• The Last Word
    ↪Posty McPostface
    Burger!
  • The Vengeful Mother
    I have 2 ex wives and 4 ex children, and I cannot even try to imagine what Nietzsche, Kant, Schopenhauer might have to say about it.

    Some of the things that an ex can get away with are incredible.
  • Profound Parables.
    Does this parable apply to groups who have been injured by the policies of others? — Bitter Crank

    Yes, it certainly does. There are so many groups that have been damaged by both ignorant political policies and biased religious stupidity.

    And most of the time it is only the innocent that suffer the consequences.
  • Profound Parables.
    A girl goes to the beach with her family and takes photos walking on along the shore with her dad to upload to farcebook. Everyone criticizes her for hanging on to daddy when there are a bunch of hunks in the background.

    She takes some photos of herself with a couple of the hunks and herself in a very skimpy bikini. Everyone screams that she is acting indecently wearing that bikini in front of her family and flirting with people she does not know.

    She puts clothes back on to cover up and takes a photo to upload. Everyone jumps all over her saying she looks stupid because she is supposed to be enjoying the sun on the beach.

    She lifts her middle finger to the camera and uploads the final pic.
    Caption
    "I now understand that it is impossible to make everyone happy on farcebook, so I am not even going to try.
    Screw the lot of you."
  • Bannings
    ↪Baden
    Awe, shucks!
    What a shame.
  • Worthy! Most worthy is the Philosopher
    It's Alfred North Whitehead, of course, — InternetStranger

    I wondered why I had not heard it before, because that is not what was said. Again you have quoted incorrectly.

    "The safest general characterization of the European philosophical tradition is that it consists of a series of footnotes to Plato. I do not mean the systematic scheme of thought which scholars have doubtfully extracted from his writings. I allude to the wealth of general ideas scattered through them. His personal endowments, his wide opportunities for experience at a great period of civilization, his inheritance of an intellectual tradition not yet stiffened by excessive systematization, have made his writing an inexhaustible mine of suggestion. ... "


    Slightly less obvious is that Plato was the great synthesizer of the early Greeks, the first to bring it all together, and, more importantly perhaps, the first philosopher that we have more or less in his total output. — InternetStranger

    It is also pretty well known that a lot of the work that has been attributed to Plato was not actually written by him but was attributed to him because the author was unknown and the style of writing was similar to his.
  • Worthy! Most worthy is the Philosopher
    http://www.iep.utm.edu/academy/

    From the above link, but also available through other sources.

    "Sextus Empiricus enumerates five divisions of the followers of Plato. He makes Plato founder of the first Academy, Aresilaus of the second, Carneades of the third, Philo and Charmides of the fourth, Antiochus of the fifth. Cicero recognizes only two Academies, the Old and the New, and makes the latter commence as above with Arcesilaus. In enumerating those of the old Academy, he begins, not with Plato, but Democritus, and gives them in the following order: Democritus, Anaxagoras, Empedocles, Parmenides, Xenophanes, Socrates, Plato, Speusippus, Xenocrates, Polemo, Crates, and Crantor. In the New, or Younger, he mentions Arcesilaus, Lacydes, Evander, Hegesinus, Carneades, Clitomachus, and Philo (Acad. Quaest. iv. 5). If we follow the distinction laid down by Diogenes, and alluded to above, the Old Academy will consist of those followers of Plato who taught the doctrine of their master without mixture or corruption; the Middle will embrace those who, by certain innovations in the manner of philosophizing, in some measure receded from the Platonic system without entirely deserting it; while the New will begin with those who relinquished the more questionable tenets of Arcesilaus, and restored, in come measure, the declining reputation of the Platonic school."

    This might interest you as well, although I doubt that what it says really shows that his model of education is used much today.
    http://infed.org/mobi/plato-on-education/
  • Worthy! Most worthy is the Philosopher
    Recall the famous word concerning Plato — InternetStranger

    No, I don't recall ever hearing that. Do you have a link to the source?
  • Worthy! Most worthy is the Philosopher
    It was the model for the West. Greater familiarity with the great thinkers of the west is the best way to prove this to yourself. — InternetStranger

    Try doing some reading yourself. Academy comes from the name of the place where Plato taught. I have not seen many classes being given in public gardens.

