This place is special.

Shawn

One way or another you're here for a reason. Be it to satisfy curiosity, stimulate yourself intellectually, or just enjoy reading some deep thoughts.

After spending time here for about three years, and another near ten years at the old PF, I've come to realize that the questions posed here are very personal and intimate to the arguer. That's just the nature of philosophy. It's not the same thing as a Reddit feed or an average e-mail or even a dry academic conversation. The conversations are one way or another, for good or bad, imbued with psychological import and personal meaning.

That's why I feel as though it is imperative to be vigilant of the multiplicity of thoughts and feelings associated with positions and some such matters.

To be honest, this isn't some subtext or quip on the current leadership or way of dealing with things. I'm quite content with everything as it is, and hope they continue as they do.

However, one hopes as time goes on that one recognizes the logical fallacies that we all make and be more aware of them, and not appeal too heavily on emotions, which inevitably arise. To be honest to thyself and to keep an open mind to actually, dare I say, being wrong. Yet, I feel as though the turnover here is quite high due to this lack of knowledge or sentiment. Think ad hominems, straw manning, and the endless list of other fallacies.

I don't know what else to say. Have at it. Rip this post apart with your sharp and cunning reasoning skills!

Hanover

I couldn't decipher a question here.

_db

After spending time here for about three years, and another near ten years at the old PF, I've come to realize that the questions posed here are very personal and intimate to the arguer. That's just the nature of philosophy. It's not the same thing as a Reddit feed or an average e-mail or even a dry academic conversation. The conversations are one way or another, for good or bad, imbued with psychological import and personal meaning. — Posty McPostface

I agree. It has been my conviction for a while now that philosophy is, fundamentally, an individualistic enterprise. I think that philosophy may not be a noun, but rather is more of an adjective to describe how a collection of ideas influences a person in a significant, overarching way. Philosophy, as Nietzsche pointed out, is autobiography. Before "religion" became associated with a determinate social "thing" (something that has happened relatively recently, in fact), philosophy stood as that personal, individual activity. In some ways, the decline of the recognition of the importance of philosophy coincides with the rise of organized religion. Philosophy lost its esteem as the individualistic, spiritual journey and was replaced by dogmatism, group-think, superstition.

When people fling insults and ignore fallacies, it is because they feel threatened on a personal level. The philosophy they have internalized and used to orient themselves in the world is under fire and must be protected. Insults are conjured up by individuals and are aimed at individuals; they have no place in rational argument.

Shawn

I couldn't decipher a question here. — Hanover

It was just a show of gratitude for maintaining the place. I just hope you can spot any ad hominems and other logical fallacies or personal attacks or have users more actively flag them. Apart from that, not sure what to add.

Shawn

I agree. It has been my conviction for a while now that philosophy is, fundamentally, an individualistic enterprise. I think that philosophy may not be a noun, but rather is more of an adjective to describe how a collection of ideas influences a person in a significant, overarching way. Philosophy, as Nietzsche pointed out, is autobiography. Before "religion" became associated with a determinate social "thing" (something that has happened relatively recently, in fact), philosophy stood as that personal, individual activity. In some ways, the decline of the recognition of the importance of philosophy coincides with the rise of organized religion. Philosophy lost its esteem as the individualistic, spiritual journey and was replaced by dogmatism, group-think, superstition. — darthbarracuda

Yes you raise an important issue perhaps the overarching issue this thread is trying to present. Namely, that there is no incentive to test your own theories or beliefs if they conform to a certain worldview and go along cherry picking evidence or choosing convenient beliefs. I mean, nobody likes being wrong. Maybe apart from the ideal version of a scientist. But, then one wonders, if philosophy is only instrumental to satisfying a psychological need, then what's the effin point of it all so to speak? Isn't that some perverted reductio ad absurdom of the whole enterprise?

When people fling insults and ignore fallacies, it is because they feel threatened on a personal level. The philosophy they have internalized and used to orient themselves in the world is under fire and must be protected. Insults are conjured up by individuals and are aimed at individuals; they have no place in rational argument. — darthbarracuda

What's that the result of, then? Treating philosophy as a way of life or what?

