Comments

  • Taxes
    And spending never slows…NOS4A2

    Never will... it is frustrating to see how modern states borrow themselves far more than they can afford.
  • Ukraine Crisis
    Why can't they just quit their resistance to the invasion and let Russia rampage over the rest of the country? No one would care (except for Ukrainians, but they aren't even a people, so they don't count).SophistiCat

    Not all the Ukranians are opposed to Russia. The more closer you go to Russian border you would see that their citizens root for Russia instead of Western world or NATO. This is a complex issue and it is not about all Ukrainians are against the invasion. Probably, the citizens of Kiev are nationalists but I doubt if the citizens from Jerson or Crimea have the same feelings.
  • Taxes
    Well, if this public expenditure would go to science and real state it would be acceptable. But it will be vanish in defense spending...

    Zelensky's selfishness and Putin's incompetence is destroying all the savings of workers in many countries.
  • Ukraine Crisis
    Also Poland was as much responsible for WWII as Hitler and Stalin.SophistiCat

    The subject is different. While Poland is country with his own history, language, culture and system, Ukraine is basically a little Russia. Putin's behaviour is not good and he is responsible of criminal wars.
    But please... don't let the nationalists as Zelensky say that they are "Western world" and so "different from Russia" when they even share the same alphabet. In the other hand, we do not see any move by Ukraine to end this war... he is acting selfish and is choking the world economy just for his nationalist business. He is acting like the rest of the world is not in trouble...

    Did Poland act as Ukraine is now acting? I think not...

    This war has to end and Ukraine must accept his reality.
  • The Prevalent Mentality
    What do you think of these thoughts?Bug Biro

    I don't get the correlation between prevalent mentality and "inequality" that ends up with psychosis. I just see all your arguments very twisted.

    Most "sane" people blindly comply or consent to the mistreatment of themselves and others. Most people deemed "insane" placed faith in friends, family, and authorities undeserving of trust and were devastated by betrayal.Bug Biro

    These are very general arguments. Not all the persons act with the same pattern. There is not an absolute truth towards of how the individuals or authorities should act.

    People are tranquil of unjust societies and at peace with being controlled by severely corrupt, if not absolutely evil, governanceBug Biro

    I think not. Look at the revolutions of Iran or Peru.

    Most of the governments are corrupt anyway... so it is very difficult to make a comparative with those who live under a government with zero corruption.
  • Ukraine Crisis
    Lula has said that Zelenskiy is "as responsible as Putin for the war".ssu

    He is right.
  • Bannings


    Understandble. I comply the resolution. :up:
  • Bannings
    Banned Bartricks for a consistently disruptive and insulting attitude. Long overdue really.Jamal

    I have debated with Bartricks in some threads. I am sorry if my arguments or behaviour were one of the causes of his disruptive attitude.

    I have never written in Bannings thread because I understand that every member must respect the rules of the forum, and even after notice him, he keeps the same attitude, is understandable de banning.

    Nevertheless, I will miss him because I interacted usually. My feelings are weird...
  • Recognizing greatness
    Believing that one is great does not imply that one is indeed great.

    Which serves to raise the issue, if your "greatness" is unrecognised, then by what criteria are you great? If at all?
    Banno

    :up:
  • Recognizing greatness
    There were two inter-related points I was making. First, the great will believe themselves to be great, for that seems to be required actually to be great. Second, the great will 'know' that they are great - not simply unjustifiably believe it - for their belief in their own greatness will be based on their having discerned it. So they have available to them evidence of their own greatness that others - most others, anyway - will not have access to.Bartricks

    Understandable. But what I don't see is why you are using a logical premise system to describe the greatness of an artist. According to your analysis, it looks like that it is necessary to reach premise 1 and premise 2 to reach the greatness in a work.
    Again, I still think your points are only the way you see them. There are other artists who don't think about themselves that they are "great" but nonetheless, they are amazing creators and most of the people recognised them.
    So, the evidence in greatness is a complex cause. As I said previously, we are debating about abstract concepts such as art and literature. Whatever you think is great, it could be in the average for others. Just look at Picasso. There are a lot of people who really like his works, but in the other hand, others who just don't see his talent...

    Where is the evidence of Picasso's greatness?
    Picasso never thought he was great. He painted trying to change the rules of his period.
    Each artist has their own specific context.

