doubt the amoeba has much awareness of its own psychological reality..... — Pantagruel

The psychological reality is the awareness.

after each selection that ball was replaced with one the same, — Tim3003

You mean replacing balls every time? There are few perfectly symmetric objects to throw. The throwing is mostly random, but the falling on a side depends on the shape. I think if I pick a coin from a heap, the side with which I throw it up is random. Unless all coins in the heap face up. If I make the same movements every time, I will throw it with the same side up every time. Then also my hand makes non-random motions, though I let the coin fly quite arbitrarily. So the coin shape is important. The motion of atoms in gas is random. This can be used in random number generation.

Random choices are impossible to make.

If there is no determined free will, there is nobody to hold accountable. So no, it doesn't make sense, for how can you be accountable for something that carries you along including the choice to (or not) surrender?

Why can't contradictions be meant?

Seems like all the verticals and horizontals shrink to zero leaving the points of a line. It's an iteration of triangles placed on the diagonal. Each time the number of triangles is twice as big while their is sqrt2 smaller. Leading eventually to the shape of the line. If we look through a super microscope, the length still 2 though. A long line?

A neutrino walks through a bar — PoeticUniverse

Says the bartender:
"Fancy a drink?"
Light-heartedly neutrino says:
"No thanks, I'm just passing trough!"

The fact that 100 randomicals have their randomic aspects in common, doesn't make them less random. Patterned randomity is still random.

Indeed. Only on a material form, a number can occupy space. It depends on the volume of the material used how much space is occupied. You can use bronze to form a one, or use the spin of an electron as 1 or 0. Small space. Anyhow, information, by the rule of essential necessity, needs space.

The all occupies space. Every subject and object, conform the principle of essential necessity, can be allotted its faithful, just, and righteous place in the Holy Kingdom of our Great Creator, oh bless His Name! Singulars, particulars, and regulars, all deserve their place in His Holy Magnificence.

So brothers and sisters, let's hold hands and prey! Let's say gratitude to our Shephard and Divine Examplar!

It depends how the poem is looked at, as all things. A vertical poem seems militant, aggressive, or coming at ya. It won't bow, it's strict and reaches for heaven. To be read in staccato.
A convex poem is modest, resilient, and inviting. Written with a lot of vowels, spoken with round lips.

You can imagine what the horizonal and ellipsoid poems hold in store for us.

Mondriaan

The evil daemon is in possession of all what will happen in the universe. The evil daemon tells me what I'm about to do in a minute. I act in deep contrast to his evil prophecy. I have a free will!

It are the charges running around massively parallel, and on a virtual infinity of possible paths, on paths of least resistance (by modulated connectivity of the synapse connections between dendrites) that cause consciousness. Not the force fields emanating from them. Basically, we are electrically (and colorly) charged massive bodies, with a face, arms, and legs. Running and dancing with our fellow men and women, and all other forms our planet (still) harbors.

Since the brain isn't capable of making itself the object of its own study like it can with other things like a table or a person, the ability of the mind to self-reflect is physically inexplicable. — Agent Smith

You could cut carefully take your brain out, keeping the neural connections and blood flow intact. Then sling your brain around by the bundle of nerves and stones. I don't think you get dizzy. A bit light in the head, maybe.
Then you can lay your brain to rest and play with the visual cortex on the back. That will alter your vision of the brain, and might even caùse damage, so be careful.
You can even yo-yo the brain by rolling vaines and nerves around it and roll it off.
The most interesting things happen when you squeeze it like a peach or poke around in it with a variety of needles and metal charged sticks.
There is a lot to stick your nose in. Colored sounds may abe heard, melodic colors be seen, hot itch be felt, pain be tasted, and sweetness be smelt, or viciousness taken for an act of mercy.

So be careful and leave the nerves and vaines connected. You might loose your head...

How can time have no beginning? There should be initial çonditions to arrive at the present. We already know that matter is not constantly created. Wouldn't an infinite past imply a dead present?

Are there two kinds of time maybe, one reversible and one irreversible? The irreversible exploding from the reversible?