BC

When people fling insults and ignore fallacies, it is because they feel threatened on a personal level. The philosophy they have internalized and used to orient themselves in the world is under fire and must be protected. Insults are conjured up... — darthbarracuda

That, and then there is the fact that we are primates, after all. We have progressed far enough that we don't fling feces at each other, but the urge to fling something unpleasant is still there, and insults are less contaminating that a wad of moist fecal matter in hand.

Philosophers should be more able than most to bear in mind that we are closely related to pan troglodytes whether we like it or not, and the same urges that roil a band of chimpanzees roil us as well--except that OUR list of potential roil-making incidents is far, far longer than the chimps' list.

yatagarasu

↪Bitter Crank

and insults are less contaminating that a wad of moist fecal matter in hand. — Bitter Crank

Most of the time. haha

It still takes a lot for a person to be willing to engage with people you know will start throwing the second you challenge their suppositions. Especially when you wonder if it is even worth your time. You make a good point though. Millions of years of evolution and we still find that urge way too compelling, even among the more 'socialized' ones. We once had stones, now we have nuclear arms. :meh:

TimeLine

That's why I feel as though it is imperative to be vigilant of the multiplicity of thoughts and feelings associated with positions and some such matters. — Posty McPostface

The only way you can is by explaining it. If you are overweight and sitting at home all day doing nothing but eating soft cheese and I said that I went hiking yesterday and spent most of last night stargazing and now terribly sleepy, if you turn around and start attacking me for being a show off and intentionally making you feel shit about yourself, the problem is in you. Its all well and good about utilising the forum to question things important to you, but do it in a way that doesn't force them to feel uncomfortable because it differs from your lifestyle.

I hope that helps.

Shawn

↪TimeLine

I'm sorry TimeLine but I'm afraid the ad hominems aren't going to work.

TimeLine

↪Posty McPostface

:confused:

BC

If you are overweight and sitting at home all day doing nothing but eating soft cheese and I said that I went hiking yesterday and spent most of last night stargazing and now terribly sleepy, if you turn around and start attacking me for being a show off — TimeLine

You do show off in that way.

Shawn

I'm at my limit. I hope I can hand off the baton to someone else. One thing before I go is that the objective/subjective trap is irrelevant to the issue.

Sir2u

To be honest to thyself and to keep an open mind to actually, dare I say, being wrong. — Posty McPostface

Someone put this in Wiser Words Have Never Been Spoken thread. Oh, hang on and I will do it.

It is a well known fact that only certain AWESOME members are never wrong(just screwed up). But the rest of us can be and we should recognize the fact.

I've come to realize that the questions posed here are very personal and intimate to the arguer. — Posty McPostface

A person's opinions are formed through their way of thinking and the information that they have. Most people don't see the opposing arguments as valid because their mind deals with the information differently and it is difficult to see from someone else's point of view.
Most people don't try to argue from both sides because it goes against the grain, a religious person for instance will flatly refuse to even think about abortion or euthanasia.

VagabondSpectre

certain AWESOME members are never wrong — Sir2u

Finally I get recognition.

I don't know what else to say. Have at it. Rip this post apart with your sharp and cunning ~~reasoning~~ lyrical skills! — Posty McPostface

Absolutely my good man!

Reveal

Time lines have changed...
And we've often removed the post,
Since the Puritans got a roast,
When they slandered me in riposte!

If today...
Any mock they should try to stem,
'Stead of slandering in riposte,
Ripostes would slander them!

In olden days, a glimpse of mocking
Was looked on as something shocking.
But now, Rob knows,
Anything goes.

Good posters too who once knew better words
Now only use correcter words
Writing prose.
Anything goes.

If having fast spars you like,
If low bars you like,
If old memes you like,
If thick skin you like,
If BitterCranks you like,
Or me undressed you like,
Why, nobody will oppose.

When ev'ry night the thread that's smart is in-
Truding in prudish hearties it's
Quite the show,
Anything goes.

When future Missus McPostface (God bless her)
Can get the whole farm to "yes" her,
Then, I suppose
Anything goes.

When Hanoverian quips still can hoard en-
Ough funny to make Akanthinos want to
Review his posts,
Anything goes.

