China is lacking democratic (transparency/rights/freedom) standards. There's a case to be made. — jorndoe

We have ended up in a world where it's difficult to look to one country as a role model for human rights, transparency, and corruption prevention. Yes, China is not a country that can demonstrate its ability to govern over people, but the alternative is equally bad: the United States is not a true democracy.
For years, the American government imprisoned innocent people in Guantanamo Bay, and police departments clearly have unfavourable attitudes towards African and Hispanic people.

It seems like we are forced to allow American products because, how can we dare to try to ban you?

Take a look at this 1995 campaign in Finland against McDonald's garbage goods. Perhaps @ssu recalls that :razz: . Despite the opposite of the people, McDonald's is still accessible in Helsinki and the surrounding areas because if the Finnish government attempted to ban an American product, they would have immediately found themselves added to the list of communist and unfriendly nations, right? 1995 Finland

Yes, poor labour conditions and pollution are basically nonexistent in the Western world. These issues only exist in China... :roll:

Most of the clothes were made in Bangladesh, Pakistan, India, China, Philippines, even some made here in Honduras. — Sir2u

I forgot to mention it, but thank you mate for bringing it to the table. Basically, the majority of the clothing comes from East Asia!

I understand. The eternal rivalry between the two superpowers of the world. When you live in a normal/non-important country like mine, it is important to be friends with both countries. American products such as Microsoft, Ford, Apple, Google, etc. are very important, but I think Chinese products deserve some respect as well. My previous phone was a hauwei, and it was probably the best cell phone I ever had. I can't remember about another whose battery lasted so long.
 
But, my perspective comes from a place that depends on both of you a lot. We only produce jamón serrano and tourism. We can't get rid of China as a partner because it will have a negative impact on our economy (as well as the United States).
 
So, yeah, I will still purchase Chinese products.

Would you buy a Chinese made car ? — Fooloso4

Yes, I would buy a Chinese car and other products such as mobile phones or other devices. What is the big issue regarding Chinese products? I just don't understand the obsession with the Western world of banning them. It is true that their products were of poor quality some decades ago, but they are well manufactured now.

Have you ever read a Spanish book and also the English translation? — T Clark

Yes, Gloria Fuertes' poems. She is my favourite poet. She mainly wrote children's poetry, but some poems were more deep and 'for adults'. I also read some of Fuertes' works in English because it was a big surprise for me that she was an important subject of study for American hispanists and other experts in Spanish literature.

Like the poet of my childhood being studied by experts in Hardvard or Yale! Wow!

If so, what was the experience like? Did the translation get the original right? — T Clark

The experience was actually pretty good. The translators made a good effort to understand madrileño vocabulary. The Spanish poets under the Franco regime—Generation of '50—were awesome but sadly underrated!

Generation of '50

Well, I guess I can only answer you properly if I approach the topic of translation on different scales: reading in my native language is always better because everything flows in the perfect rhythm. 

But, reading literature directly written in English—like James Joyce, John Cheever, Dickens, Shaw, etc.—is a great and fruitful experience. It is hard for me to keep a good 'flow' along the book, but it is not a great handicap. It is obvious that it is better to read Joyce directly in English than in Spanish, because the translators usually 'disrupt' the real sense.

There is a big controversy regarding the accurate translation of One Thousand and One Nights, for example.

Cello has an indescribable tone. That short but intense piece proves it. Thanks for sharing it with us. I enjoyed listening to it while on my way to the subway.

Welcome to TPF.

Red Cavalry by Isaac Babel.

@Baden

Éamon de Valera’s long but fruitless search for his mysterious Spanish father.

I wish we could help to locate some evidence. It is wonderful how our countries collaborated in such a lovely case. :heart:

Great book. I had some difficulty with it in the beginning: — Jamal

I had some difficulties reading Borges as well. It is remarkable his vast knowledge on almost everything. However, I feel he expressed himself in a manner that can only be fully comprehended by him. The eternal handicap of gifted! 

And then of course there are the things that are subjective, which you cannot find an objective answer. Like what is beautiful, what is morally right or wrong etc. — ssu

Good point, ssu.

Honestly, when I have exchanges on aesthetics here in TPF, I don't really expect an answer with facts but to read different perspectives on the same topic. Poetry is probably one of the main subjective-notion-like topics. I did an experiment a few weeks ago with my thread about Kundera and how this author used the adjective 'unbearable', attaching it to other words. I precisely referred to nostalgia. So, how do we understand nostalgia when it is unbearable? It is impossible to articulate and explain 'unbearable' and 'nostalgia' using facts, yet that is how I feel after reading poems.

It is better to trust more our emotions than reason sometimes. :smile:

Have you considered writing a kenning poem? — Amity

I tend to write poetry every day, but my poems are short and ambiguous, very similar to haiku. I'm even still writing haiku. I try to express melancholy, nostalgia, and memories through poetry because I am very sensitive regarding the past and 'old days'. It is the only way I can express how I feel. I think it would be impossible for me to describe how a sunset* feels otherwise. I only write in Spanish, but I dream that I will be able to write in English in the future. It is hard to switch emotions into another language. 