    That's also why they are not necessarily guilty of any arrogance just by virtue of believing themselves to be great. They are analogous to the doctor who believes that the mole is cancerous and is unfazed and dismissive of the fact all of your friends believe it to be benignBartricks

    No, I don't see any analogy here. The doctor is doing his job and putting in practice his knowledge after years of studying. Doctor gives me an analysis of the cancerous mole. He doesn't think about himself: I am great so I guess this mole is cancerous...
    That's what every doctor does. It is his job and what is being paid for.
    Sorry but I don't see a correlation between the practice of medicine and abstract practice as art or literature.

    He did. Read his letters. He considered his first proper masterpiece to be the potato eaters. He fell out with his best and only friend at the time precisely because that person - also an artist, though a very inferior one - criticized itBartricks

    What I said: arrogance.

    I have made a philosophical case for the great being aware of their own greatness: to be great is to be able to recognize what is great - for how else would one go about producing great works or thoughts without exercising that ability? And to be great is to have done great things, which one could not do unless one attempted to do them - something that requires belief that one can do them.Bartricks

    But be able to recognise what is great we should define greatness in the first place and I don't think it is easy to find out a definition of such abstract concept.

    What is the meaning of greatness Bartricks? Do you consider yourself as great?
  • Taxes
    Tax hike in Japan due to defense spending. The Ukraine-Russia war is impoverishing every middle-class family in the world.

    Tax hike plan for defense spending OK’d, despite lack of schedule

    Kishida on Dec. 8 announced that Japan would need 1 trillion yen (ONE F*CKING TRILLION) ($7.3 billion) more in tax revenue by fiscal 2027 to fund the defense spending increase of 17 trillion yen over the five-year period from fiscal 2023 through fiscal 2027.

    Although the research commission agreed that personal income, corporate and cigarette taxes would be raised, it put off until next year a decision on when those increases would kick in.

    The government, in turn, could end up planning specific programs and projects to enhance the nation’s defense capabilities amid uncertainties overhow the measures will be paid for.

    Under the research commission’s plan, a 1-percent tax will be tacked on to the personal income tax to pay for defense, while the special tax for reconstruction from the 2011 natural disasters will be cut from 2.1 percent to 1.1 percent.

    The cigarette tax will be gradually raised for a total hike of 3 yen per cigarette.

    For fiscal 2027, the government and ruling coalition are seeking to secure between 700 billion yen and 800 billion yen in corporate taxes and about 200 billion yen each in cigarette and personal income taxes.

    But with no specific start for the tax hikes, it is unclear if those figures can be reached.

    Japan to increase defense budget by ¥1 trillion in fiscal 2023
  • Brazil Election
    Read Mishima and Ishihara and you would understand me.
  • Brazil Election
    But their internal political status has no impact on China, Japan or South Korea?universeness

    No. Not at all. I guess there is some influence around NATO political affairs, but I don't see big impacts on Japanese or Chinese internal political decisions.
  • Brazil Election
    My position that in our current global society, what happens in America is unhealthily aped globally, remains.universeness

    No. Whatever happens in America doesn't usually have important impact in Asia. We think we are copies of USA because we live in Western world (the world they dominate). But these political conflicts will no have any effect in Japan, South Korea or China. They just see the things completely different from us.
  • Hyper short stories.


    Good hyper short story. I liked it because I can't stop imaging the specific picture where a family express those interjections while the phone is ringing. A very simple and original scene :up:
  • The Subject as Subjected: Self vs Identity in Our Social Context
    But we do have a metaphysical conception of self. And I disagree with Allan. The reason why you recognize this discordance within the social context is because you believe in a metaphysical self, too.Caldwell

    :up:
  • Recognizing greatness
    First, you're thinking that brilliant people are also virtuous people. There's no necessary connection. Brilliant thinkers and artists think they're brilliant. Whether that is consistent with being virtuous or not is beside the pointBartricks

    I am not thinking there is a connection between brilliant and virtuous. Both concepts are so opened to interpretation. It wasn't even my original thought in this debate.
    Well, to be honest with you, (now that you referred to such concept) I personally think virtue is something we should take care of in terms of art. It is not indispensable to hold virtues to be brilliant, but at the same time not everyone is capable of painting or writing. So, those who are capable are at the same time, virtuous.

    Second, how is one arrogant if one believes that oneself is brilliant on the basis of discerning it?Bartricks

    You didn't mention any basis in your previous arguments. You just said that: "if we think we are brilliant, we would be capable of doing good works. If we don't think positive about ourselves、we would never try anything"
    I already said that I am (more or less) agree with your point: yes, it is necessary to believe we are doing something "great" to keep doing our goals and works. But thinking "I am great" no matter the circumstances could be a symptom of arrogance because there will be always people who would not like our works and we have to accept it.
    Again, I still think that, paradoxically, the great masters never thought they were greater than the rest. We are the ones who classified them as "great".

