It’s a thread I love and I think Javi feels the same way. — T Clark

I do. :up:

Interesting thread.

First, I think you are actually arguing against Christianity as an institution, not the religion. I can't disagree with you on the fact that Christendom got a lot of influence when it became the main religion of the Christian Empire. Also, it was very relevant when it started to spread around the "pagan" territories of the Rus (what is now Russia and Ukraine). They quickly erased their polytheism and then started to build churches and establish Christianity as the real and only dogma. There are books written by Mircea Cartarescu about this; they are very good and intriguing. I recommend them to you.

On the other hand, it is relevant to remark on the words of Kazantzakis when he did a pilgrimage to the Sinai Desert: Christianity is both too optimistic and too boring.

I think K's reflection on how Christianity works can help us to understand why it had much success in the world when it appeared to be a complex way of thinking in the beginning. Another example written by Kazantazakis: he is with a Greek Orthodox priest in a monastery, and then K asked him, brother what does God look like to you? And then the priest answered,God is in the eyes and the smile of every child. Kazantzakis got upset at such an ambiguous answer, and he replied back, saying, Isn't God supposed to be a flame that you can be burned by if you touch it?

Perhaps this is why it had much success. It is too optimistic for the reasons you expressed, but it is also "boring" in the sense that it doesn't encourage people to actually think in another way; it is repetitive and based on dull ceremonies (baptism, marriage, funeral), which makes its impact easier. Back in the day we had other ways of behaving when someone died. Now you know what we have to do because it was well established for the past 2,000 years.

Would you call Jesus a philosopher? — Tom Storm

I am just the son of Mary of Joseph. - Jesus in The Last Temptation by Kazantzakis. :smile:

Notice that perhaps he never said he was the Son of God.

I love the water sound–it makes me feel relaxed.

:up:

Glad to know you enjoyed your time there.

I thought it was a peaceful place when I saw the photos, indeed. I think they are doing a good job humanising those spaces. I really love this type of initiative – when the city is designed for the citizens and not for the cars.

This is very interesting and worth reading—the University of Leeds complex was a prototype for the Barbican, and the work done to it over time demonstrates how brutalist buildings can be humanised, writes Alan Radford. The Barbican refurbishment.



I just learnt about the Barbican-brutalist style and how the UK is working on its refurbishment. It is important to notice that the goal of the project is to make the buildings more comfortable or loving to people, but they are not considered ugly or outdated. Perhaps, after this project is done, some folks (who dislike this type of architecture) would see brutalist arts-and-towers in a different way.

I honestly think the staircase of the photo is pretty cool, by the way.

The Museum of Innocence by Orhan Pamuk.

Canada is a gorgeous country. But if you want to be a tourist for some days, you should come and visit Spain, Banno! We will not disappoint you.

Don't go to Barcelona. I dislike talking trash about my country, but catalanes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalonia) are not in the best mood nowadays.

Gracias, homie. — 180 Proof

:up: :cool:

I've listened to several, including his most acclaimed records:

Bicentennial Nigger. — 180 Proof

I love the name. It is even better than "That Nigger's crazy". :rofl:

Yeah, it could be, especially "PC" and "anti-woke" times like today. — 180 Proof

I understand.

It was my first time listening to Richard Pryor's 1974 vinyl called That Nigger's Crazy.

Honestly, the name of the title grabbed my attention because, as far as I am concerned, the N-word is controversial. In most cases, it is used with a racial slur, I guess. I searched it on YouTube, and luckily the album is complete.

Richard Pryor made jokes about the differences in the lifestyles of black and white American people. I didn't understand some of them, but the way he communicates is very funny.

The album was released in November 1975, and it won the Grammy Award for Best Comedy Album. Fifty years passed since then, and a lot of things changed. I think we became more bitter. Perhaps in the 1970s it was funny to make jokes about the sociological "differences" between Black and white people. But now I believe this sense of humor is gone. Furthermore, I can't imagine an album being called "nigger" nowadays.

I'd like to dedicate this album to @180 Proof. You are the only black person from the USA with whom I have interacted. Have you ever attended a Richard Pryor show or listened to his performances? Do you think that the name of the title might be offensive out of its context?

Yes. @Mijin's answers also seem to be far less positive. But it is not an issue. I learned a lot reading the opinion of each of you. They all are very nice. Even more clear and explicit than Fermi's paradox formulation. :sweat:

I know you are positive unlike the rest of the participants. :snicker:

Assuming every intelligent civilization lasts for 1 million years, what is the likelihood that there would be any time overlap in the civilizations? Even if there were 40 civilizations all at the same time, with the distances between them, it seems unlikely there would be any possible contact. — T Clark

A very well-written reply.