    "the classical Academy," properly the name of the public garden where Plato taught his school, "
    https://www.etymonline.com/word/academy?ref=etymonline_crossreference

    The fact that the word was later adopted to mean schools does is not the equivalent of "meaning" Plato's academy. And as the link I gave pointed out, it was mostly used for theoretical studies not practical research.

    Lyceum has a more profound affect on people today, that was where Aristotle taught.
    https://www.etymonline.com/word/lyceum?ref=etymonline_crossreference
  • Worthy! Most worthy is the Philosopher
    Remember, the word academic means Plato's Academy, — InternetStranger

    Wrong, it does not.
    https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=academic+

    And his was not the first Acadēmicus either. Just because its common modern used goes back to him does not mean that he came up with the idea of academies.

    which is the bowels of all universities on the earth, and all their research programs. — InternetStranger

    Which is sort of like calling universities shit.

    Questioning is human. — InternetStranger

    If you count inquisitive as questioning, I have a very philosophical 3 month old pup. She has toured the house, poked at, bitten at, licked, and rubbed against every single thing she can reach to find the best place to take a nap. That was some serious dog style questioning.
  • Worthy! Most worthy is the Philosopher
    Some people want the glory of being called philosopher but they don't want to put in the hard work to get there. — Jeremiah

    Right.
    As I said earlier, most people don't want to work that hard. Why should they question things that will bring them no benefit?

    Lots of people do some philosophic text reading and then quote pieces of them as if they are gospel, and call themselves philosophers. Most of the time without fully understanding the meaning of what they read. A call to some authority of something is all ways right they think.
  • Worthy! Most worthy is the Philosopher
    You're a fine rhetorician.

    You have a cheep debating tactic.     — InternetStranger

    Pot kettle, kettle pot? I don't remember but I am sure you get the idea.
  • Worthy! Most worthy is the Philosopher
    " I think that's a misguided view and so react negatively when philosophy is portrayed as the study of something superior in some profound sense to life as lived." — InternetStranger

    I think yours views are misguided as well, but I did not react negatively to it. I did not even say that philosophy was a study of something superior.

    Rutherford isolated the nucleus of the atom. He wasn't, however, concerned with its possible applications. He died believing nothing would come of that discovery, and that the release of the energy from the nucleus would not mean much. He gloried in the knowledge for its own sake, i.e., real knowledge. Not "stamp collecting" — InternetStranger

    So what? How big of a percentage of humans stand along side him? Do you think that all humans should be scientists as well?

    Weber in many respects controls the universities today. The notion of the "ideal type" is very powerful. The notion of a "fact value" distinction (which, make no mistake, became powerful through Weber, though it was developed by Simmel and stems from Nietzsche, Hume is only accidentally and retrospectively credited with this because of Kant/Nietzsche) controls the whole academic product and the methodology of each field (just as much and more in the those social sciences were it is explicitly rejected, because it still founds those disciplines in their methodology:, e.g., sociology, ethnology, anthropology and the rest of the Kulturwissenschaften). The systematic expulsion of subjectivity, political science, not political philosophy. — InternetStranger

    Again, so what? what does this have to do with your statement that all humans are philosophers and therefore should practice philosophy?

    Ergo, the point is, philosophy is no other world. — InternetStranger

    Who said it was?

    Think of living in a tribal life of scarcity and without education. Is it not closer to barbarity? — InternetStranger

    Downtown in most big cities you can find street people that are close to being barbarians, is that because of lack of philosophizing?

    Ergo, the raising up is what you are now because of what has been philosophized. — InternetStranger

    You are what you are now because of history, not all of history was philosophy. Come to think of it there were actually very few philosophers through out history.

    Man is not a born philosopher even though he is a born thinker, they are two different things. Science is what has created the screwed up world we live in, why don't we have more scientist to try and straighten it out? Simple, because not everyone is capable of being one. The same goes for philosophy, not everyone is cut out to be one.