We don't know the fundamental fields though. How can we read the Babylon Books properly? Cranking up energy? How can physicists be so blind that they don't see that there is more elemental stuff than quarks and leptons?

That clock ticking on the wall seems pretty real. And it had to start sometime. Time can last forever but it needs a start. Of course it can restart infinite times.

Why is it thought that intelligence is used to maximize, be it offspring, efficiency, survival, or whatever? Does the virus really acts to immortalize its genes? To maximize its lifespan? I doubt it. It's us who project.

They are determined not to follow and suffer the resistance anymore. The path they followed in life was one of maximum resistance, not least.

Every attempt to formulate randomness leads to a repetition of a previous sequence. Now this has to be the case in every random infinite sequence of numbers, but then the repetition starts somewhere, eeeh, randomly.

Every prime number can be written as 6n+1 or 6n-1. Where do these formulaticals exist in the MU? How does an integral exist? Near a summation? What about functions or complex numbers? Is there a big book in which the mathematician can look? Written in mathematical heaven? Are the spherical harmonics existing in the hydrogen atom? Or is it just a way nature can answer if we ask questions in the language of math? What about the infinity of Feynman diagrams, negative energy frequencies in quantum fields, or the operators, and their distributions in space? What about space itself? Is it pseudo Euclidean or a manifold? Who am I? If all is math then so are we. Is a thought about the long line and Hausdorff spaces, Julia sets, and Lebesque measures, are these thoughts mathematical stuff? It's a belief, like the thought of charged interactions can be a charged process itself, or the thought about God can be God itself.

Every prime number can be written as 6n+1 or 6n-1. Where do these formulaticals exist in the MU? How does an integral exist? Near a summation? What about functions or complex numbers? Is there a big book in which the mathematician can look? Written in mathematical heaven? Are the spherical harmonics existing in the hydrogen atom? Or is it just a way nature can answer if we ask questions in the language of math? What about the infinity of Feynman diagrams, negative energy frequencies in quantum fields, or the operators, and their distributions in space? What about space itself? Is it pseudo Euclidean or a manifold? Who am I? If all is math then so are we. Is a thought about the long line and Hausdorff spaces, Julia sets, and Lebesque measures, are these thoughts mathematical stuff? It's a belief, like the thought of charged interactions can be a charged process itself, or the thought about God can be God itself.

The road leading from the cradle to the abyss, the overdose, the gun, or the pills though must have been one of maximum resistance...

I haven't read all you wrote (tl dr?) but I have the feeling you associated consciousness with the EM field. Isn't electric charge a better canditate then for consciousness? All brain activity is constituted by neural currents. And who knows the true nature of charge? They produce EM fields. These fields are derived from charges and influence other charges. Is consciousness contained in the EM? Is is the EM field that has will or charge?

But that's not really fact though right? That's just one out of MANY interpretations of it.

Also if I understand "observer" is misunderstood to mean conscious observer which it does not. It can be anything measuring it even a sensor. — TerraHalcyon

A sensor is no observer. QM says an observer is a human with the knowledge of QM measuring an outcome in an experiment. This collapses the wavefunction. Basically there are two interpretations. With and without hidden variables. The one without has evolved in a variety of a lot that are basically the same but all stumble on collapse. The only one for which collapse actually happens independently from us is the HV interpretation. You can say that the WF collapses during a sensor interaction but you can always maintain that happens only on us observing. It's a silly interpretation but it's what QM says, hence the countless and fruitless attempts to correctly interpret.

No, that's usually not what it's called. But just imagine (and keep in mind it's no scientifically acclaimed and peer-reviewed forum): according to the standard way to interpret QM, as was decided by some hot shots in the field back then, a century or so ago (Einstein excluded), the only way a wavefunction collapses is because of "the observer". So if you don't look, everything and everyone is in superposition. If I don't look (observe) you and everything else exist, for me, in a superimposed state of many you's, and other you's. Regardless if yiu yourself observe or not. Which is solipsist. A solipsist denies other consciences, a superpositionist denies other wavecollapses when not looking.