It is true that distance is one of the main obstacles, and it makes the possible contact very hard or even almost impossible. However, I see plausible that there are civilizations living together at the same time. I think that the lack of sending and receiving broadcasts successfully doesn't mean they are not there. Perhaps Fermi should have formulated the paradox in another way, because he stated that these Earth-like citizens could have had a sophisticated way of communication, but they wouldn't want to communicate with us, paradoxically.

Interesting. What I learnt from your responses in this thread is that most of you are pessimistic on the probability of a possible contact.

That is not to mention that our planet was hit by an asteroid (or meteor?) that wiped-out the dinosaurs and arguably paved the way for the emergence of intelligent life. So while life may be a more likely occurrence on a planet that is similar to Earth in key respects, intelligent life may be far more rare. — NotAristotle

Yes, I almost forgot this important feature. Our planet was hit by a rocky object but fortunately was not very destructive. Therefore, there is a big possibility that the same happened to the Earth-like planets. This makes the chances of finding intelligent life even lower. :confused:

Interesting argument. Yes, it is true that one of the flaws of this paradox is that we are making a claim about all the species, always. However, I think it is worth beaming signals to the vast universe. Perhaps we will reach more conclusions in the future; perhaps not. Better this than waiting to receive the broadcast from the other "neighbors." :rofl:

Add then the fact that radio signal get weaker when the ranges get longer. — ssu

This is true, ssu.

Yet the topic gets intriguing when we fantasize about the possibility that another intelligent life may be able to send a better broadcast.

I agree, Tom.

This is what I like the most about this topic – it is open to many interpretations, and I consider them all valid. Furthermore, I am learning a lot precisely from having different perspectives. :smile:

Yes, in a relative sense we might be "early" but even that tentative estimate still suggests around a billion rocky worlds before ours. And that's just in our galaxy. — Mijin

we are one of the very first intelligent species. — NotAristotle

I also think we are not the very first intelligent species. As pointed out, the estimate suggests around a billion rocky worlds before ours, so it is difficult to believe that we are actually the only intelligent species in the universe. However, given that we accept this point, perhaps we should start to wonder why they would want to communicate with us, or perhaps they have already been here but we never noticed it. It appears that we are in the middle of this paradox—whether they would rather not communicate or they already did.

NOTE: When I say "they," I am referring to the possible intelligent lives of Earth-like planets.

Of course, if nobody broadcasts then the chance of any communication plummets. — NotAristotle

This is ture. Indeed, there is a positive aspect to that assertion.

Walk me through better to not have crossed paths; why would that be so? — NotAristotle

Understandable. Perhaps the rest of the civilisations on the Earth-like planets are thinking the same thing right now. We always tend to select the cautious choice.

Or, to try to narrow it down a bit further, maybe the question of "odds" is really a question of just how similar other planets are to Earth, the closer the similarity, the more likely the chances of life on that planet. — NotAristotle

I agree.

Now that we got to this point, I think it is worth asking ourselves: would they (the civilisations of an Earth-like planet) show themselves to us if they were capable of doing it?

Furthermore, what if it is actually better for us and for them that our paths haven't crossed yet?

Is it considered a false dilemma because the chance theory appears to present only two possibilities, when in reality there could be many?

Now that you bring this up, I think the chance theory (or whatever it is called) forces us to make a choice/decision between extremes.

As it happens I’m writing a novel on the subject of the propagation of life. — Wayfarer

Wow! This is very intriguing!

The timescale on when an ETI would be expected to send out a radio signal will consider 1. the odds of abiogenesis, and as ↪Wayfarer pointed out, 2. the times at which those planets formed. — NotAristotle

; @Wayfarer

Does this really depend on the act of randomness or chance that much?

Perhaps there is also another lifeform in the whole galaxy who is wondering exactly the same—if we (or they) are the only civilization in this vast system of stars.

So what are the odds of two matches being lit at the same time? You see the point? Other civilizations might have preceeded ours by tens of millions of years, or conversely we might have preceeded theirs by the same factor. Of course, all wild guesswork, but something to consider. — Wayfarer

Yep. Very nice point, Wayfarer. :up:

I remember this thread very well. EnPassant had two delightful moments: and .

I regret asking him to prove that God created the universe if God actually did. It was plainly a strawman fallacy.

Perhaps I need to focus on why a mathematical concept is evidence of God's existence, but at the same time, it needs a mind to originate in.

If a mathematical concept needs a mind to originate in, then God's existence follows the same fate.

I requested Michael in The Shoutbox to ban me; he can do it whenever he wants from now on because it is "morally praiseworthy" to keep me away from my addictions and emotional instability, as the philosopher stated.

The result appears to be the same: justify yourself to drag others into the gutter.

