"Is all of space one big excitation of fields?" :lol: — Hillary

Again, just to try again, to encourage you to be more accurate!
I actually asked 'is all of space one big field of excitations?' :razz:

Many do agree. There are upvotes from two acknowledged physics professors. Book writers. And what about Harari? The problem with experts is that the ones who trust them dint know much about it.. Only when you know what they think you can truly attack them. The layman, like you, just has to trust... which never has been a good base, lemme tellya. — Hillary

Two people and a nice note from Harari is not 'many.'
There are levels of laypeople. I am not a physicist. I got an A at higher grade but failed the physics exam at the end of my 1st year Uni course. I also failed the resit and had to carry a different Ist year uni subject into 2nd year but I aced that so well, that I got an exemption from the final exam at the end of 2nd year. I have progressed my physics since then based on my own studies and some online courses I have completed on edx.org since retiring.

Why dont you start learning actual physics? — Hillary

I am quite happy with my current grasp of physics, if my life direction means I need a better grasp then I will get a better grasp.

"Is all of space one big excitation of fields?" :lol: — Hillary

'Photons are not absorbed' :rofl: and you are supposed to understand physics much better than I do.
'Dino gods!, every extinct species has a surviving god!, people gods and insect gods!' :lol: :rofl: and you are suppose to be a logician with a good grasp of physics!!

but what if you seek justice because someone killed your family? — SpaceDweller

This can be problematic in a 'one system fits all' justice system. If you kill then the system will kill you.
What if a person considered their family a bunch of evil b******* who deserved to die. Perhaps they will seek to reward the killer rather than seek punishment. Can the justice system rely on the statement of opinion from the surviving family member and reward the killer as he/she wishes?

Your imagination for punishment methods is funny — SpaceDweller

You have a strange sense of humour and I think your viewpoints on a balanced human system of justice is more driven by revenge than it is by rehabilitation. I remain conflicted between the two but I would fight vehemently against any system based on competing extremities of punitive evils.

But J do know. Particles are no points, but tiny higher dimensional spheres, filled with charge or transporting energy and momentum, like photons. Or carrying metric of spacetime metric. Or carrying energy and momentum and color or electric charge. Or supercolor charge There are 7 basic charges and all couple to the virtual fields, the quantum vacuum, ti interact. Space is made of virtual particles, in a sense. Real particles couple to it to interact. Coupling to the virtual graviton field causes spacetime to curve (graviton condensate) — Hillary

I think many physicists can shoot so many holes in your above arguments that there is little left of any value.

Or take the approach to all of life. What about locking up animals in a cage to see what happens if an A-bomb explosion? Suits the scientist well, not to think evil truly exists. Atheism is a freepass to investigate without the ethics proposed by theism, say torturing animals. Life is not considered sacred anymore, i.e., having evolved on a substrate-reality, made by the gods — Hillary

:rofl: Yeah, in history, theists have treated animals very well, in-between sacrificing them and looking at their entrails to figure out what your gods want them to do next :rofl:
I find most atheists more ethical than most theists. The bible supports slavery and sees women as of less value to men and on and on it goes. All religious texts contain morally reprehensible suggestions.

↪universeness

You consider the many worlds in the MWI real? — Hillary

I have answered this a few times now. I refer you back to those answers.

One can believe in it if one chooses to ignore experts who dissent against it.
— universeness

Exactly — Hillary

I for one choose absolutely not to!

What do you mean if you say the fluctuation is real? Isn't that even weirder? Virtual, in this context and in my humble opinion, just means not on mass-shell. You know what on mass-shell means? It's pretty unreal! — Hillary

No, at this point, I don't know what on mass-shell means but from wiki:

In physics, particularly in quantum field theory, configurations of a physical system that satisfy classical equations of motion are called "on the mass shell" or simply more often on shell; while those that do not are called "off the mass shell", or off shell.