True enlightenment is not the True light shining on a True reality while seeing it Truly reflected. Personally or collectively this may lead to salvation or liberation. In a broader context it may lead to slavery and tyranny, for who doesn't want their enlightenment to be a measure for all?

No, my dear brothers and sisters, true enlightenment lies in the realization that one can see reality in more than one light, and that the light reflected depends on the light used to enlighten. This realization truly sets free and truly saves. Not from ignorance and lie, but from the dark powers that are settled in the depths of human nature which can overtake us and send the world into a state of the great tyrants and their wicked ways.

So brothers and sisters, let's hold hands and pray! Let's show gra... Ah well, fuck that...

Superposition as used by strict followers of the Copenhagen view are a kind of solipsists too. This view is a direct, but irrefutable outcome of the rules of QM, and there is no proof it isn't right. He can always claim that the whole universe, including you, finds itself in a superimposed state. This only goes to show this is a weird view. The consequences of this view are debated and the only plausible way out are hidden variables. I suggest you use these against him.

These days everyone seems to be a panpsychist. — Tom Storm

Is that a bad thing? I think there are a whole lot more materialists. There is no difference between them. Except that materialists claim that consciousness is an illusion and panpsychists claim it's real, and material an illusion. Now who is right? I would say, both.

Somehow, this makes sense. A lot of mathematical forms have an isomorphic material counterpart.

Seems like modern society is never finished. We divide up history according to technological progress and scientific knowledge, and direct the future towards new inventions and increasing knowledge. Thereby retreating from nature more and more, while at the same time haven't been deeper, looked farther ahead and back in time, haven't seen as small or big as today, reached further than ever, never built as high before, constructed as much as now, discovered every inch of the Earth, mapped all stars in the sky, catalogued human DNA as well as other species, have almost reconstructed the sun down here, developed artificial intelligences operating on pentaHz clocks, records are broken as a matter of excercise, life lives in air-conditioned isolated spaces, infuse the young with efficiency and economic values, and have a craving need for growth and inflation, with the purpose to grow even further. Nature, I feel pity and compassion for you. I know you by heart, while most scientist claim an abstract and void knowledge. So be it...

Brothers and sisters, let's hold hands and pray! Let's jointly say thanks to our great Divine Creators. Let's worship in collective unity the Great Fathers of Eternal Glorified Potentiality. Say us the hail to the Just Powers of Desoxy, Ribo, Nucleid, and the Mighty Acid. Show them our unconditional faith, blind submission, and unquenchable longing, and bear us witness to the powers of their Creative Conduct, leading our humble bodies, in Their Fruitful Holy Helix, to be their diminutive followers and obedient followers. Let's adorn and embellish with words our Magnificent Makers and may they be allocated Blessing Eternal. All hail to the Quintessential Quartet, praise their names! ADENINE GUANINE! CYTOSINE! THYMINE! Now go forth all and procreate in their name.

I see what you're saying, but it's not like a hydrogen atom is figuring out the frequency it should oscillate at: it is constrained to aim toward a particular frequency by purely physical behaviour. That said, the best computer you could design for modelling the universe exactly would be... the universe. You could think of it that way. — Kenosha Kid

That's exactly what I say. It's us trying to figure out what history occurs by trying to calculate them all and assign them probabilities according to a principle. I don't think the universe computes all these different histories, assigns them complex probabilities, and ĺets these interfere. All these procedures are human inventions, not truly present in nature. That's only what we project. You could think of it that way, and that leads to the idea of a track being present.

In reality, almost all elementary processes are reversible. — Kenosha Kid

Well, in theory all processes are time reversible. Just reverse all motion present in the system... in practice this needs quite some effort, and the means you reverse all motion with go forward in time. You can mentally reverse all motion, but in practice this is not possible, and it's the reason time is irreversible. Processes could run in reverse though. If all motion would be magically reversed (evolution of the wavefunctions, collapses, expansion of space, spin), a time reversed universe is seen. Wavefunction evolution is not reversible in time though, and collapse would still occur, so even if the reversed process is possible, the reversed evolution of the wavefunction is not, as collapses are not reversed in superpositions. In practice, reversed processes can only occur if the momenta are reversed, and this can only be done in the bigger context of larger irrerversible processes, and an accidental reversal can also only occur in such a larger process, because else the whole had to reverse in its entirety, which obviously cannot happen.The funny thing is though that it are fundamental processes that are asymmetric in time. The weak force is involved here, as the weak force is left right asymmetric. Some particles (quark anti quarks) are CP asymmetric and thus T reversal shows a different partice, and time reversal can be identified. Somehow, space asymmetry necessitates a form of time asymmetry.