By the way, now that we are talking about sunsets, kennings and nostalgia, I have been reading beautiful poems by Harry Martinson. A wonderful Swedish poet! I wish I could understand him in his native language, but I fully appreciate the big job by translators. :smile:

Hola, Javi, y muchas gracias — Amity

Hola. :smile:

Yes, it's difficult to follow. However, I discovered that kennings are not only found in Old Nordic poetry.
Excellent information from: — Amity

Thanks, Amity. I really enjoy reading stuff like this. I wonder now if' stuff' is a bad word to express or refer to something. I am realising that I am using stuff' a lot while I interact with you, mates. I understand that it is not too important to express myself in a perfect manner, yet I guess that maybe I sound 'repetitive' in most of my posts and answers.

It is indeed fascinating. How do I say 'book-worm' in Spanish? :wink: — Amity

We don't refer to worms but to mice to refer to that noun. We say: ratón de biblioteca. :smile:

Has anything poetic inspired you recently to think and reflect on today's everyday? — Amity

Yes. I am currently reading Borges, and he dedicated a chapter for reviewing 'kennings'. A 'kenning' is an old poem that is characterised for including a large number of metaphors and ambiguity. Sadly, I am not very informed or acknowledged on Icelandic and Old Nordic poetry, so it is a bit difficult for me to follow some details and descriptions.
Anyway, thanks to the vast and wonderful work of translating by Borges, I started to read and flowing my imagination around. I'd like to feel free and open to interpretation while reading kennings.

If you don't mind, Amity, I'd like to share a kenning I read before:

The fishing goes according to our [my] wishes, in that we have tried to lure the poison-serpent of the sea out of the heather of the field of the cod. The caster of the bait-gallows let the one grasped by the hook hang; at all events, things have turned out well for me in catching the trout.

Reflecting on the ambiguity of the brief poem above, most experts on Scandinavian literature and poetry agreed that 'the heather of the field of the cod' means seaweed. Fascinating, isn't it? This kind of poetry is helping me to improve my imagination. :smile:

Further readings: Skaldic Poetry.

Fictions by Jorge Luis Borges.

I am enjoying Borges' works. I don't understand why it took me too long to start reading him. Maybe he just popped up in my life at the perfect time. Glad that my parents have books of him on their shelves.

Wait... Am I the only one who thinks this topic is sneakily becoming The Shoutbox 2.0?

I once was aggressively called "Guiri" by a drunken Spanishman. Ironically, he was the one who was being uncouth; I was a perfect gentleman. — Jamal

I obviously trust that you were behaving genuinely, Jamal.

When we are drunk, we tend to be dangerous and disruptive... the consequences of having such a big percentage of 'enthusiasm' in our DNA. Like Italians and Balkans folks.

:up:

Mahler! I couldn't have thought of a better option to welcome September!

Australian charming music. @Tom Storm @Banno @Wayfarer

Let's dance while we take a break from doing philosophy on 'certainty' and 'sense and sensibilia.'

thrifty Northern Europeans — BC

Are you sure it isn't Russians and Bulgarians who are the guiri? — BC

I make Mancunians responsible for the tomatina party, especially @Sir2u.
Are there Russians in the ceremony as well? Probably. You know they are all over the world spying folks!

One could use the pineapple emoji to efficiently welcome new members, for instance (pineapples were once a symbol of welcoming, so I have heard). Banana and banana peel emoji's would have several uses. Sour grapes, kiwis, nuts, cherries, peaches, apricots, eggplant, raspberries (the Bronx cheer) rotten tomatoes, etc. — BC

If I had to choose a fruit representing philosophy, I would go for a coconut. Why? Because although it is tough and rough in the bark, it has a juicy and delicious liquid when you get deep into it.

did you participate in the big Spanish tomato fight? — BC

No, mate. I don't participate in guiri things.

To clarify: if you don't join the Discord server you won't be left behind; the forum will always be at thephilosophyforum.com, — Jamal

:up:

But I guess only a few or even nobody is in that forum. The main point is to not leave behind our relationship and keep our data to the extent we could. I don't see the point of joining a random philosophy forum with moderators who are unknown to us, and we will not know how they would welcome us.

Although Discord is not the epitome of social media, it has fruit emojis (special attention to the banana emoji). Something that Plush Forums lacks of... 

Oh! What a minute. I am basically the only one who uses emojis. :snicker:

Spain, right? — jorndoe

Sí.

In a socialist world, there might have been more money invested in more cost effective ways rather than as a means to generate vast profits for shareholders etc. — Punshhh

I live in a socialist country, and the government is not investing in the most cost effective ways. It collects a lot of taxes, but a big percentage goes to reduce the big external debt with the European Union. When we were in the coronavirus pandemic, it was a total chaos by the public administration to provide sanitary products (such as masks or COVID tests, for instance). The central government had to sign agreements with pharmaceutical enterprises to reinforce the supply.