    When a doctor judges that the mole on your arm is probably cancerous, and that same doctor is dismissive of the judgements of your friends, who all judge the mole just to be a mole, is the doctor being arrogant?Bartricks

    The friends are the ones who are acting arrogantly here. The doctor is doing his job. (I guess we are both agree in this case)

    So, when Van Gogh judged his own works to be masterpieces and dismissed the views of those who judged them to be childish and silly, he was not being arrogant. For his works were indeed masterpieces and he was perceiving this quality in them.Bartricks

    To be honest, I doubt Van Gogh ever judged his own works as "masterpieces". He thought he was doing different art from the rest and criticized those who didn't understand as childish because they weren't aware of such a good artist.
    Nevertheless, this is not a good argument or conclusion in favour of Van Gogh. Art is an abstract interpretation. You are free to interpret it they way you want. I think is respectful to don't see Van Gogh as good as he (supposedly) seen himself.
  • The Shoutbox should be abolished
    0⃣javi2541997

    Windows doing weird maths for me. I am scared now... Probably someone is hacking my computer. That's what happens when you use DuckDuckGo.
    0⃣
    
  • The Shoutbox should be abolished
    I see. I thought I wasn't able to call him friend, mate, buddy, etc... Because I didn't meet him yet inside this online symposium.
    Nevertheless, you are right. I think the word user represents the nothingness or the zero 0⃣ in terms of computational digits.

    I think I should call him for his name now on.
  • The Shoutbox should be abolished

    If you are worried that much I promise my comment was not lascivious.
  • The Shoutbox should be abolished
    Not only interesting, but also a thoroughly decent fellow.Jamal

    Good to hear such honourable attribute in a person. I wish I can meet him one day too.
  • What are you listening to right now?
    It’s too early in the day for vaporwave!Jamal

    I am alone in my room studying law because I have an exam tomorrow. Vaporwave gives me a relax mood! I am in the perfect environment to listen it!
  • The Shoutbox should be abolished
    Mayor of Simpleton joined at the beginning of TPF,Jamal

    His profile information is full in Japanese! So cool :cool:
    I wish he can shows up around TPF again, he seems to be an interesting user.

    Edit: I start following him. Just in case he comes back.
  • Recognizing greatness
    :up: I am agree with your points now. But, I would fix this phrase:

    Thus, great thinkers and artists think they're great?Bartricks

    I would say artists think they are different from the rest but not greater. They are aware of doing original works, completely distinct from we are used to see. Whenever an artist ends a work I don't think he has in mind thoughts as "look how great I am" but the mind rest of finishing a work where he feels unique, personal, individual, etc...

    Thinking of being great after finishing something could be a sense of arrogance...
  • Recognizing greatness
    if you don't think you're great, you won't try and do great things. And so you won't do great things. You need to think you're capable of doing great things to try and do them.Bartricks

    Or I just want to do great things because I want to, without the aim of being considered by the rest of the people. Maybe I just paint a portrait because I want to express myself not caring about being great

    Furthermore, you started this post about recognising greatness, but you didn't provide a definition of great. Your arguments are based on a positive attitude towards our goals. Before to acknowledge that, we have to reflect on greatness. What do you consider as greatness? Because we all have different points of view and we shall not share the same view on greatness.
  • The Shoutbox should be abolished
    I see. Thanks for proofreading me, Clarky :up:
  • Recognizing greatness
    Sorry. Yes, I guess I am inflexible because I can get out of my mind and am capable of understanding more diverse behaviour patterns. You, on the other hand, are more flexible, because you can't imagine how some behaviour patterns are possible, due to the fact that you can't understand them.god must be atheist

    ... you are using sarcasm, right?
  • Recognizing greatness
    Well... the author creates the works. How can you seperate "author who never finishes his works" from the author?god must be atheist

    It is not possible at all, that's true (or at least, very difficult). But I am not referring (for example) of finishing a novel of 250 pages. That's not the type of "ending" I am thinking of. I am talking about recognition. If someone burns all their works he will never get recognition at all, so the circle will not be closed.

    Well, at least that's how I see it...
  • Recognizing greatness
    In other words, please allow people their individuality, and individual judgment without judging them.god must be atheist

    It is not necessary to see "judgement" as a negative mark. We are even using the incorrect word here. I am thinking of recognition rather than judgement. I will always respect the artist's indidualism. Most of the artists are independent and individualistic. I just want to recognise their works. Why not?