I'm not getting what you are saying makes will free. That it evolves? — Yohan

I'll give it a try. The academic approach to free will or wont is that their freedom is taken away by reference to a natural law, be it a statistical one, like QM, or a deterministic variant of it. In both cases the will seems to be "a victim" of determinism, be it a determined wave function with associated probabilistic collapse, or even a deeper deterministic substrate. It is claimed that the will is somehow the slave of deterministic or probabilistic processes, which denies the notion of a free will.

But how can an evolving process be "determined" by initial and boundary conditions or natural laws? Only if we litterally impose boundary or initial conditions, and project a natural law into it, it makes some sense to say the process is determined. But we can't impose these conditions into the inside of the process. Mentally we can project forces into the process and call these forces the determining entity. These forces though are caused by internal charges. These charges and forces are part of the process and the only thing really determining the process is the will inside it. There is a will even in two charged particles interacting, though I'm stepping her off the beaten track. The dynamics of charged particle fields is not determined by gauge fields but by the will particles have to interact. Physicists call this will charge. Because of this charge (its nature is not understood, not even by string theory, which shifts the problem of charge to vibrational modes of strings, which makes one wonder what causes this vibration) interaction occurs. The charge in a sense pushes the the particle fields, by means of gauge fields. Which is to say, we view it that way. We consider gauge fields the fields causing the dynamics of particle aggregates but can say just as well that the will, the mental, or however you call it, the cause of the dynamics. Two magnets pushing or pulling one another somehow seem to have a will.

Larger, more complicated processes, with complex structured charges moving, like charges running around on the neurons of our brain, involve more complex forms of will inside the body, like charge and colored charges in quarks and leptons or two even more fundamental particles. These charged contents constitute the will and consciousness and the freedom of this will can be constrained by other forms of will.

The will, or consciousness or charge, are not caused, nor do they cause. The will is an inherent property of nature, and so are charge and consciousness. The will can influence other processes. People have a will with eyes to see, ears to hear and mouths to scream. They have the great, and at the same time scary possibility to reign over the will of other people, the will to power. The will simply is, not determined but determined, not caused but causing.

So we are just charged bodies with faces, arms and legs to excercise our will, and an uncanny ability to direct our fellow beings in thought, action and story.

Great story...That's all it is, a bedtime lullaby... :cool:

When it says we're going to stone the girl, that doesn't mean she will get stoned just like when the policy says you have $10,000 in coverage, that doesn't mean that's all you have. — Hanover

Still, there is a considerable difference between 10 000 stones as written to be thrown while getting 25 000 and 10 000 dollar that is written while 25 000 is implied by local laws. Why writing 10 000 stones when one means 10 000 dollars? Were sticks and stones money in these ancient times? Should one be coined to death or should his wallet be cut in two? Why use the vivid imagery of cutting hands and throwing stones? Who says this didn't really happen and won't happen again if Christians seize power?

Another possibility is that final, as well as initial, boundary conditions of systems should be specified — Kenosha Kid

This is exactly what is done in the LAP. Two fixed positions in spacetime. It seems teleological in the sense that a particle seems to know the right path to choose. But it's us who vary the path, it's us who determine the track. It's not that the particle chooses it beforehand. more paths are in fact possible. With varying probabilities. The actual path in classical mechanics is one real history based on calculating the one with least action. For qft, all histories are actually existing, with various probabilities. But in both cases, for an actual situation, you calculate the histories a priori. Then afterwards you say the actual present history (yeah, right..., alas!), is determined by the principle, while it's actually determined by us.