The Forum's gone sad today
And good's bad today,
And white's black today,
And right's wrong today,
And that gent today,
They have no sense today,
Once had several chat-o's.

When folks who still hope for enlightenment
Find out we're Unenlightened and
Churlish shmoes
Anything goes.

If Jeremiah can with much dramatics
Instruct Michael in math-a-matics,
Then Jerry shows
Anything goes.

When you hear that Sapi-en-tia standing up
Now earns a Frank landing up-
On his toes,
Anything goes.

Just think of those mocks you've got
And those rocks you've got
And those hues you've got
And those bruise you've got
And those gains you've got
(If any brains you've got)
From those little rodeos.

So if Augustino, with all his throttle,
Can necromance Aristotle,
'Then Rob,Tiff knows
Anything goes!

Keep it light!

Sir2u

Finally I get recognition. — VagabondSpectre

Who the hell are you? :confused:

VagabondSpectre

↪Sir2u

An awesome member who is never wrong?

:chin:

Sir2u

An awesome member who is never wrong? — VagabondSpectre

If I don't know who you are then you cannot be awesome, therefore you are wrong. :cool:

frank

↪VagabondSpectre

That
was
awesome!
:heart:

Shawn

All made possible by @unenlightened...

*Thinks if that was wise to say...*

*Thinks harder...*

*F-k it.*

BC

↪VagabondSpectre

If some people here are bottoms, you're a top! Which you should take as high praise. Posty: If you don't stop to think about it, it won't seem lewd.

Reveal

At words poetic, I'm so pathetic
That I always have found it best,
Instead of getting 'em off my chest,
To let 'em rest unexpressed.

I hate parading my serenading
As I'll probably miss a bar,
But if this ditty is not so pretty,
At least it'll tell you how great you are.

You're the top! You're the Colosseum,
You're the top! You're the Louvre Museum,
You're a melody from a symphony by Strauss,
You're a Bendel bonnet, a Shakespeart sonnet,
You're Mickey Mouse.

You're the Nile, You're the Tow'r of Pisa,
You're the smile on the Mona Lisa.
I'm a worthless check, a total wreck, a flop,
But if, Baby, I'm the bottom,
You're the top!

Your words poetic are not pathetic
On the other hand, boy, you shine
And I can feel after every line
A thrill divine down my spine.

Now gifted humans like Vincent Youmans
Might think that your song is bad,
But for a person who's just rehearsin'
Well I gotta say this my lad:

You're the top! You're Mahatma Ghandi.
You're the top! You're Napolean brandy.
You're the purple light of a summer night in Spain,
You're the National Gall'ry, You're Garbo's sal'ry,
You're cellophane.

You're sublime, You're a turkey dinner.
You're the time of the Derby winner.
I'm a toy balloon that is fated soon to pop.
But if, Baby, I'm the bottom,
You're the top!

You're the top! You're a Ritz hot toddy.
You're the top! You're a Brewster body.
You're the boats that glide on the sleepy Zuider Zee,
You're a Nathan Panning, You're Bishop Manning,
You're broccoli.

You're a prize, You're a night at Coney,
You're the eyes of Irene Bordoni,
I'm a broken doll, a fol-de-rol, a blop,
But if, Baby, I'm the bottom,
You're the top.

You're the top! You're an Arrow collar.
You're the top! You're a Coolidge dollar.
You're the nimble tread of the feet of Fred Astaire,
You're an O'Neill drama, You're Whistler's mama,
You're Camembert.

You're a rose, You're Inferno's Dante,
You're the nose of the great Durante.
I'm just in the way, as the French would say
"De trop, "
But if, Baby, I'm the bottom,
You're the top.

You're the top! You're a Waldorf salad.
You're the top! You're a Berlin ballad.
You're a baby grand of a lady and a gent.
You're an old dutch master, You're Mrs. Aster,
You're Pepsodent.

You're romance, You're the steppes of Russia,
You're the pants on a Roxy usher.
I'm a lazy lout that's just about to stop,
But if Baby, I'm the bottom,
You're the top!

You're the top! You're a dance in Bali.
You're the top! You're a hot tamale.
You're an angel, you simply too, too, too divine,
You're a Botticelli, You're Keats, You're Shelley,
You're Ovaltine.