I am aware of the classical equations of motion such as speed=distance/time etc

In quantum field theory, virtual particles are termed off shell because they do not satisfy the energy–momentum relation; real exchange particles do satisfy this relation and are termed on shell (mass shell).
In classical mechanics for instance, in the action formulation, extremal solutions to the variational principle are on shell and the Euler–Lagrange equations give the on-shell equations. Noether's theorem regarding differentiable symmetries of physical action and conservation laws is another on-shell theorem

I am not familiar with 'the action formulation,' 'the variational principle,' 'the Euler-Lagrange equations,' 'Noether's theorem' etc but I have often suggested that you look to qualified physicists to debate your more detailed academic physics musings with.
I don't accept your physics viewpoints because many physicists disagree with you as has been demonstrated on quora.

the quantum vacuum is filled with fluctuations? — Hillary

I know, we have descriptions such as:
In quantum physics, a quantum fluctuation (also known as a vacuum state fluctuation or vacuum fluctuation) is the temporary random change in the amount of energy in a point in space, as prescribed by Werner Heisenberg's uncertainty principle. They are minute random fluctuations in the values of the fields which represent elementary particles, such as electric and magnetic fields which represent the electromagnetic force carried by photons, W and Z fields which carry the weak force, and gluon fields which carry the strong force. Vacuum fluctuations appear as virtual particles, which are always created in particle-antiparticle pairs. Since they are created spontaneously without a source of energy, vacuum fluctuations and virtual particles are said to violate the conservation of energy. This is theoretically allowable because the particles annihilate each other within a time limit determined by the uncertainty principle so they are not directly observable

But this is a MODEL of what is going on within the 'broiling' vacuum of space.
It's certainly true, that it is completely wrong, to try to suggest there is a point of spacial existence where absolutely nothing is happening, no activity at all.

Science currently has very very very little knowledge of what is actually going on in the vacuum of space. Particles probably don't exist in the traditional point particle or small free, disconnected spherical forms we have envisaged in the past. They probably are field excitations and 'Virtual particles' are just some form of field excitation we really don't understand. Just like we don't understand phenomena such as quantum tunneling.
Our understanding of quantum physics is still at an infantile stage.
Your claim that you have solved the greatest mystery we have is just that, an individual's claim.
One can believe in it if one chooses to ignore experts who dissent against it.

Let''s keep the gods out of it. Concentrate on the science. What you suggest is that because I posit gods, my physics is not to be trusted. Think about it! — Hillary

All that you are influences all that you do and say! You will not escape that, ever!

If institutionalized, yes. In the US it is still allowed. A humane lethal injection. Without pain. You just fall asleep. I sign for it.. — Hillary

Capital punishment by lethal injection does not fit the kind of deterrent punishments suggested by @SpaceDweller. My dialogue was about his suggestions for a future human justice system.
Any capital punishment runs the risk of executing someone who is later found to have been innocent. I remain conflicted on the issue of capital punishment for the more extreme crimes.
I have a lot of sympathy for the viewpoint 'better that all the guilty remain alive, than one innocent is executed by mistake.'

That's how they created the universe — Hillary

:roll:

that's because there are like I said, — universeness

That's so annoying to me! I proofread twice and that still got past me (now corrected!)

There are so-called experts who say virtual particles are real — Hillary

I accept that many 'experts' assign a form of 'existence' to virtual particles but I dont think many of them would use the term REAL for VIRTUAL particles as used in perturbation theory.
From wiki:

A virtual particle is a transient quantum fluctuation that exhibits some of the characteristics of an ordinary particle, while having its existence limited by the uncertainty principle. The concept of virtual particles arises in the perturbation theory of quantum field theory where interactions between ordinary particles are described in terms of exchanges of virtual particles. A process involving virtual particles can be described by a schematic representation known as a Feynman diagram, in which virtual particles are represented by internal lines.

Virtual particles do not necessarily carry the same mass as the corresponding real particle, although they always conserve energy and momentum. The closer its characteristics come to those of ordinary particles, the longer the virtual particle exists. They are important in the physics of many processes, including particle scattering and Casimir forces. In quantum field theory, forces such as the electromagnetic repulsion or attraction between two charges can be thought of as due to the exchange of virtual photons between the charges. Virtual photons are the exchange particle for the electromagnetic interaction.

