're not understanding. If a person judges himself as having the ability to see when he is blind, then he would still not be able to see. In that same sense, if we judge our lives as having good value to us in the absence of our positive emotions, then we would still not be able to actually see that good value.

But that's only because of our wiring. We are wired to believe in this false version of value just like how religious people are wired to believe in their false gods such as Thor. So, the world has not been awakened yet to this emotional version of value I am talking about in my theory.

It doesn't matter even if you thought that the apple was good to you during a negative emotional state; you still would not be able to actually see the good value that the apple has as long as you are not in a positive emotional state. Thoughts make us feel certain ways and it is these feelings that allow us to become aware of value (good or bad) in our lives.

Please read my opening post since it has a very brief summary.

Actually, it would be like sight and hearing. There are objects and sound waves out there. But the only way we can perceive them would be through sight and hearing. Likewise, things, moments, and situations in our lives hold values. In order to perceive these values, then that requires your emotions. In a way, you could consider emotions to be a sense. They are a higher sense that transcends our biological senses. Going by my spiritual analogy, they would be our divine and spiritual sense. The positive emotions would be the divine spiritual sense.

However, the negative emotions would be our dark spiritual sense. Just like how a blind person cannot make himself see anything by believing and thinking he can see objects, we cannot see the values in our lives by thinking we can see them in the absence of our emotions. If a person were to create a magnificent character, then the magnificent light energy is there. If I were to get a positive emotion from that character, then it would be like I am sensing the spiritual life energy of that character. I would literally feel all the beautiful and magnificent attributes of him or her. It would be the divine light giving me a powerful and transcended perception.

I am saying that our emotions possess intrinsic qualities of beauty, joy, good, bad, and suffering that gives our lives a real perceptual quality of those terms in our lives. Without our emotions, then we cannot perceive these qualities. You have posited a scenario where getting euphoric highs off of a drug is a bad thing. Sure, it really would be a bad thing. But the drug user would not be able to perceive any of that bad value as long as he is getting high. If I were that drug user, I would still stop the drug anyway since I know the harm it would cause me. However, that is not the same thing as perceiving my drug addiction as a bad thing. That is just making a decision. Like I said, the intrinsic quality of this thought during my high would possess a neutral quality to it and, thus, cannot be any real perceived bad value. This means that we as human beings can still make decisions knowing the harm and consequences.

However, there would be no real perceived value in the absence of our emotions. Actually, in a way, I guess you could consider it to be a real perception of value. However, it would be a no quality standard of perceived value which would mean it really wouldn't be any real perceived quality of value. So, if anyone is gong to live their lives without their positive emotions, then that is a no quality standard of living. Living a life that has nothing but negative emotions would be a bad quality standard of living. The fact of the matter is, you need a perception that possess an intrinsic good or bad quality to make you perceive a real quality of good and bad value in your life. It is only our emotions that possess these inherent good and bad qualities. Remember, these intrinsic good and bad qualities are the profound and spiritual divine light and darkness in my analogy.

Instinct or not, it still does not possess the intrinsic quality to give one's life any real perception of value. It is nothing more than an instinct to aid our survival and the survival of others, but that is not the same thing as actually perceiving value. Going back to my additional note, I think it can only be the emotions themselves that truly possess the instinctive drive that gives our lives perceptual value. There were many moments in my life where I was completely hopeless and miserable due to an emotionally traumatic life event. Even though I have chosen to get help to change my life for the better, I could still clearly tell that my whole life and the whole idea of me getting help to change my life was not of any real perceived value and worth to me. But once I have fully recovered from these horrible moments, that is when I noticed that all of the perceived value automatically came back into my life again. It was like magic and not my way of thinking. This has led me to the definite conclusion that it is only our positive emotions that can allow us to truly perceive the good values in our lives. Before anyone objects, I know what these miserable moments were like for me.