    I personally would hate to live in a world where everyone practiced philosophy, we would probably still be the same as in the 12th century.
  • Worthy! Most worthy is the Philosopher
    I'm with Socrates so far as he made the starkly patent truth vocal in propounding that a life that does not inquire is no human life. — InternetStranger

    What he actually said was "The unexamined life is not worth living". Well that was his opinion anyway, I have never seen any evidence to back it up though.

    You do not have to be a philosopher to examine your life, a lot of people simple ask themselves, "am I happy, content with what I have?" then answer "it ain't f*****g worth the work to get any better". Examination done, go back to the telly and six pack and watch football.

    Ergo, all humans are philosophers. — InternetStranger

    Show me how that adds up. From the premises you stated it could just as easily be all humans that don't inquire are not alive. Or not human.
  • Worthy! Most worthy is the Philosopher
    It seems to follow as corollary of philosophy's status as the highest activity vouchsafed to human beings. The rest is "stamp collecting". — InternetStranger

    But most humans are not philosophers, they resist it. That is why I asked why you see it s a duty for people to be philosophers.
  • Worthy! Most worthy is the Philosopher
    Yet, is this not an appalling shirking of one's duty to roar philosophically, and to heroically inquire into what is? — InternetStranger

    For most people a meow is excess work never mind roaring.

    But why do you think of it as a duty? Is there some sort of built-in "ought to" function that controls the inquire process or does it just get switched on when it is convenient?
  • The Last Word
    ↪ArguingWAristotleTiff


    Hi Tiff,

    Sorry I have not been around recently but I have been really busy. I have looked in a few times but I did not want to start participating in anything if I could not continue.

    I hope to have some free time at the end of the month when I have 2 weeks of vacation. Maybe there will be something interesting to post in then.

    See you around
  • deGrasse Tyson, "a disturbing thought"
    What can they do that we cannot? — tim wood

    Come to visit us!

    And the parallel question, what would better thinking for humans look like? — tim wood

    Going to visit them.
  • The Last Word
    No, it is Wednesday.
  • This place is special.
    How long does the probation last? — VagabondSpectre

    Until you have proven yourself or the day after eternity ends, which ever comes first. :rofl:
  • This place is special.
    Ah but I AM awesome, therefore you must know me! — VagabondSpectre

    OK, so now I know you. But that does not mean that you are awesome, I know a lot of idiots as well.

    Let me simply add that it's my very good honor to meet you and you may call me V! — VagabondSpectre

    Well V, if you put it that way I might try to consider you as reasonable. Not awesome yet because you will have to prove your awesomeness. :wink:
    But please don't make any more comments about eloping, things like that give me the shivers. And not the nice ones either. :zip:
  • This place is special.
    An awesome member who is never wrong? — VagabondSpectre

    If I don't know who you are then you cannot be awesome, therefore you are wrong. :cool:
  • This place is special.
    Finally I get recognition. — VagabondSpectre

    Who the hell are you? :confused:
  • Wiser Words Have Never Been Spoken
    To be honest to thyself and to keep an open mind to actually, dare I say, being wrong. — Posty McPostface
  • This place is special.
    To be honest to thyself and to keep an open mind to actually, dare I say, being wrong. — Posty McPostface

    Someone put this in Wiser Words Have Never Been Spoken thread. Oh, hang on and I will do it.

    It is a well known fact that only certain AWESOME members are never wrong(just screwed up). But the rest of us can be and we should recognize the fact.

    I've come to realize that the questions posed here are very personal and intimate to the arguer. — Posty McPostface

    A person's opinions are formed through their way of thinking and the information that they have. Most people don't see the opposing arguments as valid because their mind deals with the information differently and it is difficult to see from someone else's point of view.
    Most people don't try to argue from both sides because it goes against the grain, a religious person for instance will flatly refuse to even think about abortion or euthanasia.
  • Your Favourite Philosophical Books
    I have not done any heavy reading for years, even though I have quite a few books lined up to read or re-read.

    But I have read some lighter stuff and mostly on the humorous side.