The term is somewhat loose and vaguely defined, in that it refers to the view that the world is made up of "real particles". It is not. "Real particles" are better understood to be excitations of the underlying quantum fields. Virtual particles are also excitations of the underlying fields, but are "temporary" in the sense that they appear in calculations of interactions, but never as asymptotic states or indices to the scattering matrix. The accuracy and use of virtual particles in calculations is firmly established, but as they cannot be detected in experiments, deciding how to precisely describe them is a topic of debate.] Although widely used, they are by no means a necessary feature of QFT, but rather are mathematical conveniences - as demonstrated by lattice field theory, which avoids using the concept altogether

We get to know each other, brother zuni! Flowers of death... — Hillary

Flowers of death are all the human race will have to offer each other if our justice system becomes one that desires vengeance based on competitive evil.
Anyone who desires a punishment deterrent based on being more evil than the evil perpetrated on victims by evil people, are asking for a dystopian society.

Well, a few weeks maybe.. — Hillary

Yeah, that's what I figured you would say! :flower: :death:
We can always say 'sure' to you, 'we will release you in time.' :halo:

Sorry universeness, but here you are parroting the so-called experts. Not observable doesn’t mean virtual. We can imagine them. — Hillary

Your use of the term 'parroting' is a rather simplistic and unsuccessful attempt to dissuade people from listening to experts. A sinister but easily defeated tactic normally employed by the likes of Donald Trump and his supporters. As you say, you can only imagine virtual particles, that's because they are, like I said, not real and merely part of mathematical modeling, and yes, that's what the EXPERTS say.
Repeating what the experts say is a more reliable path to follow than repeating what you say about gods.

The moment you try to observe them, they become one of the external legs in Feynman diagrams and then they are not virtual anymore. So in a sense, the assumption that they are virtual is a hallucination, a dogma — Hillary

Was that how you created your gods? Did you try to observe them and then did you draw an external god leg in a Feynman diagram and then publish that scientific paper to the world as proof at last that gods exist? Has that paper been published and peer-reviewed yet?

Is that supposed to be a punishment? How lovely it would be to be just buried, get your food and drink, and just lay back... only the pile of excrements will gonna be smelly.. — Hillary

You can always volunteer to be the first to try out the punishment! I certainly wont volunteer.

Absolutely not. I think resorting to evil to to deal with evil as a general approach is stunted and just smacks of a person who is aroused by and interested in abject cruelty. — Tom Storm

It's always nice to hear a logical voice of reason and rationality break through the din of irrational thinking Tom. :100: :clap: :party:

to prevent such evil punishment must be severe — SpaceDweller

Is this not just some humans trying to be more brutal or evil towards those who have committed the most evil acts? The way to stop someone from being evil, is to threaten them with an evil more evil that their evil. All you do with that approach imo is to create competition amongst those who are evil.

Here is an example someone came up with as a punishment for those who commit the most evil acts in our modern society. It starts with an old idea.

They are placed alive in the same coffin as one or more of their victims. But they will be constrained to an apparatus around the body of, but they will not be able to touch their victim. There will be various illuminations, recording equipment and some worms and bugs etc included in the coffin, which will be buried at the traditional depth.
The killer will be naked and have two tubes down their throat and they will have a small breather unit connected to their nose, which will not close off their ability to smell. These will be connected to an automated system outside of the grave.
This system will maintain the life of the killer by force-feeding them food and water. any waste produced will just add to the punishment. They will have to watch the deterioration of their victim as well as feel the result of that deterioration move towards themselves. This process will be filmed to study the killer's descent into probable madness. These recordings will then be used to scare other potential offenders. Do you approve of this idea or do you think this shows that hell, horror and terror are only limited by what a human imagination can perceive? I am sure someone could come up with an even worse punishment than this quite disturbing suggestion. Do you really think that encouraging competitive evil is the way forward for a future human justice system?

Evil can be chased away only with incense — SpaceDweller

I thought I may as well ask you about this one as well.
Are you suggesting that if I was an evil deranged serial killer in the house of my next intended victim and I was ready to strike, that I may be dissuaded from my evil act if my intended victim lit some incense?
Certain smells can cause evil to run away in fear? Is that what you are suggesting?

