But you know, you can't always judge a book by its cover... — Amity

Wholeheartedly. :cool:

Not sure about the 'bird' thing... but does it matter? — Amity

It doesn't matter; I agree. But it is very curious because it makes me wonder whether those members coincide in the bird thumbnail randomly or not.
Look! A thread was even started towards this 'thing' :lol: --

Why do so many people on here have bird thumbnails?

The spooky curiosity remains after three years. :smile:

For 6yrs I didn't see any reason to change it.
What did it matter? — Amity

Yes, I know it is not a big deal, but the profile picture is something curious. Some have a lot of birds on it (Jamal, T Clark, hypericin, etc.) And others have the same picture since I joined the first time (Benkei, creativesoul, Janus, etc.); and then, those who even show their real identity (Jack Cummins or Mikie). I wonder if we are recognised on TPF due to our profile pic or just our username. Hmm... :chin:

It's not just an apple, though, is it? A butterfly is emerging from it, or through it. From a chrysalis. — Amity

Exactly. Dali painted life and death in that apple. It is a very clever drawing. The worm and the apple; the first enters the second, and the progress of life goes on. The painting left me reflecting on some deep thoughts the first time I saw it.

Is this about Eve's plucking the forbidden fruit leading to knowledge? The Creation story in the Bible. — Amity

No, no. The Dali's apple is not Biblical, and I think he never painted something religious. The point was to be surrealist or even dreamy.

I wonder why some people stick and others move on... — Amity

I wonder exactly the same!

And can't even remember what you had before! — Amity

I had the cover of a Japanese film—called The Eel.

I had no idea when I uploaded my profile pic (yesterday) of its symbolism. Yet, it's so 'right' for me! — Amity

I thought that when I saw you changed your profile image. The blue flower belongs to your personality—hope and the pursuit of art. I honestly think it is better now than when you had that soulless 'A' in your profile.

I changed my profile picture a lot of times. Now I have an apple painted by Dali. I will keep this painting for a long time, no doubt about that. I love apples and surrealism.

Salvador Dalí Art Gallery

Deleted.

The Seducer's Diary. by Kierkegaard.

Firstly, I think it is notoriously to say that Kierkegaard's works are difficult to translate into our languages. I spent more than half an hour finding out on the Internet the proper translation of Forførerens Dagbog in English. My edition is in Spanish, which was translated from Danish in 2008. So, I think it is an accurate edition.

On the other hand, is there a Danish mate here in TPF? If so, please explain why the Danish language used by Kierkegaard is that complex to translate.

Edit: Thirdly, the book is a collection of fragments from a personal diary, where Kierkegaard shows his anxious love towards Regina Olsen. :heart:

she gives all the thoughts at a moment and you feel like you are living in that characters brain. — Burcu

Yes, it is fascinating. It reminds me of Melancholia by Fosse. The main character is Lars Hertervig. A Norwegian painter who suffered from a mental illness. Fosse gives all the thoughts and the anxiety of Lars at the same time that he relates to the outside world. A complex writing style that only a few are able to do. Well, Fosse is a Nobel laureate -- as well as Pamuk. I just checked your profile info, and you are Turkish! :smile:

Hope it didnt tuned our to be commercial i really get thrilled as i mentioned — Burcu

It is fine! We are often very emotional with some authors and novels. I remember being very obsessed with Mishima and Japanese literature a few years ago. We want to share this feeling with others, and this is gorgeous. :up:

Hello, welcome to TPF.

And most importantly the thing i love about her writing is she is writing with all the parts that live in our mind — Burcu

She writes without quotation marks, without dividing conversations but you can still follow and realize who is the one talking to who — Burcu

If anyone is out there who has same taste with me i will be glad to know — Burcu

Well, according to that writing style, I also like some authors whose novels are similar to the one you are currently reading. But only in regard to the style, not the topic.

For example -- Jon Fosse and José Saramago always wrote in that way. Without dividing conversations and the format is written all in a row. Fosse doesn't even use chapters. I think Saramago either.

Yep, what I don't get is why we don't let them join the Eurozone. They deserve to have the euro as the primary currency. What can you do with Polish złoty? Nothing. As well as the Czech Republic, they still have their own currency (korunas).

So, the EU should give these countries the opportunity of joining the Euro-zone finally.

On the other hand, I only hope that France and Germany will be more fond and considerate of Mediterranean countries. That would be neat.

@fdrake

I finished the book (My Struggle 1).