You're a boon, You're the dam at Boulder,
You're the moon over Mae West's shoulder.
I'm a nominee of the G.O.P. or GOP,
But if, Baby, I'm the bottom,
You're the top!

You're the top! You're the Tower of Babel.
You're the top! You're the Whitney Stable.
By the River Rhine, You're a sturdy stein of beer,
You're a dress from Saks's, You're next year's taxes, '
You're stratosphere.

You're my thoist, You're a Drumstick Lipstick,
You're the foist in the Irish swipstick,
I'm a frightened frog that can find no log to hop,
But if, Baby, I'm the bottom,
You're the top!

VagabondSpectre

If I don't know who you are then you cannot be awesome, therefore you are wrong. :cool: — Sir2u

Ah but I AM awesome, therefore you must know me! We've grazed one-another in the past if I recall correctly. We both seem to post at a slower rate than many others, so it's not that surprising we've never eloped. Let me simply add that it's my very good honor to meet you and you may call me V!

That
was
awesome!
:heart: — frank

I'm very pleased to know you enjoyed it! These things always sound great in my head, which always worries me slightly :)

VagabondSpectre

If some people here are bottoms, you're a top! Which you should take as high praise — Bitter Crank

You always know just what to say to make me swoon :blush:

These lyrics are interesting to actually read. Hearing them sung aloud doesn't allow for their full voluptuous meaning to be appreciated.

And at times anachronistic: "You are cellophane" :lol:

Sir2u

Ah but I AM awesome, therefore you must know me! — VagabondSpectre

OK, so now I know you. But that does not mean that you are awesome, I know a lot of idiots as well.

Let me simply add that it's my very good honor to meet you and you may call me V! — VagabondSpectre

Well V, if you put it that way I might try to consider you as reasonable. Not awesome yet because you will have to prove your awesomeness. :wink:
But please don't make any more comments about eloping, things like that give me the shivers. And not the nice ones either. :zip:

ArguingWAristotleTiff

You do show off in that way. — Bitter Crank

How does what TimeLine shares about the actives of her day make her a "show off? Because it is usually a healthy activity?

By that logic, you would think I am showing off when I share my daily activities of mucking horse shit and tossing bales of hay, as it is just as healthy as hiking, granted the scent is different but the activity is still healthy.

ArguingWAristotleTiff

↪VagabondSpectre

You are an amazing person to take the time to write about us! Thank you for being you! I do hope to get to know you better ~
Tiffers

VagabondSpectre

Well V, if you put it that way I might try to consider you as reasonable. Not awesome yet because you will have to prove your awesomeness. :wink: — Sir2u

How long does the probation last?

:D

But please don't make any more comments about eloping, things like that give me the shivers. And not the nice ones either. — Sir2u

I'll do my best man, but I make no vows. If you look hard enough almost everything can be interpreted as innuendo or double entendre. I will try and keep it light as always, but it's better to risk colorful metaphor than to take no risks at all!

Sir2u

How long does the probation last? — VagabondSpectre

Until you have proven yourself or the day after eternity ends, which ever comes first. :rofl:

VagabondSpectre

You are an amazing person to take the time to write about us! Thank you for being you! I do hope to get to know you better ~
Tiffers — ArguingWAristotleTiff

I revel in the creative exercise (I do need it), and if anyone can get kicks or catharsis out of it then that's a bonus.

See you on the slopes!

TimeLine

You do show off in that way. — Bitter Crank

There was once a lady who literally yelled out profanities to me from her car. I was walking in my sports gear eating an apple. She was sitting in her car eating McDonald's and the traffic had stopped so I crossed the road in front of her as she gave me a deathly stare before yelling out as I was crossing to the laughter of what may have been her daughter. I did nothing.

It is not my fault that she has the problem and it is easy to blame me as being a show off when really, it is just you being pathetic.

frank

↪TimeLine

She probably just wanted you to get out of the street.

TimeLine

↪frank

If that were the case, why scream out 'skinny bitch' with big mac sauce on your face? And besides, the traffic had stopped so it was not like she was going anywhere.

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