It's the winter of human kind — Hillary

Thank goodness for drops in temperature or life would just be too hot to live.
I love the winter, (snow, snowballs, wearing thick warm clothing, its good to know cold as it allows you to enjoy the experience of getting warm. Too warm can be good as well as you can enjoy a really cold beer much more than you can in the winter)

What has become if us? — Hillary

We are still here! hi hillary! :smile:

What made us blind? — Hillary

Nefarious b******* who poke you in the eye too much, staring at the Sun without proper protection, medical conditions that science hasn't found a solution to YET, GO TRANSHUMANISM!!

Panpsychism — Hillary

Are you a polytheistic panpsychist?
Panpsychism does not suggest the fundamental building blocks of consciousness are inherently good or evil. Compare tasting each ingredient of a cake and then taste the cake, would you say the cake tastes good or evil? based on how good or evil each ingredient tasted?

If by existence you refer to the devil or the devil tempting people to do evil then I would rather say that this is spiritual existence of evil.
but otherwise evil is product of people rather than thing or a being which could exist — SpaceDweller

Could evil exist as a quantum field or as a consequence of subatomic interactions or as opposite magnetic poles such as positive and negative attractions, as proposed by @Hillary?

Why would evil be scared of torture? is evil not masochistic? Why would evil be afraid of one of its own manifestations? That of torturing others.
— universeness
Torture is more effective than laws because one is less likely to commit evil works knowing the consequence — SpaceDweller

But my question was why do you think pure undiluted evil could be defeated by torturing it?

Yes because punishment for evil in earlier times was more adequate than it is today. — SpaceDweller

So what forms of earlier punishments would you recommend bringing back?
Would you bring back the death penalty for all evil acts or just some and how do you prevent the death of the small minority, who are later discovered to be innocent?

To deal with evil we have laws but laws do not stop more evil and new kinds of evil — SpaceDweller

So human laws that deal with human evils which have been labeled as such by other humans.
So do you agree that evil does not exist as a fundamental force/power outside of sentient lifeforms?
Do you think evil has a metaphysical existence?

Evil can be chased away only with incense and torture — SpaceDweller

Why would evil be scared of torture? is evil not masochistic? Why would evil be afraid of one of its own manifestations? That of torturing others.

but issue is that evil today has run out of control not by amount of evil but rather by count of people tolerating evil. — SpaceDweller

Compared to all times past? Compared to early tribal cultures? Compared to during the holocaust?

Quick & Painless Morte! — Agent Smith

Exactamundo! Try getting @hillary to appreciate all that science has done for him :roll:
He is an ungrateful little tyke of a polytheist! :rofl:

That's not the question. It's a fact — Hillary

:roll: Are we back to your electrons (evil as negatively charged), antielectrons or positrons (good as positively charged) Does the fact that its the ANTIelectron that's positively charged not mess up your pure conjecture? ANTIchrist is evil after all! And another thing is the antichrist not just Jesus' mother's sister. If she was Mary Christ then her sister would be Jesus' anti by relation (or is my spelling wrong? :rofl: )
I can hear the conversation in the christ household now!
Jesus: Now listen ma! you cant invite your sister, i know she is my anti but she is evil, Satan spawn!
Mary: BUT SHES MA SISTER! you little spoiled brat!

War is caused by humans, off course. But there are different means for waging it. Based on science it turns into pure evil — Hillary

Oh I don't know so much! If I knew for sure a nuclear war was coming I would try to stand right where the ICBM lands. Very quick death! Much nicer than getting chopped to pieces by swords wielded by mental Romans in the past. The vast majority of all humans will dies very quickly in a full nuclear exchange, thanks to Science!
For most victims, nuclear war offers a quicker death than conventional war.

Evil, there seems little doubt that it's real/it exists — Agent Smith

But the question is does it exist as a 'force of evil,' outwith the human condition or/and outside of the sentient experiences of any lifeform?