It is complicated to do a review in such a deep book. I think it has a lot of crucial parts, but Knausgård focuses on one point: loneliness. I have been jotting down the parts where he felt that way -- 15 years old; 30 years old; and when he is currently writing the book, around 40 years old or so.

There are different stages where Knausgård feels lonely. The relationship with his father, rather than being bad, I would say it is incomprehensible. It hit me when he says in the book: I was reciting a performance at school. I was nervous, so the storyline didn't go well. When we were in the car, my father said that he has never felt that embarrassed, and he will not show up to another performance. He kept the promise.

The attitude of Knausgård's father was exactly that. He never was there, and I think it caused an emotional trauma to this writer. He admitted in some paragraphs of the book that it took him ten years to write a book of his father, because there are some questions that remain unanswered. I believe this book was a self-guide to answer those questions. Precisely, I think the death of alcoholism was not the issue here, but the fact that his father will no longer be physically around anymore. Maybe he had the faith to build a paternal relationship, and this is very sad.
On the other hand -- it is interesting to see how he embraces loneliness when he became an adult. There is another page that says -- I disliked living in my childhood residential neighbourhood of Norway. I gaze at this Swedish suburb with a lot of buildings with unknown people, and I feel fine.

Well, I never read something like this. I think the way he approaches solitude is unique and original. There are five more numbers. I don't know if I would read them all, but the first volume gave me the impression that he also wants to focus on his brother, Yngve. The last pages of the book show a similar sense of loneliness in his brotherly relationship when they attended Bergen University, but he was not as deep as with the father.

I am again in that period of time where one feels blue oneself -- a bit depressed.

Brother, already on to a different girl man; the teacher is old news. This other one does in fact like the beach she said, so it might work out super chill. Who knows though. — Zolenskify

Glad to know! Stop faffing around, and have a coffee with that girl! :up:

But I digress, right now I have to pick between going out with this one girl or a chance to catch a nice swell; so, I have my work cut out for me. — Zolenskify

If I were you, I would go surfing and catch a nice swell. Look mate, I am from Madrid and my city has no access to the sea, but I understand how it feels to have the sea near you when I go to Barcelona or A Coruña often. I know it is a special feeling. It seems that you feel chilled when you are in the waves; then, you have to ask yourself if you would feel the same way getting your teacher to drink a coffee with you. It might be everything in your head; you have to be strong, man. I know it is difficult, but I think you are knocking on the wrong door. Why don't you try going out with a girl who also loves surfing like you?

I didn't see it because I hadn't signed in. Not everybody does. So, they will not know about the Literary Activity. — Amity

Well, they couldn't have known about The Shoutbox either because it is also not visible unless you sign in. I think it is a correct and understandable idea. There are weird people flowing around the Internet, and it is better to hide the relevant categories from search engines, as Jamal explained. :up:

"Where is my apple?". She said, "I ate it". We were happily married for 33 years. — jgill

I thought -- 'Mate, I don't recall reading that passage of Adam and Eve in the Bible'. :razz:

We have to never disregard the power of an apple. That's why I had one painted by Dali as a profile pic.

Is what it sounds like, nothing to nsfw, but maybe just some coffee? — Zolenskify

You and I know what will happen after that coffee. :smirk:

By the way, why do you want to get with your teacher? It seems that you feel attracted to her a priori.
 

Interesting. Thanks for sharing the note. :up:

First of all, it is quite complex to approach paradoxes. When I tried to comment something on this topic, some users rejected my view because they considered that it wasn't a paradox at all. So, the concept of paradox is blurry to me.

On the other hand, if I am not mistaken, the paradox of your notes is that whereas the figure collapses uniformly, the surface areas of the 3D figures are limitless.
I might haven't understood something because my knowledge of math is very limited—not like the 3D surface areas :grin: —but it is always comforting to try to read papers like yours.

But trying to teach both subjects simultaneously was counter productive. — jgill

I understand, yet I was referring to a special group of students. I meant the ones who are around 17 or 18 years old, and they are nearly finishing high school to enrol in university. Some of the are good—or even brilliant—on maths, literature, philosophy, physics, etc. According to their skills, they would choose one degree or another. But, no matter the degree, I think spelling is very important. At least, writing with proper grammar is a proof of non-illiteracy, in my honest opinion.

And I am not sure the ability to write lengthy pieces with delightful descriptive flourishes is an admirable trait where succinct, to the point passages would suffice - in fact, be more readable. — jgill

Yeah, brief texts could be better and more comprehensible than long ones. Nonetheless, if we want to teach young people critical reading, large texts are also important. Furthermore, I think it is essential to teach them to not read only the surface of every topic. For example, I am not an expert on mathematics, but some paradoxes are interesting, and I want to expand my knowledge of that. Wikipedia would help me; that's true, but I bet there are clear papers around the Internet that could be more complete.