I personally don't get upset if a company and its shareholders get rich because sanitary products are providing them benefits. The same happens with Nordesk and Saxenda (Orzanpic) products. They put assets in a long-term project, and now they are experiencing good dividends.

What if that someone claims to be frank instead? :scream:

The active-shoutbox-user is a paid job, so Discord is definitely a good choice in my most humble opinion. :smile:

I joined the Discord server. I used to use Discord four years ago with a different user name when I was very addicted to anime. It is a cool place but more dynamic than a forum. 

In the event that this website closes, it's crucial to find another place.I would be devastated if this ever happens. However, a solution needs to be found. If this goes away, we cannot allow ourselves to be separated and lose contact with one another. :broken:

After reading three novels by Kundera, I am starting to think that 'unbearable' is a concept of his own. We have the meaning of the adjective on one side, and then we have the meaning of Kundera on the other. It is important to notice that he also used or attached 'unbearable' to other things, such as love, sex, or art. 

Coming back to the main point of this thread and speaking about poetry, I think Kundera attached unbearable to nostalgia because the main character, Agnes, is sad and unhappy in her mature life. She lives in a constant state of heavy existentialism and uncertainty. Yet he had an acceptable childhood, and when she reads Goethe's poem years later, her last years showed up like a sparkle. She is learning German, she is spending time with her parents, who are now gone, when she moved to France, etc. 

She feels like: 'Where the time went?' Because she dislikes the present and she doesn't hope for the future. I guess that's why the nostalgia is too unbearable for Agnes.

Immortality by Milan Kundera. — javi2541997

Excellent. Thanks to Kundera's novel, I started to see love and time in a different manner. Not in the same pessimistic way as I used to do back in the past.

Currently reading: A History of Eternity by Jorge Luis Borges.

Smooth chill tune. I wish I had listened to it this morning when it was raining under the grey and foggy sky.

It is dyed cloth, using cold water dyes (procion) under melting ice. — Nils Loc

That rocks! :cool:

I assume that those were painted by you. They are very beautiful! Good job. I have three similar paintings in the hall of my parent's house. I like this Indian or Middle Asian art expression. 

I see you kept the blue colour in both, but interacting with other colours. Is blue your favourite colour then?

I've re-read this, especially the part I underlined. It seems that the problem might lie in the category heading 'Philosophy of Art'. This seems to require the inclusion of a philosophical argument. — Amity

We can share, enjoy, and read poems together. But again, my aim was not to discuss the content of Kundera's views. I am currently reading a novel by him, and I am very hyped. The main character, Agnes, is melancholic, so am I. After reading the chapter where she reads Goethe's poetry, I felt like it was interesting to share it here. The thread even went unnoticed for two days. It is obvious that it is not philosophical enough. I only invited the users to share similar poems in the thread.

I really appreciate how you value my thread, Amity. But you—and I—need to understand that the forum has standards and all.

Tank Man, our unknown protester hero.

1989* Tiananmen Square protests.

* 35th anniversary.

I'm returning to this with an apology to javi2541997 if I've made this too personal and critical. I've enjoyed very much participating in his thoughtful and engaging thread. Thank you — Amity

No worries, Amity. Please, don't think I got upset with you because I didn't. I appreciate the value that you gave to my thread. I love literature and I enjoy sharing comments and feedback here. But it is true that my thread is not philosophical enough. My aim is not even debate with others but trying to read more poems that can make me feel that 'unbearable nostalgia' that Kundera referred to in his novel.
Poetry may have a bit of philosophical content per se, but I mainly focused on nostalgic poems. These have a lot of art but not philosophical content. If I feel nostalgia reading a poem it is just a personal emotion of mine that escapes from rational thinking...

The thread is doing the work I was expecting, so everything is fine. :smile:

If Javi had made a brief argument as to how and why this is an important part of the appreciation of literature, that would have been enough to make it belong unambiguously on the main page, in my opinion. — Jamal

I agree. My intention was not to debate but to share poems where we could feel that 'unbearable nostalgia' that Kundera talked about in his novel. For this reason, I thought The Lounge was the correct place for the thread because I am honest and I admit that I didn't put in a high philosophical effort.

Some brief but good poems by Gloria Fuertes:

I’m alone… and I don’t know why
I would like to know, but I won’t tell…
I’m alone and I don’t know why,
I would like to kiss, and I don’t know who.
I’m in love… and I don’t know what.
I would like to know… and it can’t be.
I’m sad and lonely… and I don’t know why.

I was
born to be a poet or to be dead, I chose
the difficult
—I survive all the shipwrecks—,
and I continue with my verses,
alive and kicking.
I was born to be a whore or a clown,
I chose the difficult
part —to make evicted customers laugh—,
and I continue with my tricks,
pulling a dove out of my petticoat.
I was born for nothing or a soldier,
and I chose the difficult—
not to be hardly anything on the stage—
and I continue between rifles and pistols
without getting my hands dirty.