War is hate! And the way its performed nowadays, caused by science and its mive away from nature. — Hillary

War is caused by humans but so is peace and nature invokes science through the human tendency to ask qustions.
In the film Spartacus with Kirk Douglas.
He explains to his love interest Lavinia that he hates war. She asks what he wants from life and he says he wants to know things like where the wind comes from. She tells him that the wind comes from a god who blows into the world from a cave. He laughs at this suggestion (thankfully).
My worry is that if you read Lavinia's story of where the wind comes from you might suggest to others that her story may in fact have been true, originally, as the first cause of all wind but now that god just lives in heaven beside his dinogod chums and is entertained by watching us. :rofl:

Love kills! We wouldnt have been here if that didnt happen! — Hillary

Yeah ooooookkkkaaayyyyy! If we go extinct by full nuclear war then, that will be a godly act of Universal love in your mind. After all, according to you, love kills.

I understand your hope, and I agree there is a distinct lack of allegiance as such to the British monarchy in Australia. But I honestly don’t think we’re there yet. Our representatives still too often operate as if the ‘adult supervision’ has simply left the room, and I think they prefer the sense that if it does go pear-shaped there’s still a ‘grown-up’ around. I’d like to think we can get to the point where we don’t need that, but unfortunately I don’t believe that time is now. The ‘grown up’ is little more than a stabilising reference point or an empty threat at this stage, but it’s still useful as such. — Possibility

Well, the recent victory of Anthony Albanese may change things in Australia for the better.
He is already talking about a referendum on the monarchy!

Reaching out to attract is love. Reaching out to repel is hate, the bad, the evil — Hillary

So two attracting poles of magnets love each other! :lol:
The asteroid that was attracted to Earth and wiped out the dinosaurs was an act of Universal love? :lol:
Your attempts to anthropomorphise observed scientific phenomena and conflate them with human labels such as good and evil is at best, entertaining.

A point particle is the biggest mass hallucination in history. — Hillary

No, I think that dubious honour belongs to god posits!

Consider the virtual particles elastic strings all over space. Two charged particles interact by coupling both to a string. It breaks up and resembles the curvy line in a Feynman diagram. It delivers the right energy and momentum to both electrons (which is easy since it has all of them!). In the mathematical expression for the associated Feynman diagram this is accomplished by Dirac deltas which pick out the right energy and momentum value (or, in the position representation, the Fourier transform, the right times and position; that's why QFT in phasespace is perfect!). The photon, after the electrons have couple ld, decouples and returns to it's closed form, the "virtual" elastic string. A single electron continuously couples to a whole bunch of them. An electric potential is established. The elastic strings continuously break up, reach out, and return to the vacuum. — Hillary

You really need to have this discussion with qualified physicists. From a layperson's viewpoint, you need to explain what you mean by 'interact by coupling' (the word coupling is used in many different ways.)
'coupling to a string,' makes even less sense from someone who does not advocate string theory!

Elon Must
— universeness

Nice one! Like 10 000 tears... :lol: — Hillary

Yeah, I edited that typo! and one of my favourite phrases is 10000 YEARS OF tears, not 10000 tears.

Already on the fundamental level, good and bad exist. Attractive forces and repulsive forces. Positively charged particles and negatively charged. Particles and antiparticles. In my cosmology there is as much matter as antimatter. A balance of good and bad — Hillary

How many other opposites do you conflate with the human labels good and evil.
You have used
positive/negative or attractive/repulsive
particle/antiparticle or matter/antimatter.

In what way do these differ from
push/pull, up/down, backwards/forwards, big/small, male/female, black/white etc?

Good and evil have no such associations.

Between Scylla and Charybdis. Right! — Agent Smith

You know much more about mythology than I do agent smith. I had to go to google again.
Thank goodness for the google search engine. I would not understand most of the references people use here on TPF without it. Its such a vital tool imo to try to understand the viewpoints of others:
Wiki offered:

"Being between Scylla and Charybdis is an idiom deriving from Greek mythology, which has been associated with the proverbial advice "to choose the lesser of two evils". Several other idioms, such as "on the horns of a dilemma", "between the devil and the deep blue sea", and "between a rock and a hard place" express similar meanings. The mythical situation also developed a proverbial use in which seeking to choose between equally dangerous extremes is seen as leading inevitably to disaster"

My, my what a pleasant day today is. — Agent Smith

You know I have difficulty understanding your 'true' state of mind from the enigmatic style of words you employ. Are you actually having a pleasant day today?