I know this was not just my value judgment judging my life as something being without value. I can definitely tell the difference between a thought version of value versus a feeling version. The feeling version engulfs my whole entire reality in a state of either complete paradise or complete hell depending on how I feel. But the thought version is just a thought and nothing more. The intrinsic quality of thoughts alone are of a completely neutral quality which means these thoughts possess no intrinsic quality to them to give my life any real perceptual quality of value. I describe in my later packet that these intrinsic qualities that give our lives a real perception of value would be the divine light and spiritual darkness. Remember, it is just an analogy. If we lived in a purely naturalistic universe, then it is quite possible that consciousness would be nothing special and would just be the result of chemical and physical processes in the brain, it would be meaningless in a grand sense, and would possess no intrinsic qualities. But if our emotions really do possess intrinsic qualities, then it is quite possible that we live in either a spiritual universe or a naturalistic universe that somehow allows for these intrinsic qualities.

But my important question here is, can the divine light and spiritual darkness take on the form of a person's thinking besides his emotions and, thus, give this person a real perceptual quality of value without the need for any emotions? I'm not sure this is possible. I just can't possibly fathom a thought that can bring my life the immense amount of profound joy and value that I have had through my positive emotions and neither can I possibly fathom a thought that can bring my life all the immense suffering and horrible value that I have had through my struggles of emotional trauma and misery. That is the reason why I just have to come to the conclusion that it can only be our emotions that possess these intrinsic qualities. As long as we treat suffering, joy, and value as value judgments rather than intrinsic qualities, then we are only denying the existence of any real version of these qualities. That is showing a lack of empathy and compassion towards those who really do go through real suffering. It shows both a lack of compassion towards me and others who go through real suffering and it shows a lack of consideration towards my human need for real perceived joy and value in my life.

Additional Note: If, let's pretend, that I was telepathic and I could only communicate feelings rather than thoughts, then if I were to telepathically send you a feeling that I got from a certain character, you would be able to describe the attributes of this character to me. You would tell me that this character is beautiful, a joyful god or goddess out on a heavenly tropical adventure, etc. This clearly proves that our positive and negative emotions possess intrinsic qualities. Many people think they don't. They think it is all a matter of our value judgment that determines whether something is beautiful, good, or horrible to us. I am here to challenge this notion. I think it can only be our emotions that can make things beautiful or horrible to us.

Final Statement: This whole idea/theory of mine is a theory that could change the world. That is the reason why it is vital that I go in great length to fully discuss it. We currently rely on our value judgments to give perceptual value to our lives and I have every reason to think this is the wrong method. It is a theory that would help encourage others to find cures for depression and other illnesses that take away our positive emotions. I think a book needs to be published on this very subject that I have learned from my own struggles with depression and misery in my life. After all, where would we be without our positive emotions? If you were to perform a positive emotional expression such as closing your eyes in a profound stature at the wondrous sight of nature, but you were to have no positive emotion whatsoever, then this would be a contradiction. You would be forcing a certain expression that does not reflect your state of mind.

Likewise, all other positive emotional expressions such as helping others, making the best of life, thinking that you are perceiving value in your life, etc. in the absence of your positive emotions would not reflect your state of mind either. Therefore, that is why I find this whole value judgment version of perceptual value to be a contradiction because it says that you don't need your positive emotions in order to perceive value towards the helping of others and in making the best of life. This would have to mean that, the only thoughts and expressions that can truly reflect an apathetic state of mind would be those of a mere droid. What kind of life would that be? It's no way to live. Likewise, the only expressions and thoughts that can truly reflect a negative emotional state of mind would be negative thoughts and expressions.

So, how is it then that depressed and apathetic people are still able to have these positive thoughts of value in their lives and display these positive tones and expressions in the absence of their positive emotions? It would be due to the fact that they are deluded. They are forcing themselves to make the best of life anyway without their positive emotions and they think that is somehow a good and worthwhile life to them when it is not. These forceful expressions have become so natural to them that they are fooled into thinking their lives really are good to them. Or it could be the case that these depressed and apathetic people have, at least, a small amount of positive emotions to give them a small perceptual amount of value in their lives.