Really!? I didn't know that.

I wish I was aware about the Tulips origin back in my college life. I guess I could have had more chances with the Turkish girls in my class. I gave candies as a Christmas gift to one of them.—and she liked the detail, actually—
Imagine if the present would have been a nice box of tulips!

Cute. :heart: :flower: @Benkei @Tzeentch @Tobias

How is it in Spanish? — Jafar

I think it is pretty good, actually. The books I have are edited and translated directly from Greek. There are some notes by the responsible of the edition. They are nice to study. At least, these were that my teacher of philosophy recommended me in school, and I never found a better edition in Spanish.

I read the Republic in German — Jafar

Wow, if you are able to read complex books in German, then you sure could read original texts of Nietzsche or Kant!

I wish! I have to make do with English — Jafar

I wish it too! I read Greek authors in Spanish. My school taught Greek, but I decided to study geography instead. One of my biggest mistakes in my teenage era.

Lemme know what you think when you're done please! — fdrake

Righto, mate! :smile:

It's very fun to read it aloud. — Jafar

You mean reciting it loudly in Greek? :smile:

I believe there are also plenty more nations who are witnessing the same thing, and more to follow. — Christoffer

Yes, here too.

There are no long sentences and paragraphs in the same way as previous generations used in writing. — Christoffer

True. When I read your argument, I thought about encyclopedias. Although it is true that Wikipedia—and the Internet altogether—is a great invention to have access to information, I think they limited the people to go deeper into every topic. For example, I want to know some details about Sweden. If I searched on Wikipedia, I would discover basic info such as the capital city, GDP, extension, etc. But if I decide to take a book of Scandinavian studies, my knowledge about Sweden will be deeper, better, and higher in quality. Sadly, it seems that people only want to focus on the surface.

They don't write letters, they don't write posts like this, no actual arguments or stories; they write in short forms that themselves consist of even shorter elements, previously emojis, but now also acronyms and made-up words conveying specific meanings spread as word-based memes (not just visual ones). — Christoffer

Believe it or not, I still write letters often. It helps me to keep up with grammar and creative writing in my own language. I don't have anyone to send those. I remember that I wanted to send a letter to Alkis Piskas—a TPF member. It was fun. But I see a lot of difficulties in actually getting my letter to be sent to Greece. It is not impossible, though. On the other hand, I think emojis are a good internet tool. I like to use them—you can perceive that I use them a lot on TPF.

What exactly is going on here? — Christoffer

It comes a lot of things to mind, but I personally believe that reducing the effort in education drove us to the current scenario. Some believe that studying a lot of hours is bad for children. Others think otherwise. I think that grammar and complex readings are crucial for a child when he is learning. Instead of continuing watching anime or cartoons all the time, they should read texts and do poetry. But for real. Not just to pass exams. If I were a professor, I would evaluate more the grammar than the content itself. Maybe a student is great in math, but if his grammar is terrible, I think he should not be able to promote. Simple.

Furthermore, let's be honest. People always valued science over language. It is a terrible mistake, in my opinion.

What in culture and education fails to form these abilities? — Christoffer

We—the millennial generation—are guilty, not just education and culture. I would like to know if you were thinking about a private or public educational system, or if this is not relevant at all.

It is true that Knausgård wants to get into the deepest point of sadness and loneliness, but it is something I am looking for right now. Authors who are older than me, and they express with a great narrative the sense of loss and melancholy.
It is a 500-page book, and I guess I will be able to finish it -- on the other hand, it reminds me of Fosse and the Norwegian type of narrative. I think it took him 10 years to finish this first novel. Wow...

With Israel on the cusp of regional war, in my opinion it is almost unthinkable that an American president is elected who is critical of Israel in any meaningful way. — Tzeentch

I agree. Yet I was wondering whether it is important to them for foreign policy affairs or not. Jewish lobbies are important on a national level, but I asked if someone also cared about what happens far beyond their frontiers. I used the example of Palestine because it seems that this is part of the 'woke culture' and Democrats might not feel comfortable talking that much about this problem. It is more clearer in Europe, apart from those who are blind to the situation.

The same happens regarding their relationship towards the European Union—or just Europe, I know you are not very fond of this institution—and the UK. Because these are the Western world as we know it, and I guess American voters also vote driven by how the USA would behave in that context or political arena.