    No, it does not. Where did you get that? Leonardo da Vinci, one of the most prolific creators of all times, had been criticised by Michelangelo for not completing his works.god must be atheist

    I am not referring to the works but the author.

    People are diverse. You can't make everyone comply to your values. And why should they? Because you don't see their point?god must be atheist

    I see their point but I don't understand it. Simple. I guess the only who is inflexible here is you
  • Recognizing greatness
    Why destroy the works if they are great?
    1. The world is not deserving of them.
    god must be atheist

    Why I am not deserve to see your works? Am I worse than you?
    Who are we to judge the world doesn't deserve our works and art?

    Waste of time? No. The creative process is fun, and at times therapeutical.god must be atheist

    It is fun and therapeutical, that's true. But the creative process needs a conclusion. Like a perfect circle where you start in a point and then you end up in the same but with recognition. I cannot conclude and close the circle if I burn or destroy my works. In most of the cases, artists tend to represent a expression of themselves and the society in their works. Thanks to their talent we can see "reality" with other eyes.
    In the other hand: I bet that the artist who burns their works would end up regretting such action.
  • Recognizing greatness
    And there are an untold number of artists and writers who burn their work before they die.

    You don't hear of them, you don't see their works, but they are out there.
    god must be atheist

    Yes, I know. But I still see it as a waste of time. What is the clue of writing a poem if I will burn it down? I would understand it if you vanish the works because you don't like them.
    I mean: every artist feels attached to their own works. If they burn them, they are vanishing with them too.

    Franz Kaffka.god must be atheist

    We are lucky this amazing writer never destroyed his works!
  • Recognizing greatness
    and there are people who do not need that.god must be atheist

    Well, these kind of artists make the art to themselves, then. I see your point and I am somehow agree, but I don't understand the cause of writing a book or painting a landscape if no one ever would read or see them.
    It would be a sorrow for these works to never been shown to anyone ever...
  • Recognizing greatness
    I disagree.

    "Great" people don't know they are extraordinary. Never. When you want to do different things from the ordinary, there are a lot of chances to suffer criticism. This is what happened to Van Gogh or James Joyce. A good example of masters in literature and arts. Their works are magnificent but with the eyes of modern generations. Van Gogh was poor because nobody really bought any of his paints and James Joyce was not well understood by the literature critics.
    So, to become "great" needs a lot of facts than just thinking I am good. You (we) need the approval from the rest of the people.

    Secondly: I don't know if an artist makes his stuff just to show he is good or "great". For example: I took part in short story contest of this forum. When I finished my story in my computer I didn't think: "this is supreme". I was just proud of myself because I was able to conjugate words and make an original story. I was happy. Nevertheless, I was pessimistic towards the opinions from the members. I thought they would not like it or I would receive negative comments. It ended good and I received good feedback but I wasn't my intention.

    We can make a test about this topic. I going to share my short story with you: Wake up, newborns! and I am opened to your comments and criticism. I am not hoping my story is "great" indeed...
  • The Shoutbox should be abolished
    You should look up the meaning of "shout." Also "literal."T Clark

    I wanted to say that he complained about "shoutbox" while he "shouted" in his posts in this thread. It is a paradox :smile:

    I think Wayfarer thought the same:

    ‘Shouting has no place’, he shoutedWayfarer
  • Coronavirus
    Anyway, I think China needs to start being more sensible and cooperative. It will be better for Chinese citizens and the rest of the world. I still do not understand why Xi Jinping acts in suck way. We are not debating on economics and digits but human lives.

    China’s neighbors wary of dubious Covid data as they brace for influx of travelers

    The official Covid-19 data released by China is proving to be unreliable. In December, internal documents were leaked that put the number of infections for that month at 248 million, but only 450,000 were reported to the World Health Organization (WHO). In other words, China only reported one of every 550 cases.
  • Coronavirus
    But of course there's no magic bullet, no guarantees or certain stoppage, it's life, bathed in organics and other hazards. I guess every bit helps (if done (right)).jorndoe

    :up:
  • The Shoutbox should be abolished
    You literally shouted when you had started this thread...
  • Papal infallibility and ex cathedra.
    I see and agree with your point of view. Even, I also think a faithful figure should not have such proportion of authority and power. His persona ends up as a political lobby/machine rather than a moral cursor.
    Nevertheless, though, I guess such authority and power is needed (in a believing and practical Catholic perspective). We are debating about a person whose sermons have influence around the world. How can you reach that without authority?
    Well, I guess, that was one of the main strategies of the church in the past.