Does determinism need a first cause? I think it does. At the BB singularity particles needed a first push to come in existence. Without such a first push, nothing could have come into existence.The initial pushes determined the subsequent development, which would result in life for a wide, maybe continuous and infinite set of initial conditions. Maybe these pushes were even determined by a previous big bang, where time has reached infinity (I tend to think that once the universe has accelerated away to infinity, this triggers a new big bang behind us). That's why, the initial conditions for a time reversed universe have to be infinitely precise, while these for the forward direction can be pretty carbitrary.

Determinism does not suggest a godlike overseer anymore: that's what science has done for us. — Kenosha Kid

Dunno. The overseer seems necessary for the actual existence of the universe. If he oversees or determines initial conditions, or even intervenes is an open question, with different people having different answers.
Science has no answers and basically does the same as placing a god behind it, but in seemingly objective language. There simply are no principles governing us or the universe.

Processes are not isolated, and a stone thrown seems to move reversibly, without one being able to say which direction time goes. In reality, there exist practically no reversible processes. Is there really a track leading us? There is only one path! That's the path given to us by our Divine Creator! Praise His Name, and, brothers and sisters of the holy sanctuary, let's hold hands and pray rejoicefully to the Rightful and Wise, blissfully acknowledging to be grateful of the Golden Light He allows us to bathe in!

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Well how do I choose? Today I chose healthy: a tasty vegetable stir fry. Was this random? — Kenosha Kid

True random choices are impossible to make, I think, though I have a vague recollection of someone who claimed he had found a mental procedure, though I doubt now he was right.

The will is a determined one. Will can't exist without determination. Determination doesn't rob the will from its freedom. The determined action of a will can impair the will of fellow men though. It's in this context that we can speak of a free will, or a free wont.

don't know their significance, why we should be paying attention to them. — T Clark

In Mondriaan's depiction of the man and the wife, only two orthogonal black lines are used, horizontally and vertically. The frame is rotated 45 degrees. If we conceptually reconstruct it, we need to use verticallity only. The painting is conceptually reconstructed:

-Two black lines, one vertically, Man, one antivertically, Woman.
-Woman and Man shake the boundaries. The house containing them ain't big enough for the both of them.
-Man and Woman push each other into the corner, mutually orthogonal.
-Convexity is absent.

Can we apply verticallity to poetry or music?

Or something very like them, along with general relativity or something very like it, along with the particular boundary conditions of our universe. At least, the idea hasn't been contradicted, and has been verified in all conceived and possible tests (out of-the-gaps window of opportunity). — Kenosha Kid

And probably eternal in both time directions. But... does this stuff determine us? Is our will determined by it? Is there a natural law keeping us by the balls. If you consider my wife a natural law, then yes. But a real existing law, like a god? Like genes playing puppeteers of our body, as I once saw depicted? This exists in the mind only.

John Hunt ("Bringing God up to Date") writes:

"The meaning is exactly what it says. What’s the problem? The woman's punishment for improperly touching a man who was not her husband is to have her hand cut off.

By 21st century standards of human rights, gender equality etc (broadly speaking, at least, Christianity is still backwardly patriarchal, particularly in the RC church, Greek Orthodox and evangelical Christianity) the customs of the time were barbaric. The Hebrews as much as any, if not more so - Assyrian (1100 BC) law for instance says that the punishment for a woman if she injures a man's testicle during a quarrel is just to have her finger amputated, rather than the whole hand."

Just a finger cut off. While she rescued her man...

The question is like asking if the stomach has a free will to be hungry or is it determined to be hungry. — Yohan

That's another question, I think. Is the stomach driven by external will or internal will? All will evolves. Some wills have a lust for power and constrain other forms of will. I think it's that what makes will free, not if they are determined by deterministic abstract entities apart from them, like a natural law or God.

If the principle of least action and the second law of thermodynamics derive from the five postulates of QM, what is making those postulates manifest in reality? And so on... — Kenosha Kid

Even if we are determined sums over histories, and if bound systems could be described non-perturbatively, or if some truly fundamental particles were found, do the laws of qft govern us? From where operate operators creating, destroying, or propagating? Is it not us doing this, wrongly assuming this happens in nature?