Nonetheless, go ahead and read the rest of the material in those logical arguments and you will see the point I am trying to make here. In addition, read my opening post because it also makes my point as well.

Hedonistic Logical Argument #1

Here is a logical argument that explains and sums up my philosophy. It is my 1st logical argument:

1.) Happiness can only be a positive emotional state induced by the biochemicals. This is a scientific fact. If you lose all of these chemicals and nothing you do can induce these chemical induced euphoric states, then you cannot have happiness. So, happiness can only be our euphoric states. Likewise, unhappiness can only be our dysphoric states while having neither happiness nor unhappiness can only be an apathetic state.

Lastly, happiness is a perceptual state like any other such as sight, hearing, thought, etc. But happiness is a positive toned state of mind (perceptual state) which means it is a state of mind that possesses an intrinsic good quality. It would, therefore, follow from here that unhappiness would be a negative toned state of mind which means it possesses an intrinsic bad quality while apathy would be a neutral toned state of mind which means it possesses an intrinsic neutral quality.

2.) Perceiving good value, worth, joy, beauty, liking, enjoyment, inspiration, and love can only be a perception for you that has a positive tone (an intrinsic good quality). In short, having perceptual good value and worth, along with joy, and beauty in your life is always a positive toned perceptual state no matter how you look at it. Even if you thought that a negative toned perception can be of good value to you, then this still presupposes a positive toned perception in despite of that negative toned one.

3.) Perceiving bad value, torment, suffering, hate, and misery can only be a perception for you that has a negative tone (an intrinsic bad quality). In short, having perceptual bad value, along with suffering, misery, and torment in your life is always a negative toned perceptual state no matter how you look at it. Even if you thought that a positive toned perception can be of bad value to you, then this still presupposes a negative toned perception in despite of that positive toned one.

4.) Perceiving neither good value, worth, bad value, joy, beauty, suffering, torment, or misery can only be a perception for you that has a neutral tone (an intrinsic neutral quality). In short, having neither perceptual good value, worth, nor bad value, along with having no suffering, misery, torment, or beauty in your life is always a neutral toned perceptual state no matter how you look at it. Even if you thought that a neutral toned perception can be of good value to you or bad value to you, then this still presupposes a positive or negative toned perception in despite of that neutral toned one.

5.) The intrinsic profoundness and intensity of these positive toned, negative toned, and neutral toned perceptual states dictate the level of perceived value. If you were in a very positive toned perceptual state, then you would be perceiving much good value and worth in your life. If you were in a very negative toned perceptual state, then you would be perceiving much bad value in your life. Likewise, if you were in a very neutral toned perceptual state, then you would be perceiving much neutral value in your life.

6.) Positive toned perceptual states can only be happiness, negative toned perceptual states can only be unhappiness, and neutral toned perceptual states can only be apathy. It is, therefore, only our euphoric states which can be the positive toned (happy) perceptual states, our dysphoric states which can be the negative toned (unhappy) perceptual states, and neither euphoria nor dysphoria being neither the positive or negative toned (neither happy nor unhappy) perceptual states.

Therefore,

Conclusion: It's actually not the conscious states themselves (i.e. our thoughts, outlooks, and value judgments alone) that possess the positive and negative tone. They do not possess any real intrinsic good or bad qualities. It is only our positive emotions that can allow us to perceive good value and worth in our lives, our negative emotions that can allow us to perceive bad value in our lives, and our apathy that can allow us to perceive neither good value, bad value, nor worth in our lives. You cannot be in any state of suffering, joy, misery, torment, hell, heaven, beauty, or perceived good value, bad value, and worth without your positive and negative emotions.

