Aren't odd numbers a part of natural numbers? Is it not true that the cardinality of the former equals that of the latter? — Agent Smith
So I take it that restricting 'object' to refer only to abstractions is not acceptable to you. Thus, indeed you do not agree that abstractions are objects. Thus, indeed you contradict yourself when you also said: — TonesInDeepFreeze
Why do you conclude that? — Metaphysician Undercover
The basic set theoretic structure of the reals underlies almost everything I have done, but I haven't used infinity as a "point" — jgill
Classical means the tools of analysis like limits, differentiation and integration and all those entail. Nitty gritty. Actual specific results vs broad generalities. — jgill
Extra brownie points. — Kuro
I'm not sure how your post relates to my quote. — jgill
It's just that conversations involving cardinalities beyond ℵ1 don't usually occur in classical or even much of modern analysis. — jgill
a part is equal to the whole
— Agent Smith
No, set theory does not say that there is a proper subset of a set such that the proper subset is the set. Set theory does say that there are sets such that there is a 1-1 correspondence between a proper subset of the set and the set. — TonesInDeepFreeze
"part is equal to whole" at face-value, just is a mereological truism — Kuro
Is infinity a contradiction? It does lead to some rather odd conclusions: a part is equal to the whole and all that. No wonder many mathematicians (recall Kronecker's vitriol against Cantor) were dead against it. — Agent Smith
No, set theory does not say that there is a proper subset of a set such that the proper subset is the set. Set theory does say that there are sets such that there is a 1-1 correspondence between a proper subset of the set and the set. — TonesInDeepFreeze
Part and whole have nothing to do with set and subset — Kuro
does not excuse your hostility — Kuro
So AgentSmith was correct, and your "correction" of him is a result of conflation of mereology with set theory on your part — Kuro
Is infinity a contradiction? It does lead to some rather odd conclusions: a part is equal to the whole and all that. No wonder many mathematicians (recall Kronecker's vitriol against Cantor) were dead against it. — Agent Smith
this is a philosophy forum, not a math forum. — Metaphysician Undercover
"I cannot agree to abstractions as objects, without specific restrictions", does not contradict with "I can readily conceive of abstract objects". — Metaphysician Undercover
I cannot agree that abstractions are objects, unless we restrict "object" to refer only to abstractions. But then we could not use "object" to refer to anything else, or we'd have equivocation. And we would have to create a special form of the law of identity, such that when 'the same' abstraction exists in the minds of different people, we can still refer to it as "the same" abstraction, despite accidental differences between one person and another, due to different interpretations. The current law of identity requires that accidental differences would constitute distinct 'objects' which are therefore not the same, so we'd need a different law of identity. — Metaphysician Undercover
I readily conceive of abstract objects — Metaphysician Undercover
maybe we need someone else, an arbiter — Agent Smith
you're too technical for my taste. — Agent Smith
you would never try to provide an infinite list of points to completely describe a line (Cantor) — keystone
I have nothing more to contribute. — Agent Smith
logicism, the ideology that there is a single correct logical definition of a mathematical object — sime
infinite object, something beyond our comprehension — keystone
I'll leave you to discuss with the other experts. Good day. — Agent Smith
Cantor lost his mind (theia mania) and spent his later years in a lunatic asylum for instance. These concepts & paradoxes of which there are many seem to have a deletorious effect on the brain/mind - constantly mulling over them may lead to a nervous breakdown. — Agent Smith
∞ isn't and object — Agent Smith
it is challenging for me to envision the existence of a set of all natural numbers. Without assuming its existence, accepted set theory doesn't get far off the ground. — keystone
I think I have a grasp of how real numbers play into accepted set theory — keystone
A bit of magic is needed to make the leap from a finite collection of points forming nothing to an infinite collection of points forming a continuum. — keystone
Why can't we just say that pi is not a number? Instead, it is an algorithm — keystone
I've heard people say that the paradoxes entwined with actual infinities are beautifully mysterious...I just think they demonstrate the flaws of the concept of actual infinity. — keystone
I find it hard to imagine that something (an n-dimensional continuum) can be constructed from nothing (0-dimensional points). — keystone
I do feel that there is a little bit of Cantor's nonsense implied in any view that supports actual infinities. — keystone
The OP mentions Aristotle's distinction of actual vs. potential infinities. The Wikipedia page on the subject doesn't explain the difference between the two all that well. — Agent Smith
I have never used infinity as anything more than unboundedness. — jgill
the domain of the metalanguage — Banno
Relations don't exist. — Banno
this thread is not intended to be so formal but to get on with outlining what is going on. — Banno
rain on the parade — Banno
Some simplified detail might be fun. — Banno
proof of consistency — Banno
inconsistent language - or theory, if you prefer — Banno
[with an inconsistent theory] every theorem can be deduced; on in which everything is true. — Banno
if a contradiction is true in our system, then anything is derivable. — Banno
a language strong enough to talk about its own sentences, because directly it will be able to generate a sentence of the form
This sentence is false — Banno
∃(x)Fx≡ Fm v Fn v Fo... and (x)Fx≡Fm&Fn&Fo...? — Banno