What if the other option is Donald Trump? — Agent Smith

:lol: What a choice! :rage: :broken:
My only option in that circumstance would be to seek a third way.
I remember my exchange with 'Nikolas Gaspar,' regarding the choice between dropping the two A-bombs on Japan and the alternative or (probably even more horrific) invading Japan to end the war.
Any kind of 'Sophies choice,' scenario is horrific but I don't think the only two choices available to the human race for who can develop and wield current and future human tech is Elon Musk or The big orange balloon of Donald Trump. I hear the calls of caution from @Athena when it comes to how the human race employs tech. I suggest we don't allow F***wits such as Elon Musk or Donald Trump any significant influence in the area.

Btw, have you seen what they did what the question on stack exchange? They closed it. Do I have to say more? — Hillary

I just clicked on the physics stack exchange link to the post you are referring to. You had provided a link to it earlier in a PM. I got the following message:

Page not found
This question was voluntarily removed by its author.

Please explain!

You'll make it to transhuman. In fact, you already are — Hillary

Aw, thanks! Its nice of you to see me as an advanced human but my modestly must insist you are being too complimentary :blush:

Btw, have you seen what they did what the question on stack exchange? They closed it. Do I have to say more? — Hillary

Do they give you their reason?

Aint the judgement part of the universe? You might say it's a feature caused by evolution, to whatever nonsensical woowoo purpose, but then you take away it's fundamental existence and replace it by your own interpretation. — Hillary

Everything which is 'part' of the Universe does not permeate the entire Universe or else the word 'local' would have no meaning. A human judging a particular act of another human as evil is a local subjective judgment and the act involved, that is being judged, is not a consequence of, or a manifestation of, a fundamental force of evil that exists objectively, separately, and universally.

BS — Hillary

What are you calling BS. The fact my eyes work or the fact that you value your dreams as a source of a commlink with the supernatural?

Open your eyes! — Hillary

My visual sensors work fine and provide real input, unlike the 'dreams' based input you assign significant value to.

Again, you are reifying what people do
— Banno

Where? I place evil inside the universe and ask how or if to deal with it — Hillary

It's what humans judge as evil behavior or evil acts performed by other humans.
That's how the human label 'evil' manifests or exemplifies.
Evil has no objectively real existence as a fundamental part of the Universe.
That's just more supernatural woo woo BS!

Again, you are reifying what people do; that strikes me as a poor way of approaching the problem. — Banno

:up: :clap: :100:

Wow, thank you for being so supportive. I work and I have every little energy so I have not done all those things yet, but I am working on them. I devoted today to following the steps that the hospital told me to follow, before calling in the big guns.

In the past, I took my social concerns directly to the newspaper and almost always got my letters to the editor printed, but the locally own paper was sold and the staff is out of town and very different from the past! In the past, I have also taken concerns to the local and state levels of public hearings. I had a lot more fire and energy back then and I miss my working relationship with the newspaper.

After failing to make progress with the medical facility I have asked for help from a local synagogue and I am waiting for a reply. I forgot about the Human Rights Commission, and thanks to you, I bookmarked the Commission page and have called and left a message. I hate confrontation, but with the support, you have given me and my sister pointing out how damaging that experience was to his effort to get counseling, I am willing to do as much as my time and energy allow me to do. — Athena

It is all of us who have to thank you, your sister and your like for being the brave, vital front-line warriors for good that you sound like you are. You connect with many more people than you realise, which is why your 99% figure seemed too high to me.
I would not like to be in the shoes of the moronic counselor you describe. The Jewish community are known for producing many lawyers for example. I would write to one or two of their legal groups as well.
You only need one of those to feel angry at how your friend was discriminated against to start legal proceedings against the company/group that employs this counselor on a no win no fee basis. You should also cite those who tried to obstruct your ability to complain. I probably don't have to tell you to retain every piece of evidence you can including on those who are trying to hinder you. I hope some 'energetic' people volunteer to support you and help you do some of the groundwork involved.
If I lived in the same country as you, I would volunteer my time and effort, free of charge to help in any way I could. There must be plenty of folks nearer to you who would do the same.
Thank you again for your fight for human equality of treatment and respect, regardless of ethnicity or national identity. ALL POWER TO YOU! And please always remember YOU are part of the solution and NOT part of the problem.