You could certainly have positive or negative thoughts in the absence of your positive and negative emotions. You could also display positive and negative tones and gestures without these emotions. But you would have no positive or negative toned conscious state to give your life any real perception of good and bad value. In addition, the intensity and profoundness of your positive and negative emotions dictates the level of perceived value in your life. Lastly, saying that all the positive and negative qualities I've mentioned above are all nothing more than a person's value judgment or mindset would be denying the existence of any real suffering, joy, etc. It would be treating them as judgmental qualities rather than qualities that are intrinsic to our everyday lives.

Hedonistic Logical Argument #2

1.) How you think is how you will feel. If you thought that something was good to you, but not all that great, then you will get a euphoric feeling from that which would be a euphoric feeling that possesses an intrinsic quality that isn't that great, but still good, nonetheless. Likewise, if you thought you were having the most beautiful moment of your life and you felt euphoric from that moment, then that euphoric feeling would possess an intrinsic quality to it that is the most beautiful and joyful.

2.) Thoughts are, in a way, like feelings. If you were telepathic and could only communicate feelings rather than thoughts, then the other person would still get the message of what it is you are telepathically communicating to him/her. In premise 1, I have clearly established that how you think is how you will feel. This means that our thoughts take on a different form. They become feelings. It's no different than how water takes on a different form when it freezes. It becomes ice. Even though it's ice, it is still water (H20).

3.) Referring to premise 2, it would follow that if you think something is beautiful to you and you got a euphoric feeling from that, since it is commonly believed that it is our thinking (value judgments) that make things beautiful to us, then it would have to be the case that the euphoric feeling you get would have to make things beautiful to you. Remember, I have clearly established that thoughts are, in a way, like feelings.

4.) Still referring back to premise 2, it is only the ice (euphoria) that can give our lives the perceptual quality of good value, worth, joy, beauty, and happiness. The liquid water (thoughts/outlooks alone) does not possess this quality. It's no different than a situation where you only had a frozen icee drink versus a hot melted one on a hot summer day. The hot melted one cannot give you the delicious frozen beverage you seek. There is no other frozen beverage out there. That is, there is no other euphoria out there to be obtained. This means that life itself is a desolate desert with only one frozen beverage (the frozen icee). That one frozen icee would be our positive emotions since you cannot have a euphoric state without your positive emotions.

Therefore,

Conclusion: It is only our positive and negative emotions that possess the intrinsic quality that give our lives a real perception of good value, bad value, worth, joy, happiness, and suffering. Our thoughts/outlooks alone simply do not possess this intrinsic quality for us.

Hedonistic Logical Argument #3

1.) Perceiving beauty, love, joy, good value, and worth in our lives is the most important thing to us as human beings. They are the higher, humanistic qualities we need in our lives.

2.) Our judgments do not dictate reality. For example, if we judged a person as ugly who had a daunting appearance, then that does not make the person ugly on the inside. For all we know, this could truly be a beautiful person on the inside. It is, therefore, what's on the inside that counts and not what's on the outside.

3.) Consciousness is also the most important and precious thing. Without it, then we would either be dead or unconscious. We also wouldn't be able to perceive any of the qualities mentioned in premise 1. There are also many mysterious about consciousness that we still have yet to figure out.

Therefore,

Conclusion: Our value judgments do not dictate what type of perception we have in our lives (i.e. joyful, good, bad, beautiful, horrible, etc.). So, it is not our judgments that are important here. Rather, it is what's on the inside that truly matters (our consciousness). It is, therefore, the type of conscious state or emotional state we have that determines whether something truly is hell, joy, or horrible for us or not just as how it's what type of person he/she truly is on the inside that determines who he/she really is. If you disagree with my conclusion, then, like I said, there are still many mysterious about consciousness that we don't know and my whole theory could be one of these mysteries.

Let me post 3 logical arguments to make my point clear:

I think they are a form of perception like sight and hearing. Sight and hearing are forms of awareness that allow you to perceive objects and sound.