Mates are quoting, replying, and mentioning me in the threads, but it doesn't pop up in my notifications.

Does this happen to someone else too?

:cry:

6. The right to bear arms. — Bob Ross

It is still very complicated to me to see bear arms as a constitutional right, or even more, a core value of a nation. Whenever some of you strongly defend the right of having access to weapons, I would like to answer. You want to have a weapon in your home to defend yourself from whom? -- Also, is there a correlation between carrying guns and safety? I think not. -- On the other hand, don't you trust your own neighbours or officemates? If you think that you live in a safe county, I can't see why you should have a gun in your house. 

It seems like if we decide to ban you from bearing guns, you would feel 'oppresed' by the state, and your freedom will not be fulfilled.

Liberals are moving away from these core values in the name of social justice. — Bob Ross

Interesting. Why don't you view social justice as a core value too?

I think a healthcare system that is actually governed by the free-market would be best; and the right to bear arms is more important: what does good health care do if you can’t protect your rights? — Bob Ross

Holy sh*t. You left me speechless. It is true that my country is poorer, but honestly, here reigns more common sense than there. I guess it is the luck of being born in Europe.

I'm not sure what you mean by "core value." — Hanover

Me either, Hanover. That's why I asked @Bob Ross. But you miss an important feature. He said 'American core values'. Are there Belgian core values? Swedish core values? Etc.

America is a capitalist country, which makes it less Marxist than other countries, which I guess is just true. — Hanover

The European Union is also capitalist, but whenever Social Democrats rule the Commission, they are labelled as 'Marxist' by some Americans. They aren't. That's what I tried to explain.

. I don't know how much time Americans spend thinking and commenting upon the working model of Spain, but, to the extent it is more communistic than the US, that would likely not be something many Americans would want to emulate. — Hanover

It is not communist. They work using a cooperation method, instead of the average pyramidal hierarchy system. They are doing it well, but maybe it only works in small towns in Basque Country.

The US does have strong national healthcare. Your concern is over affordability and accessibility. — Hanover

Yeah.

The M-16? Sure, we all walk around with fully automatic rifles. — Hanover

I wish that was only ironical... but you know there are a large number of citizens who carry guns with them, and that's crazy when it is seen by the rest of us.

Isnt there a split of values in your country, — Joshs

My country never had core values, Joshs. We are even more chaotic and incomprehensible than the USA.

We never really experienced the First Industrial Revolution and Second Industrial Revolution to have a view on rural and urban areas. When London was the core of industrial civilisation, Spain was still rural altogether, and we continued in this context until the 1980s.

I think America woke up and realized that this is getting out-of-hand; and wants to go back to America’s core values. — Bob Ross

You mean the continent altogether? :razz:

Jokes aside...

For a foreigner like me, it is complicated to understand America's core values. Following your views and posts, it seems that an American core value is gun freedom; also, you are against censorship, but you would avoid having a LGTBIQ flag in your classroom; then, you claim that it is essential to have different beliefs, but some of you label as 'Communist' the working model of Mondragón (Spain) for not being capitalist enough. 

A core value... complicated, mate.

For me, it is to have a strong national healthcare system. So, to you is carrying a M-16 in your big polluting Ford truck.

A Death in the Family. My Struggle 1. by Karl Ove Knausgård.

After Ove's father drank to death, this Norwegian author decided to write a set of novels called 'My Struggle'.

The collection is formed by six novels, but you can start with the one you want. They are not necessarily sorted.
Mostly, the first novel focuses on childhood, the acceptance of the death of his father, family problems, etc.

A great author that I discovered thanks to Jon Fosse.

The Democrats put very little money in conservative states except sometimes for specific federal candidates. Most money is spent for "swing states", e.g. Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Georgia, Arizona, Michigan. — T Clark

Exactly what it was in my mind. Industrialised states with white working-class families. It surprises me that Georgia or Arizona are plausible states to flip them into blue. Good luck. You—and Europe, of course— deserve politicians who govern and build up, not ones who destroy and divide people.

All and all, I think globalization has been bad for American workers — T Clark

Really? In what sense?

That's a good point. I didn't mention it because I'm not sure any foreign policy position would have much impact on an election here. — T Clark

I thought the same. Yet I considered that maybe those points would be also relevant to the American voter. Since I now understand that they might not be considered, I can't name more proposals or points to convince people to vote for Democrats. What if the donkey (I love the party logo) gives up on 'Indiana' or 'Oklahoma' and they put all the efforts in an industrialised working class like the one of Wisconsin and Pennsylvania?