So, If I ask you to help me kill myself twice, you will do it without winking, because I am an "adult".

This is surprising, coming from a "philosopher" like you.

That would be a bit weird wouldn't it? "Can I be banned for 45 days after which I will have calmed down and want to come back please?" — bert1

No, it is not weird. This is what the "suspended" status is intended for.

I don't understand what either you or javi2541997 are expecting of us. — Michael

I expected that you would have given him the opportunity to calm down and reflect about his words. Perhaps, he might have thought it twice, and the situation would be different.

Well, I know I have to carry on and leave it there. Banned members do not come back, so I guess my arguments are flat and worthless.

Yeah, "hard cheese, mate" blah, blah, blah.

You are rude, Michael.

He wasn't serious at all. He just felt confused and perhaps anxious, but you knocked him down without a shred of compassion.

-first of all, on the phone version of the website, you tap on the number of notifications you get in the side bar, across from "you", and it brings you to a list of responses people recently had to your content. However, getting back to that page, after you address the first response, is not so easy specifically on the phone browser. On the desktop version of the website, this is better and easier: you just click on "you" and go to "mentions" and then you can look at all your recent responses. — ProtagoranSocratist

I also experienced some struggle with using TPF on the phone. You are right that it is clearly easier to use it on the desktop version. I concluded that PlushForums are for PCs, not phones. However, I think the matter is actually a software owner's issue rather than Jamal's.

i did not see it pop up on the front page after i posted it, and i could not find my most recent added comment in my "comment" section on my profile.So i had to conclude that Jamal erased my comment, and then unfortunately I later found this wasn't the case... — ProtagoranSocratist

Perhaps, there was a bug when you posted it. Check your drafts, is still the comment there or at least part of it?

Bird on a fence by Dario Dzamonja.

The title of this book was translated by me. I couldn't find on the Internet the exact short story compilation by Dzamonja. However, there is a collection called "Letters from the Madhouse", and perhaps it includes the same short stories.

The Spanish edition is called "Pájaro en el alambre", which literally means "bird on a wire". However, in the Spanish context, the term "alambre" also refers to a fence. And, since the short stories are based on Yugoslavian wars, I thought that the translation and interpretation I did were more correct.

What can I say about Dario Dzamonja? Sorrowfully, he died young; aged 46 in 2001 after finishing the Yugoslavian wars. He left as a legacy several memorable manuscripts, and his friends collected them.

His own biographical note in the 2001 edition (Post-mortem) of Letters from the Madhouse simply said: "My name is Dario Džamonja. I was born in Sarajevo in 1955. I died in Sarajevo in 1993 when I left it. I died again in 1998 when I left America and my children. Now I'm trying to live again in Sarajevo from my writing."

Enjoy.

Indeed, it takes time to get around to reading them. The issue (though I hesitate to call it an "issue") arises when you discover a new style of literature that deeply captivates you. I planned to read many Russian writers this year, and the result has been good but far away from what I expected. I discovered authors from Eastern European countries whose books captivated me to the point of becoming very fond of them.

Yes, and I want to keep it in a category which is not hidden from the main page. — Jamal

Wonderful! What a great idea! :up:

@Jamal

Perhaps this question may be obvious – will the "Currently Reading" thread also be part of the new TPF version on Discourse.org?

It helps me a lot to remember what I read during the year. Furthermore, thanks for your comments and recommendations; I discovered good and intriguing authors.

:wink:

@T Clark

Hey Clarky, I come with a 1950s American film recommendation this time. Perhaps you have already watched it or heard of this film.

It is called Edge of the City. It was directed in 1957, starring John Cassavetes and Sidney Poitier.

I really love black-and-white films. This was very good.

I searched more info on Google and it says that In 2023, the film was selected for preservation in the United States National Film Registry by the Library of Congress as being "culturally, historically or aesthetically significant."

Does this count as a classic?

I think yes! :grin:

In other words, if we do our best to be above board, we'll be fine in the UK. — Hanover

:up: :up:
.

Rather than an argument against forming a UK company, this seems to be an argument against existing at all. — Jamal

:up: :up:

A UK limited company is very simple. In contrast, a non-profit or charitable incorporated organisation (CIO) or similar would mean a lot of bureaucracy, at least in the UK. — Jamal

As it has to be. You clearly stated that you want to set up the new version of TPF according to a legal framework. This limited company will be run in the UK, according to British law. I don't see any problem with this. Wondering whether someone would sue me or not for "consumer, financial or legitimate damages" is a bit twisted.

I think some folks are obsessed with the stateless oasis they wish to live in...You do very well to start the company in British territory since you are a UK citizen. It is logical and understandable. It gives me confidence. Setting it up in a tax haven like the Netherlands or Belice would be odder, I think.