    On Bullshit - Harry Frankfurt
    The Humans - Matt Haig
    How to Stop Time - Matt Haig
    Every Time I Find the Meaning of Life - Daniel Klein
    Plato at the Googleplex: Why Philosophy Won't Go Away - Rebecca Goldstein
    Plato and a Platypus Walk into a bar - Thomas Cathcart, Daniel Klein
    Aristotle and an Aardvark Go to Washington - Thomas Cathcart, Daniel Klein

    Not so humorous.
    The Gospel of Philip - Jesus, Mary Magdalene, and the Gnosis of Sacred Union - Jean-Yves Leloup
    The Computer and the Brain - John von Neumann
    Theory and Reality An Introduction to the Philosophy of Science - Peter Godfrey-Smith

    There are a bunch of Richard Dawkins and Carl Sagan I want to re-read as well. When I get the time. :chin:
  • The Social God
    it seemed like a good idea to turn society into God — frank

    If anything I would say that we let society become the puppet master, but not the god.
    Society cannot be seem as a god because the common definition of god usually includes "super natural" and there is no way that you can classify society as super natural.
  • The American Gun Control Debate
    ↪Sapientia
    Talk to the hand.

    Raised_Hand_Emoji.png?9898922749706957214
  • The American Gun Control Debate
    But many gun owners aren't responsible. Is there a way to force them to be so short of threatening to take their guns off them? — Baden

    You do not need to be a gun, or even explosives, collector to be dangerous to your kids. Most parents are careless with house cleaning products that are poisonous or flammable. Lots of parents don't have child protection locks on doors to places that can be harmful to kids.
    But I would like to ask how many of these mass murderers used their family's guns to kill people?

    I know that there have been many accidents and murders with the house protection weapon caused through carelessness or ease of access. But mass murders usually acquire their weapons just for that purpose and most families have no idea they have them.
  • A "Timeless" Moral Code?
    Is there some tiny trace of objective morality that has emanated throughout all cultures in all time periods? — Robot Brain

    Don't hurt the community, the future of it.
  • The American Gun Control Debate
    While an ancient one rises in the East (er... north, form here...) — Banno

    The next big question is
    How far are they going to rise before we all get wiped out in the conflict?
  • The American Gun Control Debate
    Ain't that the truth!

    But then the yanks can be weird sometimes, present company are not counted in that generality. :wink:
  • The Last Word
    ↪Posty McPostface
    You might be a coward, but you are a rooster. Now stand up straight and stop acting like an egg layer.
    And ducks don't cluck either, they quack. It just was not poetically pleasing. :wink:
  • The Last Word
    Ducks cluck.
    Crows crow.
  • The American Gun Control Debate
    No, I would take away the scissors and replace them with guns.

    Of course it should be followed by an explanation! I was only talking about the first thing that you should do.     — Sapientia

    Sorry, but if you would explain instead of getting snarky it might help.
  • The American Gun Control Debate
    If you catch kids running around with scissors, then the first thing that you should do is stop them and take away the scissors. Whose bright idea was it to leave them unsupervised with easy access to scissors? — Sapientia

    You would take away the scissors and explain why they should not do that. Education.

    Taking away the scissors without an explanation is the same as oppression and leads to resentment and frustration, which in turn might lead to violence.
  • The American Gun Control Debate
    The American obsession with guns is not behavioral. — Buxtebuddha

    So obsessive behavior is not behavior, that's news.
  • The American Gun Control Debate
    ↪Baden
    I know all about the battles in education systems, I have talked to many people around the world and they all have the same problems. And I have my own battlefield to get through everyday at work.
  • The American Gun Control Debate
    I've come to the conclusion it's more of a cultural thing though and isn't going to change in the foreseeable. — Baden

    And the only way to change culture (=behavior) is through education.

    Positive behavioral changes do not usually happen by themselves, they take conscious reasoning and control.
    Negative behavioral changes in behavior, unfortunately, do not. Negative behavioral changes are often the results of mindless follow the leader/example type of thing. "Dat's cool, I gonna do dat".
  • The American Gun Control Debate
    They can't even successfully educate people in the basics of reading and arithmatic. — Hanover

    That is why I said "in a couple of generations". They have a long way to go.

    But that problem is not just the American society, that is a world wide problem right now. Many of today's kids do not want to learn.
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