Interesting proposals and points, but all of them are mainly focused on national issues and how to convince American working-class families.

I wonder if foreign policy is relevant to those eventual voters and motivates them to vote for one or the other.

There are a lot of examples of that, but it comes to mind three:

1) Palestine's sovereignty. I guess Democrats are pro-Palestine, but I don't know if it is an important matter amongst the voters

2) European Union. Democrats see us as friends or pals, at least. Republicans are clearly against us, and they flirt with Russia. Maybe it could motivate the voters that their leader prefers European values—we are not perfect. I know. I know.—rather than Putin's old-school hating style of everything and everyone.

3) UK. Republicans seem to flirt with Brexit and isolating them even more. This is a terrible idea, and the Western world should be united, not chopped into chunks. A person who believes in a united world should vote Democrat.

But all of the above is from a foreign policy perspective, and I don't know to what extent this is relevant for the average American voter.

Edit: javi2541997 - I see you have deleted your post. Why? — Amity

Yes, sorry, Amity. After reading my post again, I realised that it wasn't well elaborated. I saw that you didn't reply to my post yet, so I thought I was in time to delate what I wrote before you could read it. 

But I see I was wrong because you quoted a paragraph of that post in time.

I tend to be wary about what I write. Maybe too much, and maybe it wasn't a big deal.  :sweat:

.

I agree. However, what makes me furious is that future generations would have to 'adapt' to adverse conditions such as scarcity or weather. This is clearly—in my opinion and view—a consequence of climate change and the guilt of our representatives for not taking the correct decisions on time. Yet others—climate change deniers—believe some shite that this is just the fate of our humanity and we are overreacting.

grow enough food to feed the population — Punshhh

We started to experience this issue regarding water. When summer comes, there are vast municipalities in Spain where it is impossible to drink potable water! The pits and lagoons are already drought!

Well, I don't know why I am speaking in the future because we already have zones that became a bloody desert.

Have heard of the mythical Mondrogon corporation. Americans would do well to learn about work cooperatives in school if wasn't always considered anti-American socialist propaganda. — Nils Loc

Ah, you mean the way the Basque work in Arrasate. Yes, it is excellent, actually. There are other parts of Spain where they work similarly. I mean, without the hierarchical pyramid of power and responsibility. The workers are the same grade, and they solve the problems themselves. If I am not mistaken, Galician dockers do the same. 

Wonder if Amazon (corporation) workers in anywhere in the world could get away with this, or is the labor monitoring so fine-tuned that it makes the potential for 'Spanish practices' pretty much impossible. — Nils Loc

I would not be 100% sure. Maybe there is a subsidiary in Seville that leaves the cargo stranded, claiming Eastern and Christmas additional payments. Or maybe this happens at Liverpool docks—who can know where the next 'Spanish practices' will be done?

Anyway, don't forget to not clock in and out at the same time so no one knows what actual hours are worked. That's outrageous; perfidious, treacherous, sneaky, and two-faced. :naughty:

Am sure there are very interesting examples of it written down somewhere. — Nils Loc

Sí. :smile:

In the Royal Mail’s case, there are apparently 92 ‘Spanish practices’, which are said to include workers claiming overtime if mail volumes reach a certain level, or clocking in and out at the same time so no-one knows what actual hours are worked,—this is indeed my favourite :lol:—and additional payments being claimed for Easter and Christmas, even if no overtime is actually worked.

https://www.personneltoday.com/hr/have-a-rant-spanish-practices-is-an-outdate-phrase/

The term became infamous in the 1980s as a result of battles between the print unions and management in the newspaper industry in Fleet Street. The Spanish practices included deliberate overmanning; union control over who was hired; demands for cash payments to remake a page as deadlines approached; machine-room employees who claimed wages for workers who didn’t exist; and men who might be absent for whole days while moonlighting at other jobs but who would be covered by unspoken agreements not to notice.

https://www.worldwidewords.org/topicalwords/tw-spa2.htm


All of that only happened in the UK. It seems to be a British thing, but with quixotic and Spanish tones. 

It is interesting that you interpret the slang 'Spanish Practices' as when we point out lazy people or laid-back culture. This is what I expected when I read the headline.
But, surprisingly, there is another interpretation around on behalf of trade unions or workers. Doing unauthorised working methods with the aim of being listened by the bosses and changing the labour conditions. Hence the example of Royal Mail workers.

We don't take naps on the company's time! That's why the shops are closed from 3 p.m. until 5 p.m.